Is it ok to change the apostles creed?

[Jonatron5]

So I am a protestant, I go to a mainline protestant church.

And the other day my preacher says that from now on we are going to change what we say in the apostles creed.

We will no longer say " I beleive in the Holy Catholic Church"

Instead we will say “I beleive in the Holy ‘Christian’ Church”

The best backstory I got was evidently someone had complained about us using the word catholic and professing belief in it, when we arnt catholics.

Totally honestly I never thought much about the words I said, and I just repeated them from memory. But when he said we where going to change them I was just like:

“Can you do that, is that ok to do”!?

So I figured since it involved the word catholic I would ask here on catholic answers if anyone else has heard of anything similar.

 

[OddBird]

For that exact reason (the word “catholic” being loaded), we have a version of the Creed which says “I believe in the Holy universal Church” in my French-speaking Reformed church.

We also have an ecumenical version of the Nicene Creed which says “I believe in the One Holy Church, in Her catholicity and in Her apostolicity” (I almost never hear it actually used).

But both these versions have been proposed by official committees, either Protestant or with an ecumenical representation, who had been entrusted by the churches they represented with the task of formulating a text which was both faithful to the Greek and theologically acceptable. I’m more concerned about ministers deciding on their own that’s it cool to change (in other words, there’s a real and serious question of authority behind that).

In your particular case, I’m not a big fan of the proposed replacement because it loses the universal dimension of the word “Catholic”.

ETA: the word “Catholic” originally means “universal”.

 

[Beryllos]

Great answer!

 

[Maximian]

If you’re a Protestant, you can do what you like! The question is, what do YOU consider to be the source of authority? If you think that the Council of Milan where the Apostles’ Creed was mostly formulated, plus subsequent adjustments by the Church, are authoritative, then you are walking down a logical path which will lead you to Rome.

 

[OddBird]

If you think that the Council of Milan where the Apostles’ Creed was mostly formulated, plus subsequent adjustments by the Church, are authoritative, then you are walking down a logical path which will lead you to Rome

Yep. Ask me how I know

 

[Maximian]

How do you know?

 

[OddBird]

In all seriousness, exactly what you describe, as well as realizing there wouldn’t be a Bible hadn’t there been a Church to preserve the traditions, put them into writing, and define a canon, brought me where I am. This, and a completely unexpected experience when I found myself by chance at Adoration.

(Sorry for derailing the thread, OP!)

 

[Maximian]

(Sorry for derailing the thread, OP!)

Im not the OP but it seems to me that what you have described is very relevant to any question beginning “Is it ok to change…”

 

[1ke]

The best backstory I got was evidently someone had complained about us using the word catholic and professing belief in it, when we arnt catholics.

Clearly your pastor and others don’t know what the meaning of the words they are saying are if they deny one, holy, catholic, and apostolic (not capitalized).

Catholic is the Greek word for “of the whole” or “universal”. The catholic church in this context isn’t the Catholic Church but the whole body of believers.

Can you do that, is that ok to do”!?

No.

So I figured since it involved the word catholic I would ask here on catholic answers if anyone else has heard of anything similar.

It’s very sad how divorced many believers have become from the faith of the Church Fathers.

 

[1ke]

For that exact reason (the word “catholic” being loaded), we have a version of the Creed which says “I believe in the Holy universal Church” in my French-speaking Reformed church.

The word “catholic” is not “loaded”.

Seems to me this is a widespread issue of ignorance of what the word means.

Edited to add: to be clear, not you but the church people you reference tinkering with the Creed seem to be ignorant of the words and their meaning.

 

[englands123]

Sorry to be harsh but as a protestant you’ve already broken away from the original Church Jesus founded on Earth.

So it makes no difference what you change. As you’ve already decided to rebel.

 

[Vico]

Eh, its sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam in Latin.

 

[OddBird]

The word “catholic” is not “loaded”.

I mean no disrespect, @1ke - but yes, on a continent which was excruciated by bloody religion wars following the Reformation (with horrors going both ways), in a country where until a few decades ago villages had a Catholic bakery and a Protestant bakery and nobody would have dared to go to the other confession’s, the term “Catholic” is loaded.

I find it unfortunate that this confessional distinction has completely erased the word’s original meaning in people’s minds on both sides. But that’s how it is, and those alternative formulations (which, in case of the Nicene creed, were made with the (name removed by moderator)ut of reputable Catholic and Orthodox theologians) simply acknowledge that fact and try to bring out again the first sense of the word. But the hurt from history will take time to heal completely.

 

[MikeInVA]

bloody religion wars following the Reformation

Those were wars fought by governments for political reasons, who used religion as their rationale.

 

[HeDa]

I have seen catholic translated as both universal and worldwide in protestant congregations translations of the Apostle´s creed.

You can always suggest that your preacher and parish use the original Greek instead. Then there wouldn’t be any problems with translations.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

No. It’s not “ok”.

The Creed comes to us from Latin and Greek. Take either one of these, and translate it literally and slavishly into whatever vernacular you choose, and you’ll have your answer.

This from the Wikipedia page (I can pretty much hack my way through the Latin, but as for the Greek, I only understand some individual words, and then there is the “speed bump” of an alphabet with which I’m not 100% familiar):

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae,
et in Iesum Christum, Filium Eius unicum, Dominum nostrum,
qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine,
passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus,
descendit ad inferos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis,
ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis,
inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum,
sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem,
remissionem peccatorum,
carnis resurrectionem,
vitam aeternam.
Amen.

Πιστεύω εἰς Θεòν πατέρα, Παντοκράτορα, Ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς.
Καὶ (εἰς) Ἰησοῦν Χριστòν, Υἱὸν Αὐτοῦ τòν μονογενῆ, τòν Κύριον ἡμῶν,
τòν συλληφθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος ἁγίου, γεννηθέντα ἐκ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου,
παθόντα ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, σταυρωθέντα, θανόντα, καὶ ταφέντα,
κατελθόντα εἰς τὰ κατώτατα, τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ ἀναστάντα ἀπò τῶν νεκρῶν,
ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανούς, καθεζόμενον ἐν δεξιᾷ Θεοῦ Πατρὸς παντοδυνάμου,
ἐκεῖθεν ἐρχόμενον κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς.
Πιστεύω εἰς τò Πνεῦμα τò ἅγιον, ἁγίαν καθολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν, ἁγίων κοινωνίαν,
ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν, σαρκὸς ἀνάστασιν, ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
Ἀμήν.

 

[BohemianBrother]

Those were wars fought by governments for political reasons, who used religion as their rationale.

It would be great if it stopped at that…

 

[Jonatron5]

then you are walking down a logical path which will lead you to Rome

yeah truthfully its something i’ve been thinking about for some time myself. Perhaps some day but i’m not there yet

 

[Jonatron5]

Yeah I do get that. Its more just a history thing… i was raised protestant and I personnaly struggle with my faith, there are alot of days I struggle to even call myself a believer.

If I was 100% convinced that the roman church was the one Jesus had intended me to be in and I was stronger in my beleifs ingeneral rest assured I would start my conversion immediatly

 

[Lanthanum]

In Polish translation used by Catholic Church the word “catholic” is translated into “powszechny” (universal, widespread). This translation is used in both Apostles’ and Nicene Creed. The Catholic Church itself is “Kościół katolicki”, though.
For Catholics the answer whether a translation is “ok” is simple: it is ok if it’s sanctioned by Catholic Church. I don’t think it’s possible to provide a definitive answer for non-Catholics. The decision to replace “catholic” with some other word doesn’t seem so outrageous however, given that Catholic Church allowed it at least once.