Is it objectively meaningful and functionally correct to class Same Sex Attraction as a genuine form of human Sexuality?

[Mudgely]

Only the disordered use of sexuality by heterosexuals increases the risk of STD infections. This line of reasoning needs developing and explaining more fully.

I think the point is that STD’s are not related to sexual orientation, but rather to sexual activity.

 

[John21652]

I think the point is that STD’s are not related to sexual orientation, but rather to sexual activity.

True! The point being that disordered sexual activity increases the risk of disease.
Now, what are the categories of disordered sexual activity again…?

 

[Benadam]

I still say that duck eggs are delicious.

I am unconvinced that talk about violence against the soul is relevant to discussion of primal biological impulses.

 

[Lui]

Only the disordered use of sexuality by heterosexuals increases the risk of STD infections. This line of reasoning needs developing and explaining more fully.

One example: if Catholics gets the HIV virus from a blood transfusion and then have sex with their spouse, they can also infect their spouse with the HIV-virus(since Catholics aren’t allowed to use condoms). Is that a disordered use of sex?

 

[John21652]

One example: if Catholics gets the HIV virus from a blood transfusion and then have sex with their spouse, they can also infect their spouse with the HIV-virus(since Catholics aren’t allowed to use condoms). Is that a disordered use of sex?

Your example is too silly for words.
It wasn’t the sex that introduced the HIV virus into the relationship.

If we follow the logic in your question, then anyone who has a transfusion should, by law, wear a condom during sex, because of the risk of spreading disease. That effectively means, of course, that anyone who has had a transfusion is denied the right to procreate.

Anyway, I do believe that blood is screened for the virus these days!
That’s to protect recipients from the blood of those who carry out disordered sexual practices, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual, which greatly increases the risk of them contracting and passing on diseases.

 

[Mudgely]

Mudgely;8436403:

I still say that duck eggs are delicious.

You must not believe that the human experience of reality is distinct from any other animal. I do, and since I do I believe the reality we experience that they don’t is by definition distinctly human, it follows that it’s there we find the answers that are distinctly human.

The analogy doesn’t work unless it were possible that space shuttles make oranges delicious.
.

Have you ever heard of Tang!

Duck eggs over easy with corned beef and TANG!

What I “must” believe is a bit strong. I will admit to being suspicious of those who would dismiss the experience of animals. There are plenty of stories of bravery, compassion, and love among animals. I’m skeptical of the sense of dominion that comes from some readings of the Bible. The combination of opposable thumbs, language and large cortexes for reasoning and executive ability make us unique on earth. The odds are that there are other life forms who are more “special” than we are, and they might not be carbon based.

 

[Lui]

Your example is too silly for words.
.

If you say so. People who consider homosexuality as a disordered perversion are too dumb for words(not aimed at you).

If we follow the logic in your question, then anyone who has a transfusion should, by law, wear a condom during sex, because of the risk of spreading disease. That effectively means, of course, that anyone who has had a transfusion is denied the right to procreate.

I just wanted to clear up that everybody can get and transmit STD infections and not just gay people.

 

[Mudgely]

True! The point being that disordered sexual activity increases the risk of disease.
Now, what are the categories of disordered sexual activity again…?

Eating shellfish?

 

[Elizabeth502]

If you say so. People who consider homosexuality as a disordered perversion are too dumb for words(not aimed at you).

Just FYI, it is my understanding that John does consider homosexuality to be a disordered perversion. However, he is free to correct me if I am wrong.

(Care to retract your statement, Lui?)

 

[vera_dicere]

Sure, its a “genunine form of human sexuality”, in the same way bi-polar is a genuine form of human mental function.

 

[Lui]

Just FYI, it is my understanding that John does consider homosexuality to be a disordered perversion. However, he is free to correct me if I am wrong.

**(Care to retract your statement, Lui?) **

No, because it wasn’t aimed at him as I clearly stated if you would read my post again. It was aimed at a person who mentioned that within this thread.

 

[John21652]

Just FYI, it is my understanding that John does consider homosexuality to be a disordered perversion. However, he is free to correct me if I am wrong.

(Care to retract your statement, Lui?)

I do indeed, like most people on planet earth do. And, like most people on planet earth, I am able to use words to say and demonstrate so.

 

[Lui]

I do indeed, like most people on planet earth do. And, like most people on planet earth, :

So you consider homosexuality as a disordered perversion? Then I stand by my statement:thumbsup:

Btw, are most people on earth right wing conservatives? I personally don’t know anybody who thinks like that.

 

[Elizabeth502]

So you consider homosexuality as a disordered perversion? Then I stand by my statement:thumbsup:

Btw, are most people on earth right wing conservatives? I personally don’t know anybody who thinks like that.

I don’t know about “most people on earth.” (I know you were addressing, John, by the way. Despite your earlier insinuation in boldface, I’m an excellent reader. ) I, however, do consider homosexual attraction to be a disorder, as does my Church, as do many people who do not consider themselves “right wing conservatives” and do not even have a Church. (Hmmm.) So there are “two people” (John, I) who “think like that.”


Also, I would be concerned only to know people who think one way and have never “known” anybody who thinks differently from themselves.

 

[Lui]

I don’t know about “most people on earth.” (I know you were addressing, John, by the way. Despite your earlier insinuation in boldface, I’m an excellent reader. ) I, however, do consider homosexual attraction to be a disorder, as does my Church, as do many people who do not consider themselves “right wing conservatives” and do not even have a Church. (Hmmm.) So there are “two people” (John, I) who “think like that.”


Also, I would be concerned only to know people who think one way and have never “known” anybody who thinks differently from themselves.

Sorry for busting your bubble but my statement was aimed at this.

Genuine human sexuality starts and ends with heterosexuality.
Homosexuality is a disordered perversion that carries tons of disease and typically a very early death.
Being hereditary has nothing to do with it…drug addiction can be hereditary.

Heterosexuality also carries disease. STD effects everybody. I think you should drop that line of argument.

I thumbed up the second quote.
It doesn’t matter though because I consider everyone who thinks gays are perverted as dumb and have no respect for them. I have many good friends who are gay and they are better people than many gay haters will ever be. I know people who hate gays but I don’t associate with homophobics, racists or other people who discriminate others.

(I live in Germany where gay people aren’t discriminated against. The German foreign Minister is gay.)

 

[Benadam]

Have you ever heard of Tang!

Duck eggs over easy with corned beef and TANG!

But really, no one can deny that there is a fundamentally different mode of awareness that is exclusive to mankind. You don’t deny it or you wouldn’t have mentioned extraterrestrial life or expressed indignation at the thought that we might be special

It’s like man is lonely again like before the fall looking ‘out there’ for a helpmeet.

But there was no helpmeet suitable for Adam,

Hmmm, the breakdown of the marital bond, loneliness, lookin to outer space for a helpmeet, same sex couples taking up the slack enabling…

 

[Elizabeth502]

I consider everyone who thinks gays are perverted as dumb and have no respect for them. I have many good friends who are gay and they are better people than many gay haters will ever be.

Since I’m Christian , I do consider, and must consider anyone who “hates” as having an unacceptable attitude toward other human beings. Your false equivalency is in associating an evaluation of a behavior with “hatred” of the person who engages in the behavior. Alcoholism is also disordered; I can evaluate the behavior negatively without “hating” alcoholics.

I know people who hate gays but I don’t associate with homophobics, racists or other people who discriminate others.

Nor do I.

(I live in Germany where gay people aren’t discriminated against. The German foreign Minister is gay.)

And I live in America where everyone is protected from discrimination and can hold public office, regardless of private behavior. Sounds pretty similar to me.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

I consider everyone who thinks gays are perverted as dumb and have no respect for them. I have many good friends who are gay and they are better people than many gay haters will ever be. I know people who hate gays but I don’t associate with homophobics, racists or other people who discriminate others.

(I live in Germany where gay people aren’t discriminated against. The German foreign Minister is gay.)

I don’t think Gays are perverted, if by that you mean they are necessarily hedonistic, ill mannered sexual predators, who enjoy using people for sex. Its evident that some gay people love each-other. I think most gay people truly believe that their sexual actions are moral, and i understand entirely why they embrace the gay identity, since they think they are merely embracing who they are. I also believe that people should have the legal right to be gay. I also, like you, dislike those who bully, abuse, and discriminate against those who embrace that identity. I have no problem with the idea of their being ministers or circular leaders who happen to have same sex attraction.

However, that does not mean that homosexuality is a sexual identity that everybody should or ought to embrace as a moral lifestyle. I think people should have the legal choice to be gay, but legal does not necessarily mean that such actions are moral in a true objective sense. Gay people believe that sexual identity begins with attraction. Catholic doctrine, on the other-hand, believes that the fundamental meaning of human sexuality begins with your “gender”, and not who you’re attracted to. What you believe about human sexuality is necessarily going to be colored by your philosophical view of human reality as a whole. The fact that it has been become popular to believe that the homosexual lifestyle is just as normal and morally healthy as a heterosexual one, does not truly identify the moral facts, but rather it identifies the fact that society is willing to embrace a sexual ideology which does not conform to traditional beliefs about sexuality.

It is now popular to view any questioning of homosexuality as discrimination akin to racism. However, it is evident to me that black people, of which i am a proud member, are evidently human and are of the same objective value as everybody else, which is the same for every race; and thus any view that suggested that being black was some how a disorder or subhuman was unjustified and prejudice. However the same cannot be said for the moral defense of same sex relationships; since it has not been rationally demonstrated that same sex attraction is not the disorder it appears to be. That you have friends that are gay and that they are nice people, does not prove that homosexuality is normal in the moral sense of the word. The Progress of gay rights is more political than moral. Some of it is good in terms of protecting the gay community from unjust mistreatment from other members of society; on the other-hand, i feel that some its ideology should have no political right such as teaching kids that same sex relationships are “morally” normal. They should make a distinction between legal rights and objective moral rights. Gay rights is mostly pragmatic in nature.

Simply having a different belief about the purpose and meaning of sexuality is not necessarily an expression of discrimination or prejudice and it is not evident to me that gay people have the moral high ground. Neither is it evident to me that same sex attraction is not a disorder of somebodies gender identity; and however unpopular this view may be it appears to me that it is disorder. In fact i feel it would be more honest of the gay community to ask people to be tolerant of their lifestyle choice rather than assert that people are discriminating for disagreeing with the homosexual identity.

You speak of it as being dumb to unjustly discriminate and express irrational hatred, and i agree. However It is equally dumb to except something as moral on the basis that it is popular.

The moral legitimacy of homosexuality is a “belief”; not a fact.

 

[RobbyS]

No, I was referring to race, not culture. There are diseases whose transmissiblity is affected by genetics. HIV is one of those. Sickle Cell is another. Tay Sach. There are some rare muscular dystrophies which are genetic occur primarily among certain nationalities and races. With HIV, in particular, women of African descent have a much higher transmission rate than other racial heritages. Some Asians appear to have an extremely low transmission rate with the same sexual behavior.

HIV has not been studied long enough to establish inheritability of immunity. In any case, epidemics, personal habits usually matter more than inheritance although about has hard to change as blood type.

 

[Hadrianus]

St Thomas Aquinas refers to a sexual attraction to the same sex as the result of a defectu naturae in a given individual. It does not have anything to do with gender identity as such. Sexual desires are not an essential component of human nature. In heaven there will be no sexual desire. On the other hand, gender is permanent.