Is it our place to prevent Homosexual Marriages?

[Symux]

The Bible is pretty explicit in that God does not approve of homosexual activity, so I am not arguing that.

God gave us free will. I take this to mean the ability to follow and abide by his teachings, or to reject him and disobey.

Who are we to force others to adhere to God, when he gave them free will as well? It wasn’t just given to us who believe.

Having said this, I think it is very wrong of those churches who hold homosexual marriage/blessing ceremonies. In my view, such unions could be formed on the basis of man’s law, but never by God. He would not sanction such a thing, and for a church to do so is saying that it is alright by God.

I am from Ontario Canada, and we have legalized homosexual marriage. Why is it wrong for us to have done so? It is not my place to judge my neighbor for the activities he performs with his partner. They don’t do it out in the open for me to see.

Wearing Condoms is wrong, sex without intent to have children is wrong, lying is also very much hated by God.

These things are done every day by Christians and Catholics alike, and yet we condemn homosexuals. Lust is a sin for all, yet God forgives us.

The anger displayed against homosexuals, where is that coming from? Why do we feel it is our place to put moral judgment on them, or to force them into obedience of God?

Catholic and Protestant Christians alike argue against these unions. Is there something I am missing?

 

[Scottgun]

Wearing Condoms is wrong, sex without intent to have children is wrong, lying is also very much hated by God.

These things are done every day by Christians and Catholics alike, and yet we condemn homosexuals. Lust is a sin for all, yet God forgives us.

I commend you for your judge not, lest ye be judged approach, but we have to be careful. You will notice there are no Liar’s Pride Parades. Also, few people announce to the world that they are contracepting, but legalizing same sex unions is basically shouting to the whole world that homosex is good and we’ve just invented a legal fiction to say so.

The anger displayed against homosexuals, where is that coming from? Why do we feel it is our place to put moral judgment on them, or to force them into obedience of God?

Unjust anger of course has no place in Catholicism and anyone guilty of it should repent. No one has talked of force to my knowledge. That is, Swiss guards don’t kick in people’s doors to make sure there is no male-on-male depravity going on. But what is impossible to miss is the public onslaught to normalize homosex. And that we must not fail to speak against.

Catholic and Protestant Christians alike argue against these unions. Is there something I am missing?

Possibly, see, as the vatican document here says, regarding the legalization of such unions (no matter what name you give them by the way) , “clear and emphatic opposition is a duty**.”**

 

[Symux]

Possibly, see, as the vatican document here says, regarding the legalization of such unions (no matter what name you give them by the way) , “clear and emphatic opposition is a duty**.”**

Thank-you. This is the information I needed to hear. I didn’t believe everyone was wrong, but I still failed to understand. I read the document, and this quote sums it up nicely.

Those who would move from tolerance to the legitimization of specific rights for cohabiting homosexual persons need to be reminded that the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil.

 

[VARC]

The Bible is pretty explicit in that God does not approve of homosexual activity, so I am not arguing that.

God gave us free will. I take this to mean the ability to follow and abide by his teachings, or to reject him and disobey.

Who are we to force others to adhere to God, when he gave them free will as well? It wasn’t just given to us who believe.

Having said this, I think it is very wrong of those churches who hold homosexual marriage/blessing ceremonies. In my view, such unions could be formed on the basis of man’s law, but never by God. He would not sanction such a thing, and for a church to do so is saying that it is alright by God.

I am from Ontario Canada, and we have legalized homosexual marriage. Why is it wrong for us to have done so? It is not my place to judge my neighbor for the activities he performs with his partner. They don’t do it out in the open for me to see.

Wearing Condoms is wrong, sex without intent to have children is wrong, lying is also very much hated by God.

These things are done every day by Christians and Catholics alike, and yet we condemn homosexuals. Lust is a sin for all, yet God forgives us.

The anger displayed against homosexuals, where is that coming from? Why do we feel it is our place to put moral judgment on them, or to force them into obedience of God?

Catholic and Protestant Christians alike argue against these unions. Is there something I am missing?

Nobody in the USA is condemning homosexuals. Homosexual behavior is perfectly legal, just like lying, wearing condoms and having sex without the intent to have children.

The USA is a democracy and as such the people get to decide what a marriage is and what is not. Gays will just have to accept that the overwheming majority of citizens in this country do not want to view their homosexual relationships as worthy of government sanction.

Nobody is persecuting them. They are free to sleep with whomever they want. But they do not have the right to force their beliefs on the majority by demanding that everyone view homosexual relations as anything but a sin.

 

[BartBurk]

The biggest problem with gay marriage is the message it sends to society about marriage. I don’t see where it ends once you approve gay marriage.

The other problem is a problem you should be well aware of in Canada. Hate speech laws are passed making any condemnation of homosexual relations illegal. That means Christians are barred from speaking about Biblical morality with regards to homosexuality. If they speak out they are brought before a court and charged with a hate crime. Christians will eventually be forced to perform gay marriages or be charged with discrimination. It’s a slippery slope as soon as gay marriage is accepted in a society which will eventually lead to persecution of Christians.

 

[ralphinal]

The biggest problem with gay marriage is the message it sends to society about marriage. I don’t see where it ends once you approve gay marriage.

The other problem is a problem you should be well aware of in Canada. Hate speech laws are passed making any condemnation of homosexual relations illegal. That means Christians are barred from speaking about Biblical morality with regards to homosexuality. If they speak out they are brought before a court and charged with a hate crime. Christians will eventually be forced to perform gay marriages or be charged with discrimination. It’s a slippery slope as soon as gay marriage is accepted in a society which will eventually lead to persecution of Christians.

You are dead on. As long as the state recognizes religious weddings, this is where we are headed.

we must work to prevent this and pray as well.

 

[Corki]

The biggest problem with gay marriage is the message it sends to society about marriage. I don’t see where it ends once you approve gay marriage.

The other problem is a problem you should be well aware of in Canada. Hate speech laws are passed making any condemnation of homosexual relations illegal. That means Christians are barred from speaking about Biblical morality with regards to homosexuality. If they speak out they are brought before a court and charged with a hate crime. **Christians will eventually be forced to perform gay marriages or be charged with discrimination. ** It’s a slippery slope as soon as gay marriage is accepted in a society which will eventually lead to persecution of Christians.

I agree with everything you say except the bolded. I gather you are in Canada from what you posted. Gay marriage is already legal there, right? And it has been legal for many years in some European countries. The government cannot force the Church to perform gay marriages any more than it can be forced to marry any particular couple. It is always the priest who determines if a marriage can be celebrated. People are denied Catholic marriages for lots of reasons.

The speech issue is a serious threat to the Church but I disagree that anyone would be able to legally force Catholic gay marriages.

 

[bpbasilphx]

What is being done to prevent contraception and divorce and remarriage among heterosexuals and to make these practices illegal, too?

 

[strngrnrth]

It’s not that it should be illegal for two men to be married, anymore than it should be illegal for one and one to equal thirteen. They simply don’t. If math teachers were forced to fund and acknowledge legally a basic arithmetic class that taught that one and one equal thirteen, two, and fifty-two depending on what you want them to equal, it would be wrong for the same reason it’s wrong to force the new definition of marriage on those of us who beleive in a kind of marriage that just doesn’t equal two people of the same sex. If two men want to have a private ceremony and say they’re married socially, we aren’t trying to stop them. If they happen to ask me whether I see them as married, I’ll have to say I do not.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

To ALL of you who are against:
What have they ever done wrong to you ,
you wanna convince someone they are evil ??

Condoms: Well , glad they do exist !! Why ??
To prevent stupidity , like deceases ,
or are those deceases just punishments ??

Believe me , some really can’t hold their needs !!
I’m not promoting condoms , but be honest …
what would you do if you caught/catch your kids
in bed having sex with a drop-monkey you really hate ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), november 10, 2008

 

[Gamera]

… I am from Ontario Canada, and we have legalized homosexual marriage. Why is it wrong for us to have done so? It is not my place to judge my neighbor for the activities he performs with his partner. They don’t do it out in the open for me to see…

Is your question why homosexual “marriage” should be illegal, or why homosexual acts should be illegal? They’re two different questions. Sex acts generally aren’t “out in the open” but marriage is very much “out in the open” – it’s a public union.

The purpose of banning “gay marriage” isn’t to stop gays from committing homosexual acts. The purpose of restricting marriage to male/female unions is to protect the institution of marriage. The family is the fundamental unit of society. Society has a vested interest in protecting its fundamental unit. If people get to invent their own definitions of “marriage,” what’s to stop polygamy?

 

[Gamera]

To ALL of you who are against:
What have they ever done wrong to you ,
you wanna convince someone they are evil ??

The purpose of limiting marriage to male/female unions has nothing to do with gays being punished or being told they are evil. Marriage isn’t something people get to invent their own definitions for. Marriage is a basic building block of our society and society has a compelling need to protect it.

 

[FightingFat]

The Bible is pretty explicit in that God does not approve of homosexual activity

Is it?

It is not easy to do justice to the Biblical question in such a small space but I would argue that an honest appraisal may draw the conclusion that the texts are not conclusive either way.We must use sound exegetical principles, and be aware of our preconceptions when we come to scripture. There is a need for honest wrestling with the texts and a need for prayerful listening to the texts.

Gen 2:24 – God’s plan for the union of Man and Woman. This soon becomes bound up in the fall and original sin – they hide from each other.

Gen 19:1-11 - Sodom
Most of the OT references to this passage describe the sin of Sodom as being one of lacking the courtesies of hospitality. In the NT Jude 6-7 does refer to it as a sexual sin.
The CDF in Homosexualis Problema notes that this is a clear moral judgement against homosexual relations. Some look as the passage in context with the previous chapter, where Abraham and Sarah are described as paragons of hospitality. Note Sodom is condemned even before the incident in consideration – it is not clear exactly what it is condemned for – ‘how grave their sin.”
The men of Sodom don’t know that the visitors are Angels – they think them men – This is clearly an attempted group rape. This may not help us much in our consideration of Homosexuality.
It is also concerning in our minds that Lot offers his virgin daughters – this signifies that Lots considers them his property……

Leviticus 18:22 / 20:13
This is part of the Holiness Code that YHWH give to his people and seems to be the clearest condemnation of homosexual practices in scripture. Some argue that it refers to cultic prostitution – but the logic is not right – it would imply that female prostitution was allowed.
Gareth Moore OP in his book “A Question of Truth” describes the power notions that are implied in sex in the OT. Adultery was wrong – but not because one broke vows – rather because one penetrates another and therefore made them your property. He wonders if this verse condemns only penetration.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
The greek words are difficult to translate – they are happax’s – only appear one time in the whole of scripture.
Malakoi – can be translated as

• Soft
• Feminine
• Rent boy
• By derivation – passive – the one penetrated.

*Asenokatai *- hard

• customer
• active – the penetrator.

So this could be condemning pederasty or prostitution or other relationships where power was not equal.

Romans 1:22-27
Appears to concentrate on insatiable lust – using it as an analogy for worshipping false gods.

Paul would have had no concept of homosexuality as part of someone’s makeup or nature – Scruggs – asks what might Paul have been thinking of , in common with other commentators, would have seen it as almost as concupiscence – insatiable.
Would have be thinking of pederasty. This is the only instance where Lesbianism is mentioned.

So- here do we go from here? It is useful and important to note that the paradigm in Scripture is marriage. Esp. the image of the Church as the bride of Christ. Of this there is almost no dispute within the church.

Scholars have argued that the Biblical writers were addressing something other than the homosexuality that we know today. They were addressing questions of lack of power/consent, rape, prostitution and hospitality. Others are clear about the veracity of the condemnation – such as the CDF.

Pastorally we remain with a problem – the tradition and teaching of the Church is clearly against homosexual sexual acts – scripture may not be quite so clear as we are led to believe.

Within this debate, we must remember the many gay Christians who are trying to be faithful to the vision of the Church as they live within the body of Christ.

 

[ralphinal]

To ALL of you who are against:
What have they ever done wrong to you ,
you wanna convince someone they are evil ??

I do not think that any group of people are inherently evil. I do think that some acts that some people do are evil. And some are disordered.

No matter how you want to spin it, there is no reason to allow for homosexual marriage. Employers have the right to extend benefits to domestic partners. You can leave your property to whomever you want. ANyway, people make a choice to marry or not. If you choose to live the homosexual life style, you choose not to marry.

Condoms: Well , glad they do exist !! Why ??
To prevent stupidity , like deceases ,
or are those deceases just punishments ??

But they DON’T. Think about this, a condom has like a 78% success rate. That means that one in four do not work to limit exposure to sperm. HIV, for example, is smaller than a sperm. So, if you are messing around with them, you still have a 25% chance of catching something. Safe sex is a MYTH.

Believe me , some really can’t hold their needs !!
I’m not promoting condoms , but be honest …
what would you do if you caught/catch your kids
in bed having sex with a drop-monkey you really hate ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), november 10, 2008

You are correct that many people have poor impulse control. That is why we need to teach people how to be in control of their desires. AT NO POINT IN TIME DOES A HUMAN HAVE TO HAVE SEX.

Now, I have a son. If I caught him in bed with someone, they both better be FAST. He is seven, so I am not worried about it yet.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Have some of you realized that they are now forced to teach to your kids in alot of schools that homosexuality is acceptible, soon to reach your childs school, it will soon be classes to teach children how to have sex wtih each other. How is this issue much different than the abortion issue? because some say we shouldnt judge, I think the kill count is somewhere around 54 million. I guess we better not try to help them or homosexuals because we might judge them.

Did you know the average death of a homosexual is 45 years old? We are to help them, there are thousands of ex-homo’s out there that everyone trys to keep quiet, Ive met one, man did he love his wife.

 

[SIA]

The Bible is pretty explicit in that God does not approve of homosexual activity, so I am not arguing that.

God gave us free will. I take this to mean the ability to follow and abide by his teachings, or to reject him and disobey.

Who are we to force others to adhere to God, when he gave them free will as well? It wasn’t just given to us who believe.

Having said this, I think it is very wrong of those churches who hold homosexual marriage/blessing ceremonies. In my view, such unions could be formed on the basis of man’s law, but never by God. He would not sanction such a thing, and for a church to do so is saying that it is alright by God.

I am from Ontario Canada, and we have legalized homosexual marriage. Why is it wrong for us to have done so? It is not my place to judge my neighbor for the activities he performs with his partner. They don’t do it out in the open for me to see.

Wearing Condoms is wrong, sex without intent to have children is wrong, lying is also very much hated by God.

These things are done every day by Christians and Catholics alike, and yet we condemn homosexuals. Lust is a sin for all, yet God forgives us.

The anger displayed against homosexuals, where is that coming from? Why do we feel it is our place to put moral judgment on them, or to force them into obedience of God?

Catholic and Protestant Christians alike argue against these unions. Is there something I am missing?

Civil unions recognized by the state for the purpose of inherritances, domestic issues absolutely, but not marriage. Marriage can only exist between a man and a woman. What God has joined together, let no man put asunder. If two people of the same sex wish to be together, fine. But, it cannot be called marriage no matter what.

 

[ralphinal]

Civil unions recognized by the state for the purpose of inherritances, domestic issues absolutely, but not marriage. Marriage can only exist between a man and a woman. What God has joined together, let no man put asunder. If two people of the same sex wish to be together, fine. But, it cannot be called marriage no matter what.

EXACTLY!

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Is it a coincidence that MA legalized gay marriage and a father was arrested in MA because he asked the teachers in the kindergarten to leave out his 5-year old kid from their gay curriculum and let him simply not attend when they teach and promote such issues? I don’t know how far it will go, but looks like persecution against Christians. I heard Catholic adoption agencies went out of business in MA because the state wanted to force them to place children with “gay married” couples.

Also watch out for FOCA. The Freedom of Choice Act is bound to trample pro-life pharmacists’ and doctors’ freedom to choose not to carry and dispense abortion inducing drugs and birth control pills, not to perform abortions etc. I guess next they will force out of business those hospitals and pharmacies that uphold the pro-life ethics.

Also, will it be considered hate speech if a psychologist or doctor will advise and help, lovingly and politely, a gay person to break with his lifestyle?

 

[PerryJ]

I agree with everything you say except the bolded. I gather you are in Canada from what you posted. Gay marriage is already legal there, right? And it has been legal for many years in some European countries. The government cannot force the Church to perform gay marriages any more than it can be forced to marry any particular couple. It is always the priest who determines if a marriage can be celebrated. People are denied Catholic marriages for lots of reasons.

The speech issue is a serious threat to the Church but I disagree that anyone would be able to legally force Catholic gay marriages.

In Canda I thought they could no longer state it was wrong because it would be defined as a hate crime.

The Bishop now state that if FOCA is passed that Catholic Hospitals will have to be close because they would have to perform abortions.

What we used to believe would never happen is happening. Clearly the Church is not allowed first amendmant rights any longer.

 

[Corki]

In Canda I thought they could no longer state it was wrong because it would be defined as a hate crime.

What we used to believe would never happen is happening. Clearly the Church is not allowed first amendmant rights any longer.

I believe you are right about the hate crime but that is for speaking out against ‘gay’ rights and ‘gay marriage’. I don’t think hate speech covers what is said privately to a couple by a priest. In any case, the priest can simply say the couple is not disposed to receive the sacrament (which they aren’t) no further reason need be given.