Is it ok to give baby holy communion?

[Stephentlig]

My son will be baptised at about 8 weeks old into the Greek rite. My Wife is looking for reassurance that it is ok to give Holy Communion to the neophyte on that day as he is only a few weeks old and not on solids?

Pax
Stephentlig

 

[RyanBlack]

My son will be baptised at about 8 weeks old into the Greek rite. My Wife is looking for reassurance that it is ok to give Holy Communion to the neophyte on that day as he is only a few weeks old and not on solids?

Pax
Stephentlig

Generally in such cases, the infant will receive a small amount of Our Lord’s Most Precious Blood.

 

[mardukm]

My son will be baptised at about 8 weeks old into the Greek rite. My Wife is looking for reassurance that it is ok to give Holy Communion to the neophyte on that day as he is only a few weeks old and not on solids?

Are you talking about canonical and theological grounds?

Canonically, I defer to others on this point, since I’m not 100% positive. From my understanding, if you are a Latin Catholic, even if a priest of an Eastern Rite was performing the baptism, Latin Canon law would still apply to you, so your baby should not be receiving communion.

Theologically, Easterns and Orientals permit infants to receive because the Eucharist is the food of eternal life. We do not deny it to infants, for Jesus said, “do not forbid them to come, for it is to such as these that the kingdom of heaven belongs.”

The Latin Church, in distinction, applies the Pauline prescription in I Cor 10 - that one should not come to the Eucharist if one does not properly recognize the body and blood of Christ. This does not mean salvation is lacking to an infant who is not given the Eucharist, for Baptism provides all the Grace necessary for salvation on that occasion.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Wesley7]

Is it ok to give baby holy communion?

Yes.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My son will be baptised at about 8 weeks old into the Greek rite. My Wife is looking for reassurance that it is ok to give Holy Communion to the neophyte on that day as he is only a few weeks old and not on solids?

Pax
Stephentlig

You son will be given literally a drop of the Precious Blood. No worries about solids.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Are you talking about canonical and theological grounds?

Canonically, I defer to others on this point, since I’m not 100% positive. From my understanding, if you are a Latin Catholic, even if a priest of an Eastern Rite was performing the baptism, Latin Canon law would still apply to you, so your baby should not be receiving communion.

Theologically, Easterns and Orientals permit infants to receive because the Eucharist is the food of eternal life. We do not deny it to infants, for Jesus said, “do not forbid them to come, for it is to such as these that the kingdom of heaven belongs.”

The Latin Church, in distinction, applies the Pauline prescription in I Cor 10 - that one should not come to the Eucharist if one does not properly recognize the body and blood of Christ. This does not mean salvation is lacking to an infant who is not given the Eucharist, for Baptism provides all the Grace necessary for salvation on that occasion.

Blessings,
Marduk

Well, normally a priest wouldn’t accept a canonically Roman Catholic parent’s request to baptize his/her child unless the parents have already been attending the EC parish regularly. If they are practicing ECs, they the child will be baptized according to the EC Rite.

 

[The_Idiot]

Going back to the original question

is it OK to give baby holy communion ?

Do you seriously think that priests would commune an infant if it were not OK ?

This has been done for thousands of years and each priest must have Communed many many babies .

 

[Stephentlig]

I’ve spoken to Archimandrite Fr.Serge about it and he said its fine and that I should refer all self styled experts to himself as he knows the rules etc.

Thanks for all your help and God bless.:byzsoc:

 

[Vico]

I’ve spoken to Archimandrite Fr.Serge about it and he said its fine and that I should refer all self styled experts to himself as he knows the rules etc.

Thanks for all your help and God bless.:byzsoc:

That is good, so he will then get prior approval from the proper Latin pastor (for Latin Church parents) and will also be aware of these eastern Catholic canons CCEO and the Latin CIC canons:

CCEO Canon 683
Baptism must be be celebrated according the liturgical prescriptions of the Church sui iuris in which according to the norm of law the person to be baptized is to be enrolled.

CCEO Canon 29

1. By virtue of baptism, a child who has not yet completed his fourteenth year of age is enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the Catholic father; or the Church sui iuris of the mother if only the mother is Catholic or if both parents by agreement freely request it, with due regard for particular law established by the Apostolic See.

CIC (Latin) Canon 112
2. The custom, however prolonged, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of another Ritual Church sui iuris, does not carry with it enrollment in that Church.

CCEO Canon 3
Christian faithful of Eastern Churches even if committed to the care of a hierarch or pastor of another Church sui iuris, nevertheless remain enrolled in their own Church.

 

[Stephentlig]

That is good, so he will then get prior approval from the proper Latin pastor (for Latin Church parents) and will also be aware of these eastern Catholic canons CCEO and the Latin CIC canons:

CCEO Canon 683
Baptism must be be celebrated according the liturgical prescriptions of the Church sui iuris in which according to the norm of law the person to be baptized is to be enrolled.

CCEO Canon 29

1. By virtue of baptism, a child who has not yet completed his fourteenth year of age is enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the Catholic father; or the Church sui iuris of the mother if only the mother is Catholic or if both parents by agreement freely request it, with due regard for particular law established by the Apostolic See.

CIC (Latin) Canon 112
2. The custom, however prolonged, of receiving the sacraments according to the rite of another Ritual Church sui iuris, does not carry with it enrollment in that Church.

CCEO Canon 3
Christian faithful of Eastern Churches even if committed to the care of a hierarch or pastor of another Church sui iuris, nevertheless remain enrolled in their own Church.

I’ve no idea as my own interpretation of Church law is not a good one. but I’ve already mentioned the canons he did say that the child can receive Holy Communion and Chrismation and that its fine and that he knows the rules etc and that I should just refer everyone to himself in relation to baptism.

I trust his judgment of course so on with the baptism I’d say.

Pax et bonum
Stephen

 

[Vico]

I’ve no idea as my own interpretation of Church law is not a good one. but I’ve already mentioned the canons he did say that the child can receive Holy Communion and Chrismation and that its fine and that he knows the rules etc and that I should just refer everyone to himself in relation to baptism.

I trust his judgment of course so on with the baptism I’d say.

Pax et bonum
Stephen

Actually it does not require subtle knowledge of canon law. The details in a form accessible to, and recommended to, the faithful layman is in a 17 USD book that I have and have read. It is international in application and recommended by the late Byzantine Metropolitan Basil Myron Schott who wrote a foreward.

Inter-Ecclesial Relations Between Eastern and Latin Catholics: A Canonical-Pastoral Handbook by Dimitri Salachas & Krzysztof Nitkiewicz, English Edition by George Dmitry Gallaro, 2009, 157 pp., ISBN 1-932208-23-2

clsa.site-ym.com/store/view_product.asp?id=315681

Sometimes the priests do not follow the canon laws, even when aware of them. The Holy Mysteries are still valid (in most cases) but the celebration may be illicit. This is a reflection on the presbyter not the faithful. However, a Catholic has rights to receive the Holy Mysteries according to the prescription of their ascribed sui iuris Church, and should be aware of that.

One properly receives the Holy Mysteries of initiation (baptism, chrismation, first communion) per the prescription of the Church sui iuris. For example:

Latin Church and some eastern Catholic Churches:

baptism (infant or adult) by priest or deacon *
confirmation (age of discretion or adult) by bishop or delegated priest (with Holy Myron from the bishop)
first communion (age of discretion or adult)
Adults receive all three together.

Most Eastern Catholic Churches:

baptism (infant or adult) by priest *
chrismation (infant or adult) by priest (with Holy Myron from the bishop)
first communion (infant or adult)
Adults receive all three together.

• and others in grave circumstances

 

[ciero]

Actually it does not require subtle knowledge of canon law. The details in a form accessible to, and recommended to, the faithful layman is in a 17 USD book that I have and have read. It is international in application and recommended by the late Byzantine Metropolitan Basil Myron Schott who wrote a foreward.

Inter-Ecclesial Relations Between Eastern and Latin Catholics: A Canonical-Pastoral Handbook by Dimitri Salachas & Krzysztof Nitkiewicz, English Edition by George Dmitry Gallaro, 2009, 157 pp., ISBN 1-932208-23-2

clsa.site-ym.com/store/view_product.asp?id=315681

Sometimes the priests do not follow the canon laws, even when aware of them. The Holy Mysteries are still valid (in most cases) but the celebration may be illicit. This is a reflection on the presbyter not the faithful. However, a Catholic has rights to receive the Holy Mysteries according to the prescription of their ascribed sui iuris Church, and should be aware of that.

One properly receives the Holy Mysteries of initiation (baptism, chrismation, first communion) per the prescription of the Church sui iuris. For example:

Latin Church and some eastern Catholic Churches:

baptism (infant or adult) by priest or deacon *
confirmation (age of discretion or adult) by bishop or delegated priest (with Holy Myron from the bishop)
first communion (age of discretion or adult)
Adults receive all three together.

Most Eastern Catholic Churches:

baptism (infant or adult) by priest *
chrismation (infant or adult) by priest (with Holy Myron from the bishop)
first communion (infant or adult)
Adults receive all three together.

• and others in grave circumstances

Vico…you ever coming out of those canon law books??

You can quote all the canons you want…but in real life……things happen…!

 

[Vico]

Vico…you ever coming out of those canon law books??

You can quote all the canons you want…but in real life……things happen…!

Yes, there is currently an unfortunate gap between practice and the canons, and the canons should be followed. In this case the book is a written for the faithful and the presbyterate to be used as a practical guide, not narrowly designated for canon lawyers.

Also, I should quote the canons because we Catholics have been mandated to better mutual understanding by the Second Vatican Council, Orientalium Ecclesiaruim (no. 24). The book that I refer to is an English translation 2007 of the book of 2005 from the Pontifical Oriental Institute (founded by Pope Benedict XV in 1917) and explains that, in the words of Metropolitan Basil Myron Schott:

“The Second Vatican Council and the Holy Father are of one mind in reiterating the necessity for all Christian faithful to safeguard the precious terasure of the CHurch of origin. All Christian faithful: clergy, religious and laity, are to faithfully follow their proper tradition, acquire a greater knowledge of it, and observe it more perfectly. Certainly this fact contributes to a greater mutual knowledge and enrighment for all.”

And the translator George Gallaro wrote that “a better mutual understanding (muta ac meliore cognitione) of the proper Church sui iuris membership of the Christian faithful will enrich the ritual patrimony to which they have a right and also secure the valid and licit reception of the sacramental mysteries…”.

 

[ciero]

Yes, there is currently an unfortunate gap between practice and the canons, and the canons should be followed. In this case the book is a written for the faithful and the presbyterate to be used as a practical guide, not narrowly designated for canon lawyers.

Also, I should quote the canons because we Catholics have been mandated to better mutual understanding by the Second Vatican Council, Orientalium Ecclesiaruim (no. 24). The book that I refer to is an English translation 2007 of the book of 2005 from the Pontifical Oriental Institute (founded by Pope Benedict XV in 1917) and explains that, in the words of Metropolitan Basil Myron Schott:

“The Second Vatican Council and the Holy Father are of one mind in reiterating the necessity for all Christian faithful to safeguard the precious terasure of the CHurch of origin. All Christian faithful: clergy, religious and laity, are to faithfully follow their proper tradition, acquire a greater knowledge of it, and observe it more perfectly. Certainly this fact contributes to a greater mutual knowledge and enrighment for all.”

And the translator George Gallaro wrote that “a better mutual understanding (muta ac meliore cognitione) of the proper Church sui iuris membership of the Christian faithful will enrich the ritual patrimony to which they have a right and also secure the valid and licit reception of the sacramental mysteries…”.

Nice…I think I’ll stick with every bishop I have discussed this with…at least 6 Latin bishops and 10 or so Byzantine bishops who say other wise. Not 1 of the bishops I have questioned about this backs up your point…I used to think Like you Vico…but have since been converted!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Do babies need to observe the fast before communion? (like 1 hour or so)

My kid couldn’t get through Liturgy without munching on some cookies or Cheerios. Sometimes he wouldn’t shut up unless he’s fed.

 

[5Loaves]

Nice…I think I’ll stick with every bishop I have discussed this with…at least 6 Latin bishops and 10 or so Byzantine bishops who say other wise. Not 1 of the bishops I have questioned about this backs up your point…I used to think Like you Vico…but have since been converted!

When both parents are canonically Latin the thing for the kids to be aware of is that they likewise are canonically in the Latin Church Catholic even though they received all their sacraments of initiation in an ECC and have lived as an EC perhaps all their lives. The priest who baptizes them in the EC just needs to note in their baptismal record that they are Latin, as would a Latin priest who baptizes an EC child note it that record in his Latin Church that the child is of whatever EC Church sui iuris.

I think this comes up most often in the reverse where we get people after living their whole life in the Latin Church discovering they are canonically EC when they need their baptismal record for some reason, like marriage, and see noted there that they are canonically EC.

 

[Madaglan]

Are you talking about canonical and theological grounds?

Canonically, I defer to others on this point, since I’m not 100% positive. From my understanding, if you are a Latin Catholic, even if a priest of an Eastern Rite was performing the baptism, Latin Canon law would still apply to you, so your baby should not be receiving communion.

Theologically, Easterns and Orientals permit infants to receive because the Eucharist is the food of eternal life. We do not deny it to infants, for Jesus said, “do not forbid them to come, for it is to such as these that the kingdom of heaven belongs.”

The Latin Church, in distinction, applies the Pauline prescription in I Cor 10 - that one should not come to the Eucharist if one does not properly recognize the body and blood of Christ. This does not mean salvation is lacking to an infant who is not given the Eucharist, for Baptism provides all the Grace necessary for salvation on that occasion.

Blessings,
Marduk

In the Byzantine tradition, the illumination of baptism is closely tied with the Eucharist. The individual traditionally is baptized, chrismated and receives the Holy Eucharist on the same day. The newly illumined Christian is first to receive the Eucharist the next several weeks.

The Byzantine priest could just baptize, although I think, if there are canonical concerns, the infant probably ought to be baptized by a priest of the sui iurus church with which that infant will be affiliated.

 

[Vico]

Nice…I think I’ll stick with every bishop I have discussed this with…at least 6 Latin bishops and 10 or so Byzantine bishops who say other wise. Not 1 of the bishops I have questioned about this backs up your point…I used to think Like you Vico…but have since been converted!

I do not know what the bishops you spoke to actually said, you give no details as to the exact wording and answer, with regard to this topic, so I am not able to determine just what you mean. What I have seen you post recently is that you would not go to hell for not following the fasting or holy day rules of your particular church sui iuris.

The question of the thread is “Is it ok to give baby holy communion?” and this pertains to a child of Latin Catholic parents. The fast is that regardless of the ritual used the child will be a member of the Church sui iuris of the parent or parents. As such, when that is Latin Church, the norm is to not receive infant communion or chrismation, but rather to receive those at the age of discretion. This is in respect of the Latin patrimony and is canonically correct. Conversely, those infants initiated with eastern Catholic parents receive chrismation and first communion at the age used in that church, of which some are at the time of baptism and some are not. When this is not done the Mysteries are still valid (if otherwise valid) but not licit. This reflects upon the priest.

In the case of Holy Matrimony, for an inter-ecclesial Catholic couple, the sacrament may actually be invalid if the canons are not followed, as well as illicit.

 

[ciero]

I do not know what the bishops you spoke to actually said, you give no details as to the exact wording and answer, with regard to this topic, so I am not able to determine just what you mean. What I have seen you post recently is that you would not go to hell for not following the fasting or holy day rules of your particular church sui iuris.

The question of the thread is “Is it ok to give baby holy communion?” and this pertains to a child of Latin Catholic parents. The fast is that regardless of the ritual used the child will be a member of the Church sui iuris of the parent or parents. As such, when that is Latin Church, the norm is to not receive infant communion or chrismation, but rather to receive those at the age of discretion. This is in respect of the Latin patrimony and is canonically correct. Conversely, those infants initiated with eastern Catholic parents receive chrismation and first communion at the age used in that church, of which some are at the time of baptism and some are not. When this is not done the Mysteries are still valid (if otherwise valid) but not licit. This reflects upon the priest.

In the case of Holy Matrimony, for an inter-ecclesial Catholic couple, the sacrament may actually be invalid if the canons are not followed, as well as illicit.

Vico…Every bishop I have spoken to in regards to this both Latin & Byzantine, have clearly stated that when a person or family chooses to practice the faith in a Ritual church NOT their own, they are perfectly free to practice following the discipline of the church they choose to practice in. This is in regards to infant communion/chrismation, fasting regulations and holy day “obligation”, basically everything! If they then decide to change Ritual churches fine, but how is one to know if you are truly meant to be an another church without having lived in it?

 

[Vico]

Vico…Every bishop I have spoken to in regards to this both Latin & Byzantine, have clearly stated that when a person or family chooses to practice the faith in a Ritual church NOT their own, they are perfectly free to practice following the discipline of the church they choose to practice in. This is in regards to infant communion/chrismation, fasting regulations and holy day “obligation”, basically everything! If they then decide to change Ritual churches fine, but how is one to know if you are truly meant to be an another church without having lived in it?

The canons cover rights and obligations of the faithful, the ordinaries, the priests and deacons, and the religious. It describes the bishops and clergy responsibility to uphold the traditions for those enrolled in each ritual Church. We know that the bishops and presbyters are bound to the canons and should follow the prescriptions of the ascribed ritual church for licitness. As stated before as an example, one could end up with an invalid marriage if the canons are not followed. In fact my Byzantine pastor has stated that he must follow the canons and does and does not commune Latin infants, and is not granted the permission to give Chrismation to Latin infants, and that it is not possible for him to marry some Latin Catholics (keeping in mind that it would have to be the ritual Church of the Eastern Catholic groom unless dispensed). I have also talked with the Latin Chancery regarding issues of holy days and fasting, and received the answer that the Latins should follow the Latin practice.

Keep in mind also that the Latin Catholics are under the authority of the Latin bishops not the eastern eparchs (unless officially placed in their care) and vis versa.

It is the Holy See which has promulgated the canons, both Eastern CCEO and Latin CIC, and there are matters which they regulate which are not in the bishops competence to dispense. It is clear from the author of the book and from Metropolitan Basil Schott in the forward that the canons do regulate, even where the practice is contrary. This is a condition to be remediated and is why the book was published. It is not good to advise the faithful to ignore the canons.