Is it okay to deny christ in word to save your life if you have a family depending on you?

[Raxus]

Good answer. I think a pretty valid analogy to ask here would be “If I’m raped by a stranger, do I have to go to Confession for extramarital sex afterward?” If the answer is no, why not?

 

[Teek]

Circumstances of themselves cannot change the moral quality of acts themselves; they can make neither good nor right an action that is in itself evil.

Circumstances can modify the temporal punishment that is the wage of that sin. They can modify the relative gravity of that sin. They do not change that the sin is still grave (ie. mortal sin) or that the action is evil.

Denying God is objectively evil.
Denying God for fun and popularity is evil. Denying God to save your life so you can protect your children is still evil.
You can see that the two circumstances are very different levels of evil. The second is evil that is mitigated somewhat by circumstances. Still evil.

You cannot do evil so that good may come of it.

 

[De_Maria]

It is always bad to deny God/Christ. It doesn’t matter what the situation is. This is because the act of rejecting God is intrinsically evil.

But if someone has a gun to your head and tells you to say that you reject God or he will kill you, that is not a rejection of God. The person who has the gun to your head is rejecting God. You’re merely trying to save your life.

 

[De_Maria]

… I’d say to look towards the examples of the apostles. None of them denied Christ to stop their own persecution. They all endured their persecution unto death. And I know that at least Peter was married, so it’s more than likely that he left at least a wife behind.

Let’s do that. Let’s see, when the soldiers came for Christ the first time, how many Apostles stayed with Christ?

They all denied him, except John. And did God hold that against them?

 

[De_Maria]

But, if you can point me to official Church teaching on this particular subject (being told to deny Christ at the expense of one’s life),

I’m not aware of any that is that specific. We glean what we can from Catholic principles. Like the three requirements for mortal sin which you seem to already know about.

 

[De_Maria]

Could you please help me in what the church teaches and what God wants us to do in such a situation?

What God wants us to do? That’s a horse of a different color. I initially replied to the first part of your question, whether “it was ok”, for lack of a better term, to deny Christ under threat of death.

I guess I missed that part of your question. What God wants us to do.

I think Father Abraham exemplifies what God wants us to do. Here’s what Scripture says:

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

To apply that to the circumstance that you described, I think God would want that person to say, “If I reject Christ, I will save myself. And there is no guarantee that my children I will be able to protect my children. But if I die professing Christ, I know that He will protect my children.”

This attitude is exemplified in the story of the woman with the seven sons:

Martyrdom of a Mother and Her Seven Sons.

 

[De_Maria]

Circumstances can modify the temporal punishment that is the wage of that sin. They can modify the relative gravity of that sin. They do not change that the sin is still grave (ie. mortal sin) or that the action is evil.

Denying God is objectively evil.
Denying God for fun and popularity is evil. Denying God to save your life so you can protect your children is still evil.
You can see that the two circumstances are very different levels of evil. The second is evil that is mitigated somewhat by circumstances. Still evil.

You cannot do evil so that good may come of it.

Yes, they can. If you do not consent to the action but are forced to do it under pain of death, it is not a mortal sin.

So, question for you. Did St. Peter commit a mortal sin when he denied Christ, three times?

Yet Christ forgave him. Why? Because he repented. And that is the element that those who condemn the individual under duress are neglecting. Anyone believer who is forced to deny Christ is repenting for the sin he has committed even while he is committing it.

 

[PJM]

NO!

What your asking is exactly what MANY Catholic Martyrs HAVE DONE and we ALL are called to do if that is God’s will for us,

Oray very much
Patrick

 

[TheNeutral]

Question: Why would you not want to go to Heaven sooner? Assuming this hypothetical person is coming with a gun, all you have to do is (maybe) say a quiet confession to God to clear all remaining sins and then say “no” to his request, and you would instantly be with Jesus in eternity. Yes, your family would be hurt, and you should love them, but ultimately, you are commanded to love God before all others. The good news is that, if it’s a clean shot, it will likely only feel like getting pricked (if you feel anything), thereby making it instantaneous; an instant warping into Heaven.

Now, if they’re using a knife (ISIS, Antichrist (possibly), other Terrorists), the situation’s slightly different, albeit with the same principals; You should still confess and say “no” to their demands, but unlike in the previous scenario, perseverance will also be required. Considering your death wouldn’t be instantaneous, it is then important to remain steadfast to your decision–regardless of pain, even unto death.

While being present in a situation like this would seem like a nightmare of curse, it is actually a blessing in disguise; an invitation to join Christ in eternity and die for him.

(If any of this is incorrect or immoral, please feel free to correct me)

 

[TheLittleLady]

Because lies are sins. We cannot commit evil so that good may come of it.

 

[RandomAlias]

I think the question (in the title) has been analyzed from every angle at least 2 or 3 times over.

 

[stpurl]

If one is faced with a situation such as fear of one’s being killed, one should still pray for the grace to remain faithful. I mean, let’s face it. To argue that we are ‘needed for our family’ puts our family above God. Do we really think that God doesn’t CARE if ANY family loses a father, mother, child? Of course He does. Are we so certain that only ‘we’ have the power to maintain that family ‘finance’? That God will not provide?

scenario. Father, mother, kids, crazed gunman says to father, “Deny Christ or I’ll kill you”. “Well” thinks father, "I should be praying to God, let me be faithful. BUT if I die, I don’t have any more ‘say’ in what goes on, on earth. I won’t be there to provide for the kids, I won’t have any more sunsets, pizza, football games. My kids will be traumatized and they’ll probably wind up losers and my whole life will be worthless unless I’m there to control things, “So, um, yes, guy with pistol. I reject God. I don’t want to die”. “I knew it” says guy with pistol. “You’re a coward and a phony.”

Guy with pistol is taken out by SWAT team. Father and family leave.

Friendly priest tells father, “You didn’t do anything wrong.”
Mother and kids say how glad they are everything turned out OK.
But over time. . .even though they don’t quite know how to say it. . .they lose respect. Respect in father “He caved over what he said was the most important thing next to us. Why wouldn’t he cave if the guy asked him to reject US?”.
Respect for God, “So, nothing happened. It’s no big deal. So why make God a big deal?”
Respect for others “any crazy guy can hurt us, and there’s no GOD to help out. Why not just get what we want when we can?”

Mother divorces father 5 years later and ditches kids to ‘find herself’ among a group of similar ‘nones’.

Kids grow up, try drugs, shack up, lie, cheat, steal, never have a successful relationship.

Guess what? Everybody’s life got ruined ANYWAY, by father doing what he thought would KEEP the ruin away.

Here’s another scenario. Father says, “I can’t reject God. I love my family more than anything, but I wouldn’t have them without Him. . .and with Him, I will have them and love them still, for eternity, where I will pray for them”.
Crazy guy kills him, then in disbelief. . ."He really did believe’.

Crazy guy goes to jail. Becomes a believer. Mother and kids are sorrowful but proud that father did not ‘cave’. The kids, through their lives, when they are tempted, remember their father’s actions, “He trusted in God and he’s praying for us. What would he think of what I’m planning to do?” They also, with their mother, spend their lives trying to do good and love God “to the fullest” like the father did.
Even if there are lean times, sad times, poor times, they all feel that what matters is the inside and to have faith. Lives are richer, not 'because father died" but because father died ‘for God’.

 

[Elf01]

They all denied him, except John. And did God hold that against them?

Apart from John they all died as martyrs. Seems like they had to prove their faith later.

 

[Teek]

Yes, they can. If you do not consent to the action but are forced to do it under pain of death, it is not a mortal sin.

So, question for you. Did St. Peter commit a mortal sin when he denied Christ, three times?

Yet Christ forgave him. Why? Because he repented. And that is the element that those who condemn the individual under duress are neglecting. Anyone believer who is forced to deny Christ is repenting for the sin he has committed even while he is committing it.

You are free to choose to affirm your belief or not. You have deemed that living, for whatever reason, is more important than professing your faith in Christ. The reasons may be enormous. It is still a CHOICE. A deplorable heinous one to have to make.

St. Peter committed a mortal sin when he denied Christ. He probably evidenced the most clear case of true contrition in history afterwards.

I do not condemn the person under duress. I am discussing the objective nature of divine law. Whether you know it, like it, or believe it, objective truth remains true. Murder is objectively evil. The guy who kills this poor unfortunate hypothetical parent is guilty. Not condemned. Only God is the just judge. He is guilty of mortal sin, though.

You can have remorse for a sin while committing it, but you cannot repent while committing sin. That is an impossibility based on the meaning of “repent”. Repentance requires both sorrow for your action and your intent never to do it again. Which is a promise you cannot make while still committing the act.

 

[RandomAlias]

scenario. …“So, um, yes, guy with pistol. I reject God. I don’t want to die”… Mother divorces father 5 years later … Kids grow up, try drugs, shack up, lie, cheat, steal, never have a successful relationship. Guess what? Everybody’s life got ruined ANYWAY, by father doing what he thought would KEEP the ruin away.

Here’s another scenario. Father says, “I can’t reject God. I love my family more than anything, but I wouldn’t have them without Him. . .and with Him, I will have them and love them still, for eternity, where I will pray for them”. Crazy guy kills him, then in disbelief. . ."He really did believe’.

Crazy guy goes to jail. Becomes a believer. The kids, through their lives, when they are tempted, remember their father’s actions, “He trusted in God and he’s praying for us. What would he think of what I’m planning to do?” They also, with their mother, spend their lives trying to do good and love God “to the fullest” like the father did…

Excellent. This pair of scenarios reminds us of a very important truth, that we do not have as much control over our future as we might like to think.

It illustrates what can happen when we “Let go and let God,” trusting in God’s protection and providence.

Also reminds me of something St. Paul wrote: (1 Cor 1:25) “the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength,” and (1 Cor 3:19) “the wisdom of this world is foolishness in the eyes of God.”

 

[ChunkMonk]

It would be mortal sin. Consent would be there because you would have been given plenty of time to think it out. Non-consent exists when the person is intellectually incapable of giving consent or if the sin is habitual so it happens on instinct before you had a chance to think about it. Non-consent has nothing to do with potential consequences.

 

[Teek]

Let’s do that. Let’s see, when the soldiers came for Christ the first time, how many Apostles stayed with Christ?

They all denied him, except John. And did God hold that against them?

HANG ON!!

How on earth did they deny him? Did he ask them to come be crucified with him? They hid because they were afraid, sure. Because they thought they would be arrested and they didn’t know what was going on. Sure. But they did not deny him. They did not reject him. He didn’t call after them and they still ran away! They hid because they had no idea what to do, not because he told them what to do and they refused.

I guess I never thought of it that way—that they denied him. I still don’t see it. What could they have done in their circumstances to be more loyal to him? He did not want them to fight. He told them he had to be handed over. Peter disagreed with the plan because he loved Jesus and did not want to see him die, and Jesus rebuked him for wanting to stop him from doing the will of the Father! So the apostles may have wanted to storm the tribunal and rescue him, but still before them they could see Jesus’ anger when he rebuked Peter for trying to stop him. What could they do?

They did what they needed to do. They waited, and he came to them, and they did not deny him. They carried his message to the very last breath, every one of them.

And when they were told to deny him so that they might live, they refused. Every single one of them. (Except John, who also never denied him.)

 

[De_Maria]

You are free to choose to affirm your belief or not. You have deemed that living, for whatever reason, is more important than professing your faith in Christ. The reasons may be enormous. It is still a CHOICE.

A choice, but not a choice which is freely chosen.

A deplorable heinous one to have to make.

The person making the deplorable heinous choice is the one who chose to hold someone under threat of death. The one being forced to deny Christ is forced to make an exceedingly sad choice.

St. Peter committed a mortal sin when he denied Christ. He probably evidenced the most clear case of true contrition in history afterwards.

Exactly what any believer do if they were forced to deny Christ on pain of death.

I do not condemn the person under duress. I am discussing the objective nature of divine law. Whether you know it, like it, or believe it, objective truth remains true.

I agree. But what is the truth in this case?

Murder is objectively evil. The guy who kills this poor unfortunate hypothetical parent is guilty. Not condemned. Only God is the just judge. He is guilty of mortal sin, though.

Not if he is compelled to do it on pain of death. Someone already posted the Catechism on this.

You can have remorse for a sin while committing it,

Exactly what anyone compelled to commit a sin would do.

but you cannot repent while committing sin.

But you can afterward, as St. Peter did.

That is an impossibility based on the meaning of “repent”. Repentance requires both sorrow for your action and your intent never to do it again. Which is a promise you cannot make while still committing the act.

And none of that mitigates against the fact that one compelled to commit an evil deed is not guilty of mortal sin because he lacks the deliberate consent of will to do so.

 

[De_Maria]

HANG ON!!

Hang on sloopy!

How on earth did they deny him?

The way that Jesus prophesied they would.

Matt 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: …

Did he ask them to come be crucified with him? They hid because they were afraid, sure. Because they thought they would be arrested and they didn’t know what was going on. Sure. But they did not deny him. They did not reject him. He didn’t call after them and they still ran away! They hid because they had no idea what to do, not because he told them what to do and they refused.

They rejected Him out of fear.

I guess I never thought of it that way—that they denied him. I still don’t see it. What could they have done in their circumstances to be more loyal to him? He did not want them to fight. He told them he had to be handed over. Peter disagreed with the plan because he loved Jesus and did not want to see him die, and Jesus rebuked him for wanting to stop him from doing the will of the Father! So the apostles may have wanted to storm the tribunal and rescue him, but still before them they could see Jesus’ anger when he rebuked Peter for trying to stop him. What could they do?

Keep thinking about St. Peter.

Matt 26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee. 33 Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.

34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

They did what they needed to do. They waited, and he came to them, and they did not deny him. They carried his message to the very last breath, every one of them.

After they repented of their sin.

And when they were told to deny him so that they might live, they refused. Every single one of them. (Except John, who also never denied him.)

Many years later. And that is what can happen to any believer who denies Christ, against his will, in order to save his life. He will have another chance to redeem himself.

And even if the perpetrator lied and kills him anyway, we know that God is just and merciful.

 

[tweedlealice]

Salutations,
Well, we have other choices. 1. I am a Christian and my God loves you. CanI tell you about Him?
2-I am a Christian and NO WEAPON RAISED AGAINST ME WILL PROSPER! Have scripture memorized and keep quoting.
3- Speak Arabic=Salaam Alakem. KHAY HALIC? How are you? UMDILLILLA. Good. Anshallah is GOD WILLS IT. We are ppl of the Book. Muslims respect the Torah, the Bible. We are half brothers under Abraham. Isaac is ISRAEL. Ishmael is Arabs.
Christians are grafted on to the tree by blood of Jesus. There is an Islamic rule that goes like this: if an enemy enters your village and asks for help, you are to help him and provide shelter. Like Osama bin Laden sought shelter in Pakistan., We could use the premise that this plane under their control is their village. We ask for protection.
When Syrian Christians were being killed. They had no resistance. Jesus was the Lamb brought Ugg’s to the slaughter. I’m not afraid to die. But, trying to stop enemy to save others is my thinking.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice