Is it ok to give baby holy communion?

[ConstantineTG]

Vico…Every bishop I have spoken to in regards to this both Latin & Byzantine, have clearly stated that when a person or family chooses to practice the faith in a Ritual church NOT their own, they are perfectly free to practice following the discipline of the church they choose to practice in. This is in regards to infant communion/chrismation, fasting regulations and holy day “obligation”, basically everything! If they then decide to change Ritual churches fine, but how is one to know if you are truly meant to be an another church without having lived in it?

Agreed and this is what I have been told as well. I was surprised to find out there are people in the parish, regulars at that, that are canonically Roman Catholics but have practiced Ukrainian faith for years.

And I agree with what you say, how would you know that you are for that Rite and tradition if you are living at arms length going to Liturgy there but following the Roman canons and disciplines?

 

[5Loaves]

I ran into my canon law teacher today. He works as a canon lawyer for the Tribunal of the Diocese of Oakland. He confirmed that it is licit for an Eastern Catholic priest to baptize, chrismate, and give first Eucharist to a baby/child of Latin parents if he chooses to do so, normally this would be that they are full, active members of the parish for an appropriate length of time etc., whatever the criteria is the priest chooses to use. The baby/child is still a member of the Latin Church. He said it would be considerate for the EC priest to let the priest of their Latin parish know about this, but not required.

At lunch on Sunday I asked my EC priest if he would ever baptize, chrismate, and give first Eucharist to a baby/child of Latin parents if they were active in the parish and he felt in his judgment that doing so was right in that situation and he said he would at his own discretion and that the baby/child remains a member of the Latin Church but free to continue to participate fully in the EC parish.

Whatever the norms are of that ECC the family having committed to being members of that parish should under the guidance of their EC priest follow the norms their EC priest advises them to follow. If they are active in the parish and following the liturgical calendar of that parish and not of the Latin Church then it would make no sense to ignore the feasts and fasts of the calendar they are living on.

Off topic but relevant, it’s very important any time one brings a baby or small child into a Latin Church and expects to present the baby or young child for Holy Communion that they arrive well in advance of the Mass in order to allow plenty of time to find and speak with the priest about the circumstances-- that the baby is chrismated and been receiving. It’s not appropriate to just show up and expect that your little child or baby can receive in a Latin Church without first approaching the priest. That hasn’t been part of this topic but since there are two Latin Church families talking in this thread about their babies in ECCs they might one day visit a Latin Church with their families. This has come up elsewhere in the EC Section where ECs were upset that a Latin priest didn’t want to give Eucharist to their young child when they approached in the Communion line. We’re supposed to help bridge the East for the West, not seem to create possible scandal. Priests of the Latin Church I’ve talked with are all more than willing to commune the young children as long as they aren’t caught off guard with no explanation. It’s especially important in the case of a baby since the Latin Church Eucharist is under different appearances than in the East and while a young child might be fine with the Precious Body under the appearance of a Latin host, a baby might not be able to safely commune with that unless broken into a tiny piece, which the priest or EMHC would break, not the parent, and there’s no provision at the cup for an infant. Just something to think about and why talking with the priest well in advance of the start of the Holy Mass is important so no one is surprised when the time comes to receive..

 

[5Loaves]

Agreed and this is what I have been told as well. I was surprised to find out there are people in the parish, regulars at that, that are canonically Roman Catholics but have practiced Ukrainian faith for years.

We have a number of Latin Church Catholics who are active in the parish but who follow their Latin calendars because they are also active in a Latin parish and a number of other Latin Church activities and their spirituality and approach is pretty much Latin, but they love the Divine Liturgy and love our parish fellowship and have an interest in Eastern spirituality and respect for praxis tho it is not theirs. There are others who are Latin canonically but EC for all practical purposes and fully think of themselves as such. They go to the Russian Orthodox Church for other services like Vespers. Our clergy are fully orthodox and the tone of the parish is fully EC in that sense, the parish follows the Russian calendar and liturgy, of the OCA, and we have no Latinizations. I’d guess that we’re about 50/50 in the parish of those who are canonically Latin Church and those who are canonically of an ECC.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

A friend you is a UGCC priest has a parish were about half of the members are of the Latin Rite - if they still belong to the Latin Church, you wouldn’t know it as they attend only their new parish (he has welcomed them with open arms, they participate in parish life MORE than the cradle UGCCers and they’ve even learned the main services in “Ukra-vonic.”

And they all have their children baptized, chrismated and Communed at once (there are UGCCers I know who would balk at this).

The Sacraments/Mysteries of Initiation are the three Sacraments given one after the other.

What applies to Holy Communion in terms of awareness about what IT is also applies to Chrismation/Confirmation. Evangelical Protestants will acknowledge that it ALSO applies to baptism itself which is why there are those who are against child baptism.

From the Eastern POV, the “efficacy” of the Sacraments has to do with faith, of course.

The question is “whose faith?” The Eastern Church would reply that it is the faith of the Church herself - not “my faith” in the individual sense.

Surrounded by parents and family together with Godparents and the wider Church (it takes a “holy village” to raise a good Christian . . .), a child receives the three Sacraments of Initiation into the life of the Body of Christ and these are truly “efficacious” because our Mother which is the Church is the only one capable of confessing the faith and believing as God wills, by the power of the Holy Spirit that guides it. Whether children or new adult converts - these “newbies” are all children in the eyes of the Lord that must be fed on the milk of Grace as they begin to grow to the full stature of Christian maturity.

I believe strongly that the Eastern way of understanding faith would have prevented the Reformation in the West. I’m very happy that the Eastern Catholic Churches reject the Western views on “faith” whether in the Latin Catholic or Protestant traditions.

In this, the West can truly learn much from the ancient Orthodox Catholic Church of our Lord,God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Alex

 

[Vico]

…how would you know that you are for that Rite and tradition if you are living at arms length going to Liturgy there but following the Roman canons and disciplines?

Following the Latin Canon laws does not cause a Latin Catholic to live “at arms length” in an eastern Catholic parish (unless you mean the Holy Orders or Matrimonial differences, or differences in infant Christian initiation). There is no injunction to assisting at the Divine Liturgy or Mass, receiving the Holy Mystery of penance, or of the Holy Eucharist in any Catholic Church. And one can assist on additional holy days and fast or abstain more than the minimum required for their ascribed Church, and believe and study any Catholic Theology that appeals to them. CCEO defines a rite manifested in a Church sui iuris this way:
CCEO Canon 28

1. A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuis.
   Since there are several elements here, note that the disciplinary element is what the clergy is bound to in particular to preserve the faith. Each of the Holy Mysteries have specific canons (CIC, CCEO, territorial, and other) which must be followed to result in administrating them legally and validly. Since the bishops (eparchs) and the priests and deacons have specific roles in administering the Holy Mysteries and the Liturgy, they are to perfect that, which includes following the canons. But, the canons are written in such a way as to allow for variations for situation and marriages that are in some way interecclesial, and for travelers. This does not mean that the necessary delegations and permissions are waived, rather there may be permission given in a general way in a particular jurisdiction. The canons mention the existence of permissions, which may sometimes be presumed, for example:
   CCEO Canon 739
2. All priests, and only priests, validly administer the anointing of the sick. 2. The administration of the anointing of the sick belongs to the pastor, parochial vicar and to all other priests for those persons committed to their care in virtue of their office; any priest can licitly administer this sacrament with at least the presumed permission of those mentioned, indeed, in case of necessity he must do so.
   The Church has asked the faithful in the Middle East to attend at the parish of their ascribed Church sui iuris however. This is particularly important in that area as the Churches are being destroyed and they need the support of their faithful communities.

 

[Stephentlig]

Thank you all for your replies.

Here is another question for EC’s. Since we Romans only give at the age of reason…how do EC’s bring up their children in the understanding of the Eucharist and Chrismation?

God bless
Stephen

 

[RyanBlack]

Thank you all for your replies.

Here is another question for EC’s. Since we Romans only give at the age of reason…how do EC’s bring up their children in the understanding of the Eucharist and Chrismation?

God bless
Stephen

Well, there are a variety of things that work together. For one, as children attend Divine Liturgy, they learn the significance of the Eucharist through homilies and the Liturgy itself (although the Divine Liturgy itself does not primarily serve a didactic role). Also, as they witness the rites of Baptism and Chrismation, the rites themselves speak to the underlying theological significance. Furthemore, there are religious education programs offered by the parishes. Finally, Christian parents have the responsibility to bring their children up in the faith, which includes explaining the Mysteries to them.

 

[Stephentlig]

Well, there are a variety of things that work together. For one, as children attend Divine Liturgy, they learn the significance of the Eucharist through homilies and the Liturgy itself (although the Divine Liturgy itself does not primarily serve a didactic role). Also, as they witness the rites of Baptism and Chrismation, the rites themselves speak to the underlying theological significance. Furthemore, there are religious education programs offered by the parishes. Finally, Christian parents have the responsibility to bring their children up in the faith, which includes explaining the Mysteries to them.

Thanks Ryan. Thats been a great help.

Whats the dresscode for baptism? what should the child wear at an EC parish? ( even though he’ll be in the nip for his initial baptism ). lol

 

[RyanBlack]

Thanks Ryan. Thats been a great help.

Whats the dresscode for baptism? what should the child wear at an EC parish? ( even though he’ll be in the nip for his initial baptism ). lol

My own experience is somewhat limited since I have been attending Eastern Liturgies for only about 6 years (I was raised in a family that was part Pentecostal, part Southern Baptist), but my wife and I got a traditional, white baptismal gown for our son’s baptism. I have seen the same sorts of gowns for the few infant baptisms I’ve witnessed over the last 6-6 1/2 years.

 

[Vico]

Vico…Every bishop I have spoken to in regards to this both Latin & Byzantine, have clearly stated that when a person or family chooses to practice the faith in a Ritual church NOT their own, they are perfectly free to practice following the discipline of the church they choose to practice in. This is in regards to infant communion/chrismation, fasting regulations and holy day “obligation”, basically everything! If they then decide to change Ritual churches fine, but how is one to know if you are truly meant to be an another church without having lived in it?

It is still not clear what the bishops that you spoke to mean by discipline since (Merriam-Webster) discipline means:

4: training that ["]corrects](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/correct[1), molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character
5a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order b : orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior c : self-control
6**:** a rule or system of rules governing conduct or activity

The canons fall under 6, the bishops you spoke to may mean 4 or 5b or 5c, and mean with respect to the faithful or the clergy.

Metropolitan Schott said the canons regulate, (Merriam Webster):

1 a : to govern or direct according to rule *b *(1) : to bring under the control of law or constituted authority (2) : to make regulations for or concerning <regulate the industries of a country>

This is known to bind particularly on the bishops, priests, deacons, and those in the religious life. The way that the sacraments are given through the clergy is to follow the ritual of their Church sui iuris (or another with given faculties) and also conform to the prescriptions of the ascribed Church sui iuris of the faithful receiving them. Since the faithful may not know what this means, it is really binding upon the clergy, and they are not following the canons in all cases due to ignorance: as Metropolitan Basil Schott states in the book I quote from (2009), “…codes continue to regulate … even though experience testifies to the fact that the often-followed praxis does not always correspond to the norm”.