Is it okay to only court infertile people b/c you don't want children?

[jfhh]

This is not anything I am planning to do at the moment but it is an idea I had. If this is okay with the church, then I wouldn’t have to worry about the whole contraception issue and could probably be more humble and open to theologian and church doctrine. I don’t even know how this could be done practically unless you already had a single friend whom you knew was infertile.

Anyway would this be okay? I know it is okay for an infertile person to marry or a person to marry an infertile person. That is NOT what I am asking. I just want to know if you would PREFER to not have any children but still would like to get married maybe, it would okay if this were feasible to just date infertile women. If this is okay with the church, maybe even a niche social website could be started just for people in that situation – not by me, but just an idea.

Please let me know if my question wasn’t clear

 

[jmcrae]

I think that would be a clear case of not being open to children, which would cause the marriage to be invalid.

People who marry infertile people without realizing that they are infertile, or if infertility comes into the marriage later on, there is no sin, but I don’t think you can set up the situation on purpose.

 

[LilyM]

Exactly - when you marry you vow to lovingly accept any children God may bless you with. You can’t with any honesty say ‘yes’ to that vow if you deliberately sought out a marital partner who was infertile because you don’t ever want to be blessed with children.

 

[rwoehmke]

Unless you date only women who have had cancer and a complete hysterectomy and carry a sign saying so, how are you going to know who is fertile and who is not? It doesn’t seem to me that one would have many dates if the target of the date was to get a complete physical workup ahead of time.

 

[MarcoPolo]

If your relations with the married person are open to fertility, I can’t see the Church condemning marrying a diagnosed “infertile” person even if you were attracted to that trait. I could be wrong.

 

[Charybdis]

The intent of not having any children would make this practice wrong as others have said. But one thing struck me in all of this: you may feel like this right now or are scared to possibly have children, but what might happen years down the road and you change your mind? What happens when you decide that you do want children? You’re stuck. You can always adopt, of course, but if you would have just gone down the normal route, you and your spouse could have children easily.

If you do not want children, then do not go through the act that causes them: sex!! Amazing how simple that can be!

 

[MarcoPolo]

Maybe this is one better for the ask the Apologist, but as I understand, the sin of being “not open to children” is if they practice artificial forms of birth control. Marrying an infertile person, even if that was a quality you liked, does not constitute artificial birth control. So how can that be sinful?

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe this is one better for the ask the Apologist, but as I understand, the sin of being “not open to children” is if they practice artificial forms of birth control. Marrying an infertile person, even if that was a quality you liked, does not constitute artificial birth control. So how can that be sinful?

I am under the impression that if a couple goes to a priest to be married, he asks them whether they are fertile. If one of them is known to be infertile before the wedding, they can’t be married in the Catholic Church.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I am under the impression that if a couple goes to a priest to be married, he asks them whether they are fertile. If one of them is known to be infertile before the wedding, they can’t be married in the Catholic Church.

Wow, I have never heard that “infertile” people can’t get married in the Catholic Church! What about widowed people who are like 70?

 

[jmcrae]

Wow, I have never heard that “infertile” people can’t get married in the Catholic Church! What about widowed people who are like 70?

I don’t know. But I have heard of people with war injuries, etc., being denied the Sacrament of Marriage in the Church.

 

[bluerose]

With all due respect, and I may be using the incorrect term here, is that being infertile is not an impediment to marriage UNLESS is it caused by an inability to perform the marriage act. I believe it is impotence that is actually the impediment?

My DH and I have been married 20 years, been open to children, but have not had any, probably due to the fact that my husband underwent aggressive cancer treatment prior to our wedding. If infertility is indeed an impediment to a valid marriage, then we have been living in sin for the last 20 years!

If, however, his treatments had rendered him incapable of having marital relations, then the church may have refused to marry us because he could not have consummated the marriage.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong!

 

[MarcoPolo]

If, however, his treatments had rendered him incapable of having marital relations, then the church may have refused to marry us because he could not have consummated the marriage.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong!

I don’t think that’s correct either. Not automatically anyway. I believe a marriage can be valid apart from consummation, like Mary and Joseph. I skimmed over Canon Law on marriage, and saw stuff like: *Canon 109.1 Affinity arises from a valid marriage, even if not consummated, and it exists between the man and the blood relations of the woman, and likewise between the woman and the blood relations of the man.*But I’m no expert either! I’d still like to know if the Church would marry anyone who is capable of relations, but sterile. I tend to say yes, because the marriage would still be open to life if God so willed.

 

[puzzleannie]

makes an interesting topic for first-date discussion, don’t you think?

 

[Calliso]

The intent of not having any children would make this practice wrong as others have said. But one thing struck me in all of this: you may feel like this right now or are scared to possibly have children, but what might happen years down the road and you change your mind? What happens when you decide that you do want children? You’re stuck. You can always adopt, of course, but if you would have just gone down the normal route, you and your spouse could have children easily.

If you do not want children, then do not go through the act that causes them: sex!! Amazing how simple that can be!

This is why it is so important to be sure you donlt want children. It requires or should require a lot of thought. And things get especially tricky if you plan to marry. I am a married childfree person and I still have doubts if I have made the right decision to not have kids. And I got the feeling my husband has them once in a while too but not sure. But that being said the decision to have kids should also require a lot of thought because once the kid is born you can;t make it go back!

 

[JimG]

Infertility is not an impediment to a valid marriage in the Church.

Permanent and irreversible impotence is an impediment, because it would constitute an inability to consummate the marriage.

Like annie said, it would make for an interesting first-date discussion: “Hey, let’s get together over coffee, and discuss your fertility. If you’ve got medical records, bring 'em along!”

 

[Ruthie]

Maybe this is one better for the ask the Apologist, but as I understand, the sin of being “not open to children” is if they practice artificial forms of birth control. Marrying an infertile person, even if that was a quality you liked, does not constitute artificial birth control. So how can that be sinful?

You are wrong; not being open to children is not simply a matter of using birth control. ABC can be used to space children just like NFP; and you can use NFP to avoid children all together, if you are careful enough. (That’s why the Catechism says “just reasons.” Not *any *reason, but just ones.)

Entering marriage with the intent to avoid children is what makes the marriage invalid.

One can marry an infertile person without that intent. My DH and I did; as I am menopausal, it would take a miracle like Sarah’s or Elizabeth’s for me to have children. We’re open to that.

But to specifically seek out an infertile person demonstrates the wrong intent.

does that help?

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[jfhh]

Infertility is not an impediment to a valid marriage in the Church.

Permanent and irreversible impotence is an impediment, because it would constitute an inability to consummate the marriage.

Like annie said, it would make for an interesting first-date discussion: “Hey, let’s get together over coffee, and discuss your fertility. If you’ve got medical records, bring 'em along!”

I actually had the wild idea if what you SEEM to be saying is true, of starting some venture based on a tiny niche market.

edit

Just to clarify your post, it must also be “antecedent” impotence

 

[a_cermak]

Just to clarify your post, it must also be “antecedent” impotence. If one person becomes impotent after the fact, then the marriage is still valid. I’m not sure what the deal is if you don’t KNOW whether there is an impotence issue but one arises (it can arise from psychological reasons which are RELATIVE to the spouse – canon law mentions that IIRC)

But that kind of impotence isn’t what’s usually meant. They mean irreversible and permanent. Not being able to … ahem … perform all the time or even most of the time is not the same as being paralyzed from the neck down and therefore being able to have relations at all ever (although, the technology is improving and the Church does allow technology to assist here, so permanent would be a hard thing to claim because technology is always improving).

 

[jfhh]

But that kind of impotence isn’t what’s usually meant. They mean irreversible and permanent. Not being able to … ahem … perform all the time or even most of the time is not the same as being paralyzed from the neck down and therefore being able to have relations at all ever (although, the technology is improving and the Church does allow technology to assist here, so permanent would be a hard thing to claim because technology is always improving).

Here’s a commentary by canonists on the Code of Canon Law. It discusses the issues I had raised. Hopefully this link will work for you.

books.google.com/books?id=JKgZEjvB5cEC&pg=PA1285&lpg=PA1285

 

[thistle]

I am under the impression that if a couple goes to a priest to be married, he asks them whether they are fertile. If one of them is known to be infertile before the wedding, they can’t be married in the Catholic Church.

That is not correct.
Infertility is not a bar to a Catholic marriage.
Impotence, on the other hand, is a bar to marriage.