Is it possible to vote democrat because you think they would do more against abortion?

[estesbob]

Is it possible to vote democrat if you think they would help lower abortions?

I’m wondering since I see a lot of people voting democrat but at the same time some say that such a vote is a mortal sin. But if it were so, I doubt that people would continue something as controllable as voting so…

To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year’s ‘‘real’’ prolife candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse. To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means.

Archbishop Charles Chaput

“*No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,” *

*Cardinal Raymond Burke

 

[estesbob]

There was a thread about this recently. It seem to come down to this:

1. A few people were convinced that any vote for any Democrat at any time is a mortal sin, since one of the planks of the D party is abortion on demand.
2. A few smattering of other various opinions.
3. The Church teaching, which says that one cannot vote for a pro-abortion candidate precisely so that that candidate could further the abortion agenda.

A correct interpretation of this teaching means that one can vote for a pro-life Democrat candidate and one can vote for a pro-choice candidate for strategic reasons.

One example of strategic voting is if there is a non-commital or Pro-life Democrat running against a Pro-choice or non-commital Republican. IF, under this scenario, the Democrat gets into office, it will tilt the power to the Democratic party and they are free to do whatever they please to increase the number of abortions. If the Republican gets elected, the power is with the Republicans, who as a party will oppose abortions.

In this instance, IF one was voting for a Pro-choice Republican in order to strategically limit or reduce the number of abortions, such would be morally acceptable; one would not be voting for that candidate precisely to increase abortion, rather, the opposite.

There are probably other strategic situations, but the point is one’s intent in the result. Granted, such a situation would be rare, but it illustrates the principle behind voting to end or limit abortions.

Their is no such thing as “strategic” voting as far as the Church is concerned. It is a term some Catholics use to try and rationalize supporting pro-abortion canidates. Archbishop Chaput speaks to these types of mental gymnasitcs:

*Efforts to reduce abortions, or to create alternatives to abortion, or to foster an environment where more women will choose to keep their unborn child, can have great merit–but not if they serve to cover over or distract from the brutality and fundamental injustice of abortion itself. We should remember that one of the crucial things that set early Christians apart from the pagan culture around them was their rejection of abortion and infanticide. Yet for thirty-five years I’ve watched prominent “pro-choice” Catholics justify themselves with the kind of moral and verbal gymnastics that should qualify as an Olympic event. All they’ve really done is capitulate to Roe v. Wade.

 

[mary_bobo]

Actions do speak louder than words - and the reason why most women are having abortions isn’t because they are worried that financially they couldn’t support a child, but because they feel they “aren’t ready” or the boyfriend/husband/family is pressuring her into it.

The toxic attitude of the secular left, which the democrat party often embraces, teaches that birth control is a basic human right, children are burdens and not blessings, overpopulation is a problem, and sex should be had by all unrestricted. It is this Culture of Death (as the pope called it) that creates a would where nearly 1/3rd of all woman obtain an abortion…NOT financial ruin. (statistic from Planned Parenthood’s own website)

plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/abortion-4260.asp

In reviewing thousands of charts as part of Quality Assurance in hospitals, I found that most abortions were ones of convenience rather than poverty. And it was not unusual to see a woman have several more than one for the same reason.

 

[Gift_from_God]

Is it possible to vote democrat if you think they would help lower abortions?

Doesn’t matter either way. The GOP only claims it opposed abortion. You guys had Ford, Reagan, and the Bush’s, and you still have legal abortion.

some say that such a vote is a mortal sin.

That is not Church teaching at all. It’s just a falsehood propagated by a bunch of right-wingers trying to use religion to get people to vote their way

 

[estesbob]

Doesn’t matter either way. The GOP only claims it opposed abortion. You guys had Ford, Reagan, and the Bush’s, and you still have legal abortion.

That is not Church teaching at all. It’s just a falsehood propagated by a bunch of right-wingers trying to use religion to get people to vote their way

Thank you for your opinion. Now can you post any Church document or statement from a member of the Magestrium to back up your opinions?

I have posted excerpts from vatican documents and direct quotes from the pope, Bishops and cardinals all stating the same thing. You can not vote for a pro-abortion canidate unless their opponent is more pro-abortion than they are.

Abortion will remain legal in this country until such time as Catholic Democrats come to love the unborn more than they hate the GOP.

 

[Gift_from_God]

I have posted excerpts from vatican documents and direct quotes from the pope, Bishops and cardinals all stating the same thing. You can not vote for a pro-abortion canidate unless their opponent is more pro-abortion than they are.

That is their opinion, not Church teaching. I don’t care for their opinions.

Abortion will remain legal in this country until such time as Catholic Democrats come to love the unborn more than they hate the GOP.

You had Ford, Reagan, and the Bush’s and abortion is still legal. You’re statement is irrational

 

[estesbob]

That is their opinion, not Church teaching. I don’t care for their opinions.



You had Ford, Reagan, and the Bush’s and abortion is still legal. You’re statement is irrational

Again if you can quote Church teaching to back up your political views please do so.

 

[Gift_from_God]

Again if you can quote Church teaching to back up your political views please do so.

There is no Church teaching, Bob

 

[estesbob]

There is no Church teaching, Bob

I have posted documents and direct quotes from members of the Magestrium stateing the Church teaching on this if you have something to refute it’ other than your “opinion” pleased so. The fact you dismiss any teaching that conflicts with your political views as "opinion " does not make it so

 

[Gift_from_God]

I have posted documents and direct quotes from members of the Magestrium stateing the Church teaching on this if you have something to refute it’ other than your “opinion” pleased so. The fact you dismiss any teaching that conflicts with your political views as "opinion " does not make it so

Bob, I don’t think you know the difference between Church teaching and people’s opinions. If it’s their opinion, I don’t care for it. Just because a Cardinal or Bishop or even the Pope says it as a matter of opinion, it doesn’t make it true.

 

[estesbob]

Bob, I don’t think you know the difference between Church teaching and people’s opinions. If it’s their opinion, I don’t care for it. Just because a Cardinal or Bishop or even the Pope says it as a matter of opinion, it doesn’t make it true.

No surprise here You can’t back up your assertions with any references whatsoever to Church documents or official statements. You are engaged in the kind of mental gymnastics Archbishop Chaput says are common among pro-abortion Catholics

 

[Gift_from_God]

No surprise here You can’t back up your assertions with any references whatsoever to Church documents or official statements.

You haven’t backed up your statements. You keep saying “I have quotes” and the truth is, these people you cite are stating opinions. Opinions are not Church teachings. You’re a grown adult, you should know that. I can probably find Priests and Bishops who say abortion is perfectly moral, but that wouldn’t make them correct

You are engaged in the kind of mental gymnastics Archbishop Chaput says are common among pro-abortion Catholics

 

[estesbob]

You haven’t backed up your statements. You keep saying “I have quotes” and the truth is, these people you cite are stating opinions. Opinions are not Church teachings. You’re a grown adult, you should know that.


I don’t care what Chaput says

Again if you can post anything from the Church to back up your opinions please do so. You have been provided documentation explaining Church teaching bThe fact you place your politics ahead of your faith does not change that.

 

[fakename]

No surprise here You can’t back up your assertions with any references whatsoever to Church documents or official statements. You are engaged in the kind of mental gymnastics Archbishop Chaput says are common among pro-abortion Catholics

Nonetheless, how is this refuted by the Church:

Just because someone is pro-abortion doesn’t mean that they will kill people during their term of office and just because someone is anti-abortion doesn’t necessitate that person stopping abortion in his official term. So then why can’t one vote for the pro-abortion candidate not as such, but per some other quality?

 

[Gift_from_God]

Again if you can post anything from the Church to back up your opinions please do so.

Bob, if there is no position, than there is no document affirming it. Yet, if it was Church teaching that I can’t vote for a candidate that supports abortion, that document would exist, which you haven’t presented

 

[Gift_from_God]

Just because someone is pro-abortion doesn’t mean that they will kill people during their term

Just because they are supporting it, doesn’t mean they are carrying the act out, hence they aren’t killing anyone themselves

 

[estesbob]

Nonetheless, how is this refuted by the Church:

Just because someone is pro-abortion doesn’t mean that they will kill people during their term of office and just because someone is anti-abortion doesn’t necessitate that person stopping abortion in his official term. So then why can’t one vote for the pro-abortion candidate not as such, but per some other quality?

Because there are no qualities that can mitigate ones support for abortion. All rights flow from the right to life without life all other rights are meaningless

 

[fakename]

Because there are no qualities that can mitigate ones support for abortion. All rights flow from the right to life without life all other rights are meaningless

But how does that answer “just because they believe it, it doesn’t mean that they will do it”?

 

[BVM_1221]

Is it possible to vote democrat if you think they would help lower abortions?

Probably not. But most Catholics who vote for the Democrats do so for the rest of the platform. And vote against the Republicans because of the rest of THEIR platform

Also, you have to remember that too many Catholics on this forum are quite illiterate when it comes to things like the word “intrinsic”, as in “abortion is an intrinsic evil”. Yes, but the word “intrinsic” defines a quality, not a quantity. To many, “intrinsic” is regarded as a synonym for “infinity”. Wrong, but a common error:tsktsk::tsktsk:

 

[Gift_from_God]

But how does that answer “just because they believe it, it doesn’t mean that they will do it”?

It’s called pandering. If you look at Barrack Obama for example, he promised the unions that if someone tried to harm them, he would stand on the picket line with them. When Scott Walker started attacking unions, Obama did not live up to his promise.

As someone who knows some politicians, I can tell you that many of them are all talk and no work. Very few are honest about their plans while trying to attain power, and many are corrupted by the system. My dad actually knew someone who tried to become an MPP (Member of Provincial Parliament) who actually told the pro-lifers that he would work hard to end abortion and then would go to the abortion supporters and would tell them that he would fight for their right to have an abortion.