If you’re a Lutheran, you recognize the authority of the early councils. You also recognize that the Church is granted teaching authority. Sadly, that authority is divided along with the Church.
The Catholic Church in communion with the Bishop of Rome is certainly a significant part of the one True Church, but it is not only and exclusively so.
That’s not what Protestant means. The formal protest was against the actions of civil authorities at the Second Diet at Speyer in 1529.
No, what I’m saying is that Catholics understand “the Church” as the same thing as “The Catholic Church” other Christian denominations may be Christian, but you are not part of the Catholic Church (this from a Catholic perspective). Some Catholics use the term “separated brothers, etc” for protestants. This is what I was trying to convey to answer his argument from a Catholic perspective. The very reason his preacher doesn’t want to use the word “catholic” even though he’s misunderstanding the context of the word, is because he has a problem with the Catholic Church in some way however small (not trying to be difficult, but that fact is immediately obvious as he previously stated)
No. They don’t. Honestly, the average “Protestant” in the pew doesn’t care. They see the Catholic parish on the next corner as just another church where a neighbor or co-worker goes to church.
Nope. Not historically. Not now.
I think many Catholics do see it this way, though I think some may view Eastern Orthodox as part of the Church.
I think this reflects Catholic catechesis, from what I’ve heard and read.
He may be. I’ve never seen or understood the reason for the lower case “c” or the use of the word Christian as a replacement.
I’ve heard the same among poorly catechized Lutherans regarding the Athanasisn Creed, which starts with the words: “ Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith.”
Are you implying that history changes over time?
This is the problem. You must know your history. It is because people do not know their history that we have so many Christian denominations and division in the world.
No. I’m respectfully correcting your mistaken understanding of the history of the term.
I think there is some truth in this. We tend to be comfortable in the Church’s divided condition, contrary to the call that we all be one.
Yes, and I think that comes with understanding what the earliest Christians believed.
What denomination are you?
So who started the Lutherans? Was he always Lutheran?
Lutheranism is a tradition within the one True Church. It has its roots in the Evangelical Catholic reformation, led by Luther and others.JonNC:
So who started the Lutherans? Was he always Lutheran?
This is not what Catholics believe. That is what I was trying to say, you may call it the…
…but to most it is just called the Reformation, that period in history where Luther broke from the Roman Catholic Church and started his own religion.
Actually, they were an invitation to debate. They were stated debate points. The 95 Theses were not a protest. The protest came at the second Dirt at Speyer.
You can hold to that polemic if you want, but that’s never been my understanding.
Very few of the communions/tradition / denominations referred to as Protestant have any direct connection to the Lutheran tradition, or the 95 Theses. Even Lutherans don’t view the 95 Theses as particularly important to the tradition. They aren’t in the Book of Concord, the collection of symbols of the tradition.
I know. Lutherans would disagree.
They called themselves Evangelical Catholics.
How about this?
I would never argue that the pope is not central to the Church. He is. That is why it is so important that the doctrine of universal jurisdiction be debated.
even if he was supporting the doctrine of the Eucharist here, to me it seems somewhat hypocritical to say this and then advocate for getting rid of sections of scripture. I truly do feel that he was mentally conflicted in many ways spiritually…not to mention his rough childhood. I wish he had tried to reform what he could within, rather than go off on his own. This to me was his greatest mistake. Even so, surely God will use his mistakes (in my opinion) for good.
I know some Polish and am familiar with the distinction between “powszechny” and “katolicki”. It has been many years since I assisted at a Polish Mass, and I did not recall the word they used.
It’s the same in Czech, with the Catholic Church called Katolická Církev, but in the creeds it’s either církev obecná or všeobecná (meaning “universal”, “general”, or even “common” church). Those creeds are pretty much ecumenically accepted across all the churches here.