Is it possible to prove that a good God exists?

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bzkoss236 said:
I think you misunderstand what hell is. You seem to think that God sends people to hell when they don’t worship him because he’s a whiny child who wants his way. This isn’t the case.

Hell is a natural consequence, a state of agony, when you separate yourself from that which is good. If you take away good, you are left with the bad. This isn’t God’s intention, this is just what happens. God doesn’t send us to hell, we send ourselves.

If you choose not to go to work for an entire week without notifying your boss and without reason, you will be fired. That is a natural consequence.

If you choose never to go to class or study for your exams and never learn the material, you will fail the course. That is the natural consequence for your actions.

If you choose to separate yourself from goodness, you are left only with that which is not good, this is hell.

God isn’t the child with the magnifying glass that many atheists make him out to be. He is a parent that wants the best for his rebellious children.
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I would never punish my children for eternity for a single error.
 
Boulder257 said:
I am always intrigued by why someone with your system of belief chooses to join and be active in a religious, and in this case, Catholic forum. Out of true curiosity, why did you join and what do you hope to accomplish?
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I see religion as a slaver that preys on people. If I am able to offer even one person an alternative to this continued master/slave relationship then i will continue to do so. Further what better place than here to debate with believers to find the newest and best refutations to what i believe.
 
sealoch said:
I see religion as a slaver that preys on people. If I am able to offer even one person an alternative to this continued master/slave relationship then i will continue to do so. Further what better place than here to debate with believers to find the newest and best refutations to what i believe.
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Why should we believe what you see, is a correct representation of reality?
 
sealoch said:
I see religion as a slaver that preys on people. If I am able to offer even one person an alternative to this continued master/slave relationship then i will continue to do so. Further what better place than here to debate with believers to find the newest and best refutations to what i believe.
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Okay. Just so you are aware, the site has a ban on atheist threads, so you won’t be allowed to proselytize atheism. See here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=410885
 
bzkoss236 said:
Hell is real, but your understanding of hell is incorrect.
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My mistake so hell is not punishment it is just the absence of god all the non believers will exist in some form and continue living for all eternity? Which is what we have all been desiring all along.
 
sealoch said:
My mistake so hell is not punishment it is just the absence of god all the non believers will exist in some form and continue living for all eternity? Which is what we have all been desiring all along.
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Well said. Just like in this existence we are totally separated from God’s “love” and “caring”… if this is hell, it ain’t so bad. 🙂 But it is not… As Fr. John Furniss (what a “great” name!!)) has written a book about hell A sight of Hell and it was written for children. I have yet to see a more horrible book. A few short excerpts:
Approbation
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“I have carefully read over this Little Volume for Children and have found nothing whatsoever in it contrary to the doctrine of Holy Faith; but, on the contrary, a great deal to charm, instruct and edify our youthful classes, for whose benefit it has been written.”
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You are going to see again the child about which you read in the Terrible Judgement, that it was condemned to hell. See! It is a pitiful sight. The little child is in this red hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out. See how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor of the oven. You can see on the face of this little child what you see on the faces of all in hell – despair, desperate and horrible! The same law which is for others is also for children. If children, knowingly and willingly, break God’s commandments, they must also be punished like others. This child committed very bad mortal sins, knowing well the harm of what it was doing, and knowing that hell would be the punishment. God was very good to this child. Very likely God saw that this child would get worse and worse, and would never repent, and so it would have to be punished much more in hell. So God, in His mercy, called it out of the world in its early childhood.
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Not a punishment??? Come on!
 
bzkoss236 said:
How so? What about biology causes morality?
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If you don’t understand, I cannot help you.
bzkoss236 said:
I know what the reactions will be, and I know about the existence of good and evil, my question is about where it comes from.
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Irrelevant. Any and all ethical systems (which are founded on the principle of reciprocity) will affirm that committing / permitting atrocities are incompatible with “love” and “caring”.
 
sealoch said:
Of course he demands worship if you don’t you are supposedly condemned to hell that is a threat.
A good god would not make it so unsubstantial if this were the case such a condemnation would justly such a demand of evidence.
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You are confusing Christian worship with a pragmatic worship of power. If the principle of worshipping God is essentially about worshipping the most powerful, then Christianity is a cowards religion and that would be a good enough reason to reject it.

That is not the God of Christianity. In fact the God of Christianity specifically thinks it is an imperfect act to worship him for fear of hell, because that act in itself is a selfish act because you are not doing it because you want to love.

God commands us to Worship Love (which is God himself), because that is the only possible way to heaven. Thus God knows that our happiness and spiritual fulfilment is dependent on us freely choosing to participate in the expression and worship of Love; since only true happiness is found in union with perfect love.

It is not a fret or some kind of artificial arrangement as if he created some dungeon to torture us but did not have to. Rather, it is a metaphysical necessity that God is the source of our eternal happiness and that we should love as God commands us. It is not for his benefit but our own.
 
Bagheera said:
If you don’t understand, I cannot help you.

Irrelevant. Any and all ethical systems (which are founded on the principle of reciprocity) will affirm that committing / permitting atrocities are incompatible with “love” and “caring”.
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All this says to me is that you are dancing around the question because you don’t actually have an answer.

The source of good is not irrelevant because if you can recognize the source then you can better and more accurately determine what is good vs what is bad. Thus, ethics can be better determined, and then an increase in universal happiness follows.
 
Linux said:
You are confusing Christian worship with a pragmatic worship of power. If the principle of worshipping God is essentially about worshipping the most powerful, then Christianity is a cowards religion and that would be a good enough reason to reject it.

That is not the God of Christianity. In fact the God of Christianity specifically thinks it is an imperfect act to worship him for fear of hell, because that act in itself is a selfish act because you are not doing it because you want to love.

God commands us to Worship Love, because that’s what God is. Thus God knows that our happiness and spiritual fulfilment is dependent on us freely choosing to participate in the expression and worship of Love; since only true happiness is found in perfect love.

It is not a fret or some kind of artificial arrangement as if he created some dungeon to torture us but did not have to. Rather, it is a metaphysical necessity that God is the source of our eternal happiness.
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I do not believe that this point of view will really be accepted as far as the mainstream religion goes, but i would not be opposed to this i guess. Worshiping love, not sure how that would be done.
Regardless this wouldn’t solve or further the future of humanity.
 
sealoch said:
Regardless this wouldn’t solve or further the future of humanity.
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So, modern science, art, and schools don’t further humanity? These all came out of religion and love for one another.
 
Linux said:
It is not a fret or some kind of artificial arrangement as if he created some dungeon to torture us but did not have to. Rather, it is a metaphysical necessity that God is the source of our eternal happiness and that we should love as God commands us. It is not for his benefit but our own.
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👍 Indeed, our worshiping God can do nothing to improve God.
 
sealoch said:
I do not believe that this point of view will really be accepted as far as the mainstream religion goes, but i would not be opposed to this i guess. Worshiping love, not sure how that would be done.
Regardless this wouldn’t solve or further the future of humanity.
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Well, if the whole human race understood love and truly and perfectly worshipped it, then surely human beings would act in a manner that was caring of the well-being and value of other fellow humans. No one would be selfish; selfishness being the problem that preoccupies human beings today.

Worship is not just going to the temple on Sunday, it is an active expression of love, it is the act of allowing God’s will which is love to be expressed through us. We are called to be vessels or mediums of Love. We are called to be servants of Love.

In a sense, people must freely choose to be possessed by love at any and every particular instant of our lives.
 
sealoch said:
I would never punish my children for eternity for a single error.
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You don’t believe in God and sin, so I won’t go there.

What I find interesting is the idea of a single error and its consequences.

This summer a local mom was busy doing what mom’s do. In a brief instant of inattention, her three-year-old opened the screen door and jumped into their pool, never to breathe again.

That family is instantly transformed. How can there ever to be joy again?

My friend, you have nothing to offer anyone.

In your quest to deny the consequences of your actions here on earth, you would bring many others with you, depriving them of the solace and ultimate joy that we are offered in Christ.
 
Linux said:
Well, if the whole human race understood love and truly and perfectly worshipped it, then surely human beings would act in a manner that was caring of the well-being and value of other fellow humans. No one would be selfish; selfishness being the problem that preoccupies human beings today.

Worship is not just going to the temple on Sunday, it is an active expression of love, it is the act of allowing God’s will which is love to be expressed through us. We are called to be vessels or mediums of Love. We are called to be servants of Love.

In a sense, people must freely choose to be possessed by love at any and every particular instant of our lives.
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I must honestly say that if every person believed this the world would undoubtedly be different.
 
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