Is it okay for a Catholic to practice Yoga?

[LilyM]

On the issue of Hindus being offended - do you think there were no pagan Romans offended when the Pope co-opted the title Pontifex Maximus, formerly used for the chief priest of the pagan Roman state religion?

Or pagan druids upset when we took their custom of decorating trees at midwinter and Christianised it into the Yule logs and Christmas trees that we know today? Or their holly and mistletoe (both considered sacred plants) and used them in our Christmas celebrations? Or continued to call our days after the pagan Norse or Roman Gods?

Or any of the other myriad pagan customs we have rebranded over the centuries? The carrying of brides over thresholds (thought by the Romans to ward off the bad luck of a bride either stumbling in the doorway of her new house, or entering left foot first)? Or the throwing of rice (a pagan symbol of fertility)?

They surely were, at least some of them.

But does that upset on their part make our borrowed and tweaked pagan customs any less worthy or truly Christian? Should we rename the squillions of institutions with the word ‘Pontifical’ (derived from Pontifex) in their names? Should we ban the carol ‘the Holly and the Ivy’? Ban the carrying of brides (actually on health and safety grounds that’s not a bad idea ? Or rename all the planets or months of the year?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

On the issue of Hindus being offended - do you think there were no pagan Romans offended when the Pope co-opted the title Pontifex Maximus, formerly used for the chief priest of the pagan Roman state religion?

Or pagan druids upset when we took their custom of decorating trees at midwinter and Christianised it into the Yule logs and Christmas trees that we know today? Or their holly and mistletoe (both considered sacred plants) and used them in our Christmas celebrations? Or continued to call our days after the pagan Norse or Roman Gods?

Or any of the other myriad pagan customs we have rebranded over the centuries? The carrying of brides over thresholds (thought by the Romans to ward off the bad luck of a bride either stumbling in the doorway of her new house, or entering left foot first)? Or the throwing of rice (a pagan symbol of fertility)?

They surely were, at least some of them.

But does that upset on their part make our borrowed and tweaked pagan customs any less worthy or truly Christian? Should we rename the squillions of institutions with the word ‘Pontifical’ (derived from Pontifex) in their names? Should we ban the carol ‘the Holly and the Ivy’? Ban the carrying of brides (actually on health and safety grounds that’s not a bad idea ? Or rename all the planets or months of the year?

All that is true, but gosh, it makes me think… we need to come up with something original!

 

[LilyM]

All that is true, but gosh, it makes me think… we need to come up with something original!

Scripture says ‘there is nothing new under the sun’ (Ecclesiastes … umm … stuffed if I can be bothered looking up where). Most anything hooman beins can come up with has been recycled from somewhere.

 

[agnes_therese]

Also, there is a yoga pose which is merely lying flat on your back. I do hope that the yoga-is-evil crowd are very careful never to lie flat on their backs.

This sounds like superstition to me. How can we open up to energies in the universe by standing in a particular way? If my bottom is sticking out am I really worshipping something? Or if I’m holding my arms streched out? This sounds completely nonsensical to me. Can these so-called ‘energies’ really be manipulated in such a way? All exercise makes us feel good: there is a flow in the body, there is a sense of being more awake, stronger, healthy, etc. Is running and streching on the floor ultimately not the same thing? It is just physical activity And even if people believe that standing in a particular posture has a spiritual aim, does it actually mean that something spiritual is taking place? Just because I’m kneeling doesn’t mean I’m necessarily praying. Right?

 

[saveusfromhell]

Please read the following guide to proper English grammar.

wikihow.com/Use-English-Punctuation-Correctly

again it’s a web site about God, not english. the thread is

Is it okay for a Catholic to practice Yoga

not what do humanists think of the grammer used by posters. though as i said it’s hard to figure how you can contribute to the debate

 

[Porknpie]

If you’re talking about the article previously mentioned on this thread, then he did no such thing. He spoke personally of yoga and of his personal experience with it, not of its core philosophies. Regardless, however great Fr. Pacwa is, he, like the other lady, is not an expert on yoga…

Fr. Pacwa commented that he practiced yoga but after understanding more about it, stopped practicing it as he understood that it conflicted with Christianity. Below is from the Catechism. It toooo is consistent with what the article spoke to and is almost a rephrasing of what Fr. Pacwa spoke of. It was almost like he was rephrasing these four paragraphs but as it was a call in radio question, he was doing it from his personal knowledge. That yogas goal of clearing the mind goes against what we are to do in meditating. We should engage our mind in thought…advancing in knowing the Lord.

2705 Meditation is above all a quest. The mind seeks to understand the why and how of the Christian life, in order to adhere and respond to what the Lord is asking. The required attentiveness is difficult to sustain. We are usually helped by books, and Christians do not want for them: the Sacred Scriptures, particularly the Gospels, holy icons, liturgical texts of the day or season, writings of the spiritual fathers, works of spirituality, the great book of creation, and that of history the page on which the “today” of God is written.

2706 To meditate on what we read helps us to make it our own by confronting it with ourselves. Here, another book is opened: the book of life. We pass from thoughts to reality. To the extent that we are humble and faithful, we discover in meditation the movements that stir the heart and we are able to discern them. It is a question of acting truthfully in order to come into the light: “Lord, what do you want me to do?”

2707 There are as many and varied methods of meditation as there are spiritual masters. Christians owe it to themselves to develop the desire to meditate regularly, lest they come to resemble the three first kinds of soil in the parable of the sower.5 But a method is only a guide; the important thing is to advance, with the Holy Spirit, along the one way of prayer: Christ Jesus.

2708 Meditation engages thought, imagination, emotion, and desire. This mobilization of faculties is necessary in order to deepen our convictions of faith, prompt the conversion of our heart, and strengthen our will to follow Christ. Christian prayer tries above all to meditate on the mysteries of Christ, as in lectio divina or the rosary. This form of prayerful reflection is of great value, but Christian prayer should go further: to the knowledge of the love of the Lord Jesus, to union with him.

 

[Viviphilia]

again it’s a web site about God, not english. the thread is
not what do humanists think of the grammer used by posters. though as i said it’s hard to figure how you can contribute to the debate

In the spirit of philosophical charity, I was trying to help you express your point more clearly. So that’s two things I can contribute to this debate - helping you be more clear, and reminding you to be charitable.

 

[Farsight001]

Fr. Pacwa commented that he practiced yoga but after understanding more about it, stopped practicing it as he understood that it conflicted with Christianity. Below is from the Catechism. It toooo is consistent with what the article spoke to and is almost a rephrasing of what Fr. Pacwa spoke of. It was almost like he was rephrasing these four paragraphs but as it was a call in radio question, he was doing it from his personal knowledge. That yogas goal of clearing the mind goes against what we are to do in meditating. We should engage our mind in thought…advancing in knowing the Lord.

I read the Fr. Pacwa article. I saw that he said it caused HIM struggle. Nothing about it conflicting with Christianity though. And even so, as I already said, he is not an expert on yoga, so why does it matter what he says? He’s a theology powerhouse, not a yoga guru.

Also - who in the world said that yoga’s goal was to clear the mind?

2705 Meditation is above all a quest. The mind seeks to understand the why and how of the Christian life, in order to adhere and respond to what the Lord is asking. The required attentiveness is difficult to sustain. We are usually helped by books, and Christians do not want for them: the Sacred Scriptures, particularly the Gospels, holy icons, liturgical texts of the day or season, writings of the spiritual fathers, works of spirituality, the great book of creation, and that of history the page on which the “today” of God is written.

2706 To meditate on what we read helps us to make it our own by confronting it with ourselves. Here, another book is opened: the book of life. We pass from thoughts to reality. To the extent that we are humble and faithful, we discover in meditation the movements that stir the heart and we are able to discern them. It is a question of acting truthfully in order to come into the light: “Lord, what do you want me to do?”

2707 There are as many and varied methods of meditation as there are spiritual masters. Christians owe it to themselves to develop the desire to meditate regularly, lest they come to resemble the three first kinds of soil in the parable of the sower.5 But a method is only a guide; the important thing is to advance, with the Holy Spirit, along the one way of prayer: Christ Jesus.

2708 Meditation engages thought, imagination, emotion, and desire. This mobilization of faculties is necessary in order to deepen our convictions of faith, prompt the conversion of our heart, and strengthen our will to follow Christ. Christian prayer tries above all to meditate on the mysteries of Christ, as in lectio divina or the rosary. This form of prayerful reflection is of great value, but Christian prayer should go further: to the knowledge of the love of the Lord Jesus, to union with him.

Which is all great and dandy, but meditation in this sense is still impossible without first clearing your head of distraction.

 

[saveusfromhell]

In the spirit of philosophical charity, I was trying to help you express your point more clearly. So that’s two things I can contribute to this debate - helping you be more clear, and reminding you to be charitable.

Your post is just smug, while feigning to be charitable. In reality you have nothing to add to this as citing preternatural or supernatural (from a catholic context) beings to be myth shows your inability to follow the basic parameters of the thread

 

[Porknpie]

I read the Fr. Pacwa article. I saw that he said it caused HIM struggle. Nothing about it conflicting with Christianity though. And even so, as I already said, he is not an expert on yoga, so why does it matter what he says? He’s a theology powerhouse, not a yoga guru.

The article was not from Pacwa…reread my post. But the article shows yoga to be anti-Christian. Here’s more:

Below is from the American Yoga Association website.

The core of Yoga’s philosophy is that everything is supplied from within the individual. Thus, there is no dependence on an external figure, either in the sense of a person or god figure, or a religious organization.

Below is from Wikipedia.

Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग, yoga) is a generic term for a physical, mental, and spiritual discipline originating in ancient India[1][2] and found in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.[3][4][5] Specifically, Yoga is also one of the six orthodox schools in Hindu philosophy. It is based on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali and aims to use meditation to attain salvation.

We are called to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. Yoga moves one away from God. Salvation is through Jesus, not yoga. I go back to my early post where I said it breaks commandment #1. Better to stay with the rosary, Eucharistic Adoration or reading the bible for relaxation, meditation and staying close to God.

 

[Viviphilia]

Your post is just smug, while feigning to be charitable. In reality you have nothing to add to this as citing preternatural or supernatural (from a catholic context) beings to be myth shows your inability to follow the basic parameters of the thread

I’m not interested in fighting with you.

As someone who has managed to stay flexible and maintain good posture for many years by practicing yoga, I disagree with the idea that there is necessarily any spiritual component involved in it. Yoga is what you make of it. Call it something else if you like. But yoga books provide good instruction for how to stretch properly.

 

[RPRPsych]

Some pretty heated discussion going on here.

I think we need to understand that “Yoga” is a broad system of philosophy that has its roots in ancient Indian (“Axial Age”) culture and beliefs. This eventually became part of what we call “Hinduism” today. But “Hinduism” is not a monolithic entity with a clear doctrine (as is, say, Islam, Orthodox Judaism or our own faith.) Rather, it offers a menu of practices, devotions, and cults related to specific “deities” - which vary widely from region to region.

The “Hinduism” practiced in one town or state in India is often totally different from what it is in another. Attempts to group “Hindus” together as a single entity are more a social and political than a doctrinal phenomenon.

“Yoga” means “union”; our English word “yoke” is a cognate. There are various kinds of yoga (“Raja yoga”, “Dharma yoga”, etc.) What is mostly being discussed in these posts is “union (with the divine, with the universe) through physical exercise and discipline”, which is more properly termed “hatha yoga”. Modern variations on this theme include “kundalini yoga” and “Sudharshan Kriya yoga”.

Now, the “spiritual” aspects of yoga are, ideally, best left alone by Catholics. Without wishing to bash the beliefs of 75% of my countrymen, I’ll just state that Hindu views of God, creation, morals and life are quite different from the Catholic viewpoint. For a Catholic, studying them is one thing, but “borrowing” a spiritual practice from them is another.

As for the “physical” aspects - I’ve had to read a lot of literature in this area (because I keep getting proposals to collaborate in yoga research, which I regretfully decline), and it seems to be that there’s nothing that yoga can achieve which cannot be achieved by physical exercise, breathing, and possibly meditation.

At a biological level, yoga, like exercise, seems to work by modulating the balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, and shifting it in favour of the latter. Since stress, depression, anxiety and alcoholism all shift in in the opposite direction, yoga has been beneficial in some people with these conditions. But there’s nothing “magical” or “preternatural” involved - the same can be done through exercise, “relaxation training”, or bio-feedback.

I’d recommend prudence here. By all means, if a particular set of physical exercises helps you, practice them. But do not subscribe to the baggage that goes along with them.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

RPRPsych,

thank you for that post. It certainly clarifies a few things, especially the fear of dark powers that one supposedly opens up to.

I have found the following info on a forum. A yoga instructor was explaining that what we call yoga ( a workout) is not correct. Yoga is a holistic lifestyle practice that includes the following steps: Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi. The 3rd step - Asana- is the workout we are discussing here: a series of connected streches and exercises, which is now commonly called ‘yoga’ around the world.

Obviously, I can’t reference anyone here given that the info came from a person I don’t know on a forum. Also, it seems that this instructor is another western ‘expert’ so the above poster who is in a better position to judge the quality of the info can conform if the explanation I got is correct. But from what I’ve read so far it seems that the exercise regime - asana- is not a spiritual thing and is therefore ok for Catholics to do.

 

[RPRPsych]

RPRPsych,

thank you for that post. It certainly clarifies a few things, especially the fear of dark powers that one supposedly opens up to.

I have found the following info on a forum. A yoga instructor was explaining that what we call yoga ( a workout) is not correct. Yoga is a holistic lifestyle practice that includes the following steps: Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi. The 3rd step - Asana- is the workout we are discussing here: a series of connected streches and exercises, which is now commonly called ‘yoga’ around the world.

Obviously, I can’t reference anyone here given that the info came from a person I don’t know on a forum. Also, it seems that this instructor is another western ‘expert’ so the above poster who is in a better position to judge the quality of the info can conform if the explanation I got is correct. But from what I’ve read so far it seems that the exercise regime - asana- is not a spiritual thing and is therefore ok for Catholics to do.

Always welcome! I think the fear of “dark powers” can be overstated at times, but can also be underestimated. I do believe in demons, I don’t go hunting for them everywhere I think false or confused beliefs can be just as dangerous, though. And there’s a lot of nonsense that is sometimes claimed by yoga enthusiasts, especially modern ones. (I once had a professor who claimed, without any evidence, that yoga worked by inducing epileptic seizures in the brain, which “washed out” mental disorders. This is not demonic, but just unscientific nonsense.)

And you have a good point - many of the physical techniques (or asanas as you’ve rightly termed them) are quite harmless in isolation. However, when it comes to techniques like “Om chanting” (chanting the Hindu “sacred syllable” Om), I would draw the line right there. Similarly, if a form of yoga claimed to “awaken the primeval serpent within me” or “deal with hidden energies”, I would firmly but politely say that I’d rather avoid it. Some things (or “dark forces” if you insist) aren’t worth dabbling with.

 

[PRmerger]

Please read the following guide to proper English grammar.

wikihow.com/Use-English-Punctuation-Correctly

Oh, my. When I see a post like that, and I see a post like this:

Either way, I agree with the idea that the Church is not likely to change it’s views on homosexuality any time soon.

it makes me compelled to post the following guide to proper use of “it’s” vs “its”.

grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/its_its.htm

 

[BettyBoop416]

grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/its_its.htm

Great website. Its now in it’s new place on my bookmarks bar.

 

[Viviphilia]

Oh, my. When I see a post like that, and I see a post like this:

it makes me compelled to post the following guide to proper use of “it’s” vs “its”.

grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/its_its.htm

Oh hi PRmerger. Would you do me a favor? As you’re stalking the rest of my posts, would you count up how many times I make that typo? I figured I do it very rarely but I was wondering just how rarely. If you could just send me a PM of the exact ratio, that would be super!

Oh and by the way, the thread topic is yoga. Any comments about the thread topic or are you only here to criticize me? I thought this was an informative thread with a lively debate from several sides. You might want to read through it if you don’t know much about yoga, or if you want to understand how other folks think about the thread topic.

 

[PRmerger]

Oh hi PRmerger. Would you do me a favor? As you’re stalking the rest of my posts, would you count up how many times I make that typo? I figured I do it very rarely but I was wondering just how rarely. If you could just send me a PM of the exact ratio, that would be super!

Did you check out the website, Viv? Knowing when to use “it’s” vs “its” should help you avoid those, um, “typos.”

(Also, when you address someone, you’re supposed to preface it with a comma. Just wanted to point out that “typo” you made, too.)

Oh and by the way, the thread topic is yoga. Any comments about the thread topic or are you only here to criticize me? I thought this was an informative thread with a lively debate from several sides. You might want to read through it if you don’t know much about yoga, or if you want to understand how other folks think about the thread topic.

This is a curious comment, given that you seem to reserve the right* for yourself *to make a post that mentions yoga–not at all–and to correct another poster’s grammar, but to have an intense dislike for someone doing the same to you.

I really did not relish doing the correction, Viv. But you set yourself up for it.

I would have had sooo much respect for you if you had said, "Oops! You are correct. I made a very basic grammatical error. And this is especially egregious because I just made such a very snide comment to another poster in which I corrected his grammar."

Not so much, though, eh?

However, even now, if you come back with a humble post saying, *“Ok. I see your point, PR. I set myself up for that correction with a supercilious comment towards another poster. I stand corrected.” *…

I would say: :aok:

And you would be a great defender and promoter of the charity and humility that Humanists can have.

However now, not so much.

In fact, while you are doing a search of *my *posts for any grammatical errors (which I am sure you are doing ), if you find any, you can post it here and I will say, “Thank you for the correction.”

I’m leaving for vacay today so will be gone for a few days. So we’ll see. what your response as a Humanist who is a “supporter of the principle of philosophic charity” is.

Oh, and I think stretching exercises are da bomb.

 

[PRmerger]

Great website. Its now in it’s new place on my bookmarks bar.

 

[Baelor]

This is a curious comment, given that you seem to reserve the right* for yourself *to make a post that mentions yoga–not at all–and to correct another poster’s grammar, but to have an intense dislike for someone doing the same to you.

“Not at all” should not be set off by dashes given its grammatical role in the rest of the sentence.

As a matter of style, parallelism is to be preferred. For example, instead of saying, “make a post that mentions yoga and to correct” etc., one ought to say “make a post that mentions yoga and corrects” etc.

In fact, while you are doing a search of *my *posts for any grammatical errors (which I am sure you are doing ), if you find any, you can post it here and I will say, “Thank you for the correction.”

I await my thank-you.

I’m leaving for vacay today so I will be gone for a few days.

Subject elision is ungrammatical when subordinating conjunctions are used, and are to be avoided as a matter of clarity when the grammar is ambiguous (as is the case with verbs in English, given the lack of conjugation, which makes subjects necessary for unambiguous readings).