Is it ok for Muslims to torture Christians?

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"Language of the New Testament:

Jesus spoke Aramaic; therefore the general implication that arises is that his gospel would be in Aramaic, which is very close to Arabic, the language of the Koran. However, all the manuscripts of the present-day New Testament are in Koine Greek. If Jesus spoke Aramaic, why are his gospels in Greek? Why are there gospels in the plural when Jesus spoke of one gospel (Mark 10:29etc.)? Which gospel is the “word of God” since they add or take away from each other and even contradict each other?

There are certain chapters in the Bible that are attributed to different authors, in different periods of history, yet they are 100% identical. This shows that “editors” were at work in manufacturing what would later become the word of God. For example, 2 Kings 19 and Isaiah 37 are identical word by word, sentence by sentence, throughout the whole chapter."
 
Why Bible should not allowed to be read by children?

The Bible & Terror:


There and many other passages in the Bible would get an “X” rating for violence and pornography from even the most lenient and liberal censors as they contain lucid details of sexuality and racially justified killing of “foreigners” (i.e. non-Jews), as commanded by “God”. Consider theses:

Jesus says that he wasn’t sent with peace on earth but with a sword (Matthew 10:34)

Jesus is presented as a baby-killer: “Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he who searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.” (Revelation 2:22-23)

PSALMS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

2KINGS 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KINGS5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

2KINGS 6:29 “So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him,’ but she had hidden him.”

2KINGS 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Horses trample her body. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KINGS 10:7 Jehu has Ahab’s seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KINGS 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab’s kin killed.

2KINGS 10:17 “And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord …”

2KINGS 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KINGS 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KINGS 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the “high places.”

2KINGS 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

2CHRONICLES 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CHRONICLES 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

ISAIAH 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite’s to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

EZEKIEL 6:12-13 The Lord says: “… they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak…”

[continued]
 
Why Bible should not allowed to be read by children?

"EZEKIEL 9:4-6 The Lord commands: “… slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women…”

EZEKIEL 20:26 God commands infanticide? In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves and amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZEKIEL 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZEKIEL 23:25,47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

HOSEA 13:16 The “Lord” says: “They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”

MATTHEW 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

Book of Judges 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

BOOK OF JUDGES 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an ox-goad.

BOOK OF JUDGES 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

BOOK OF JUDGES 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

BOOK OF JUDGES 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

BOOK OF JUDGES 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

BOOK OF JUDGES 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

BOOK OF JUDGES 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

BOOK OF JUDGES 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ***.

BOOK OF JUDGES 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

BOOK OF JUDGES 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

BOOK OF JUDGES 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ “men of valor” from amongst the Benjamites, “men and beasts and all that they found,” and set their towns on fire.

BOOK OF JUDGES 21:10-12 The “Lord” says: “… Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones… Every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy.” They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

The Bible & Women:

“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.” (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

Burning Women:

“And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.” (Leviticus 21:9)

Killing witches:

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.” (Exodus 22:18-20)

Birth of a female child makes a woman unclean longer than the birth of a male child does:

“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be uncleanBut if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.” (Leviticus 12:2-5)

Men rulers and “gods” over women:“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (New Testament, I Corinthians 11:3)

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. " (New Testament, Ephesians 5:22-24)”

(continued)
 
Why Bible should not allowed to be read by children?

"Women created for man:


“For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.” (New, Testament, I Corinthians 11:8-9)

Silencing the woman:

“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (New Testament, I Timothy 2:11-14)

"God" wants to stone women and men:

“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her, then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:24)

"God" rips pregnant women and kills infants, according to the Bible:

“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)

"God" lifts up skirts according to the Bible:

“Look, I am against you!- declares Yahweh Saboath- I shall lift your skirts as high as your face and show your nakedness to the nations, your shame to the kingdoms. I shall pelt you with filth.” (Nahum 3:5-6)

Bible and pornography:

“Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.” (Ezekiel 23: 20-21)

“and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions.” (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)

“Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.” (Micah 1:8)

Contrary to the Bible, the Koran, justly egalitarian in its approach, based on its emphasis on the common origin of men and women (Koran 4:1 etc), doesn’t agree with the Bible where the Bible says that women were created “from and for” men nor does it say that women cannot teach nor have authority over men. The Koran also dispels the common myth among other religions in general that a woman is evil by nature and has been created to deceive mankind.

The Koran over 1400 years back gave women the right to property ownership, the right to initiate divorce, the right to legal testimony and the right to earn their livelihood if they so pleased. It emphasized equity and kindness in a marital relationship and gave women an equal right to arbitration to resolve differences with their spouses. An unbiased reading of the Koran clearly reveals that it liberated women long before modern women’s rights movements were born (for more information see: women.rationalreality.com)

The prophets according to the Bible:

Abraham married his sister (Genesis 20:12)

Lot had incest with his daughters who begat his children (Genesis 19:30)

David/adultery with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:1-7)

Solomon worshipped idols (1 Kings 11:4)

Noah was a drunkard and lay naked in his intoxication (Genesis 9:20)

Aaron led people to worship the golden calf (Exodus 32:2-11)

Jesus was seen as a wine bibber (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34)

Jacob was a deceiver (Genesis 27)

Alcohol dependency and the Bible:

Proverbs 31:6-7 “Give strong drink to him who is ready to perish, and wine to those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink and forget his poverty and remember his misery no more.”

Or this contradiction:

Proverbs 20:1 (just 11 chapters earlier):“Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a raging and whomsoever is deceived thereby is not wise.”
 
"DIVORCE:

The Koran by giving women a right to initiate divorce is truly revolutionary. The New Testament, in the supposed words of Jesus, makes divorce an offense similar to adultery, permissible only when the woman has cheated on the husband (Matthew 5:32). The Old Testament states that only a man can initiate divorce (Deuteronomy 24:1).
The Koran, contrary to that states:

“…If you both fear that you wont be able to keep within the boundaries of God in marriage, there is no harm if SHE ransom herself…”
The ransom would of course be the return of the initial property that the man gave her when she got married to him (the Mahar).

It is a common misconception that Islam offers a quick divorce. If the man says: “I divorce you,” three times to the woman the marriage is nullified, according to popular rumor. This is not true. The Koran offers an elaborate braking system for divorce. A system which is so advanced for its time that it is now being suggested in England to stop careless “quick” divorce which creates a burden on both the adults and children in question.

The Koran’s method of divorce is simple yet very functional. If mind is set on divorce, a divorce statement is written and pronounced in the presence of witnesses (Koran 65:2). Then there is a three month break in which both parties stay together as husband and wife, so that time be given to reconsider (Koran 2:228). After the three-month period, if the man initiated the divorce, he can either take the wife back, if she wants to remain in the marriage, or part. If he takes her back he can initiate divorce only once more in his life with the same woman.

If he takes her back the second time, then he has lost his rights to initiate divorce in the same relationship ever again (Koran 2:229). A woman can buyout her divorce by surrendering the property that was given her by the husband whenever she thinks the marriage wont work out. All through this process, the Koran suggest that help be sought by arbitration (Koran 4:35), one person from the man’s side and one from the woman’s. Very modern concepts given the history of the Koran. Does it not surprise you that people refer to the followers of this book as barbarians? Yet, the same culture that points fingers at these “barbarians” has a divorce rate of over 50 percent. Out of every hundred new marriages in the United States over fifty [old or new] will end in divorce.

Concerning divorce, since the man has been providing for the woman, regardless of who initiated the divorce proceedings, the Koran states:

“…And for women are rights equal to the rights against them but men have a degree over them (in the context of divorce only) in what is just (2:228).”
It is very clear that this verse is stating that there can be no absolute equal laws when conditions on both sides differ. Giving equal laws under unequal circumstances would be injustice. The Koran wants equality with justice. Thus women are allowed to divorce a man once [by surrendering the property the man gave her] and the husband can initiate the divorce twice.

Not only is the Koran the only “religious” book that explicitly states, “and for women are rights equal to the rights against them in justice (2:228)”, it is more egalitarian than modern laws. As late as 1982 in the United States for example, the Equal Rights Amendment that called for equal rights for men and women in the law, failed. The Koran truly liberated women over fourteen hundred years back declaring that for women will be rights equal to those against them in justice!"
 
The Koran, in establishing itself as being the word of an all-knowing God, presented a scientific test of falsification regarding books that claim to be from God. It stated:

“Do they not consider the Koran with care. If it had been from anyone other than God, it would contain many contradictions.” (Koran 4:82)

This “industry” of manufacturing the “word of God” was in vogue in ancient times when religion was the most powerful institution in society. Thus the elite whenever they wanted to convince people of something, to further their economic gain, used religion. This not only distorted and ruined the genuine “words of God”, it created mischief and corruption in society which ultimately got blamed on religion. It was not religion but pseudo-religion and constructed books, like parts of the Bible, that got institutionalized and caused great harm and injustice to humanity. The Koran, coming to reform such a society, presented itself as a criterion to distinguish true from false (Koran 2:185), based on the principles of science and rationality. It termed nature as being the reflections of God’s will (Sunna in Arabic). It termed the careful analysis of nature and contemplation based on it, as a duty for every believer (Koran 3:195). The history of modern science began with the Koran. Muslims inspired by the Koran did pioneering foundation building work in all fields of modern science, thus sparking the European Renaissance.

The Koran knew that pseudo-religion was harmful, so it termed telling lies about God the greatest wrong anyone could do. The Book of Jeremiah in the Old Testament of the Bible, regarded by many Jewish scholars as being the “most authentic” of all books of the Bible, clearly states how scribes deliberately lie with their pen to convince people of certain things that they falsely manufacture, being from God when they are in fact not:

“How can you say that we are wise and that the law of the lord is with us but behold, the false pen of the scribe has made it into a lie.” (Jeremiah 8:8)
 
So much for respecting Christians as people of the book. God is merciful.
 
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Faith101:
Hey exoflare
Islam is a religion of justice. THe Quran CLEARLY states that no one is better than any one else, except if they have more piety. THe prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) said that no arab is superior than a non-arab and no white man is superior over black.
Yet Christians can be thrown in jail and their bibles thrown out in Muslim countries. I don’t think that Islam is practiced then from what I read. How do you explain what happens in Saudi Arabia?
 
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Fitz:
Yet Christians can be thrown in jail and their bibles thrown out in Muslim countries. I don’t think that Islam is practiced then from what I read. How do you explain what happens in Saudi Arabia?
FYI: Saudi Arabia is NOT an Islamic country in the sense that is it FULLY implements the Shariah (Islamic Law). Please don’t make it and other present so called Islamic countries as standards for what Islam is and is not.

Do you know how many good Muslims are being TORTURED in these countries?

peace,

deen
 
T-J,

The Bible says a lot about human behavior. Just about any verse taken out of context can be presented to be proof of whatever anyone wants.

In quoting your passages, you seem to be making the argument that the Bible is advocating injustice or drunkenness etc. That is misleading and not true.

Someone who is about to die or who is serverly depressed, probably could use a stiff drink. That would clearly be an act of mercy and not wrong under the circumstances.

As far as woman’s rights goes, the Bible was written in times when a male dominated society was prevalent. And one of the reasons why the Church is governed by both scriptures AND traditions, is that customs change. Plus the New Testament supercedes some of the Old Testaments concepts. Jesus does not justify divorce but speaks out against it.

Both books may have moral values presented in them, but the proof of the pudding comes in how folks follow, interpret and abides by those moral codes. And in particular how the religious leaders and everyday followers preach or live by those principles.

While radical elements (hard core fundalmentailists) or barely borderline believers (those who are Christian or Muslim in name only) in either religion may make a mockery of these moral codes. My guess is that the mainline or moderate Christians and Muslims will be good and upright folks in both faiths.

Unfortunately, it is the extremes on both ends that get all the press. It’s big news when folks go off the deep end and cause a lot of grief or trouble. But it is NOT newsworthy to lead a quiet upright life praising God or helping others as one is supposed to do.

Christ’s Peace
wc
 
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deen:
FYI: Saudi Arabia is NOT an Islamic country in the sense that is it FULLY implements the Shariah (Islamic Law). Please don’t make it and other present so called Islamic countries as standards for what Islam is and is not.

Do you know how many good Muslims are being TORTURED in these countries?

peace,

deen
Ok, so I have read about Muslim women (and male students too) in Iran complaining about women’s rights, women in Jordan complaining. Are we not allowed to comment on the treatment of Muslim women in any of these countries? I do know Muslims are tortured by Muslims and some by their secular governements. In that case it is not about religion though I would think. It would be more like how Saddam, a secularist tyrant, tortured Muslims just because he could.
 
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deen:
FYI: Saudi Arabia is NOT an Islamic country in the sense that is it FULLY implements the Shariah (Islamic Law). Please don’t make it and other present so called Islamic countries as standards for what Islam is and is not.

Do you know how many good Muslims are being TORTURED in these countries?

peace,

deen
Unimprtant how many Islamists are being tortured. Fact - Christians are brutalised across the Islamic world for spreading the Word.
 
reformedandfree said:
“Unimprtant how many Islamists are being tortured. Fact - Christians are brutalised across the Islamic world for spreading the Word.”

I am not sure what those Christians Missionaries are/were doing in the Muslim countries and how they were/are being brutalised or tortured but it is sure that Holy Bible does contain “X” rated and “other” material that is absolutely inappropriate for innocent children and decent families of any faith.

Read any version of the Holy Bible thoroughly then you will see by yourself what I am talking.

If you disagree with me then try one thing today, if you have kids. Read out Ezekiel Chapter 23 to your kids and family members. If you are a non-religious Westener, it may not surprise you or your kids or family members but most certainly it is **absolutley inappropriate ** and not acceptable for any Eastern culture/country because their view of morality is totally different than Western Atheistic/Non-Religious/materialistic view.
This may be the one of the many reasons countries like Saudi Arabia do not allow “Holy” Bible to enter their countries and thus spoil their culture. That is their view and you have to respect their cultural values and their Holy Book Koran is free from these types of indecent and inappropriate things.
 
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