Is it really "natural"...To stop masturbating?

[Prodigal_Son]

First of all, Pfeffer, my heart goes out to you. I grew up with struggling with same-sex attractions, and it is no fun. I know that you didn’t choose to feel this way, and I know that you don’t want to feel this way. You probably wonder why God would let you experience all of this, why God would expect so much of you.

One thing to remember is this: if you look around you, you will see people with worse crosses to bear than you have. Finding men sexually attractive is hardly a curse, when you compare yourself to people who have cancer, people who are born into poverty, people whose parents are abusive.

Still, you’re probably a little angry at God. That’s OK. Yell at Him. Question Him. Pour out your heart to Him. He can take it.

If I found another guy who felt the exact same on that issue (remaining chaste all his life), could I have a…“relationship?” Like, a sex-free, sin-free, relationship? WOULD that be sin-free? I guess it would be considered more “best friends” than a relationship, but…I don’t know. I’m just asking for your opinion.

That’s an awfully hard question. My sense is this: unless you were in a covenant, you couldn’t faithfully live out your commitment to be chaste, if you put yourself constantly in the near occasion of sin.

But let’s change the equation a little. Let’s imagine you were in a household of loving brothers in Christ, and you lived together with them, and you all committed yourself to love God. In such a situation, even if you fell into sin, you would have a covenant and a support structure to pull you up. What’s more, you would have close and meaningful relationships, with real physical and emotional connections that many people in the gay community only dream of. This is a real option: brotherhoods like this exist, and they seek out sincere young Christians like yourself.

Or you could take the route that I followed. I’m married now, with three kids. My SSA hasn’t gone away, but it doesn’t really bother me – in the power of Christ, I need not bow to temptation. Please note: if you really don’t find a woman attractive, certainly you ought not marry her. But many people with SSA find that women become more and more attractive as you age; once you understand the nurturing, abiding love that a faithful woman of God can have in her heart, it is hard not to find a life with her appealing.

A sexually illiterate culture doesn’t help. On that note, I recommend you check out the following article. It is all about friendship between men, and how very important it is, especially to the man with SSA.

touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=18-07-021-f

Blessings,
Daniel

 

[Luke_K]

A sexually illiterate culture doesn’t help. On that note, I recommend you check out the following article. It is all about friendship between men, and how very important it is, especially to the man with SSA.

touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=18-07-021-f

Blessings,
Daniel

That was a very enlightening article for me, thanks for sharing it. I’ve noticed that some people I know put a sexual context into every act of affection two guys have for each other, and how society as a whole does that to a degree. It’s awful that the pervading message nowadays seems to be that to love somebody deeply means to want to have sex with them.

 

[Dousias]

No harm done.

Ohhh, I see what you mean now. I have the choice whether or not to *act *upon the temptation. Do I have that right?

Yes, I know I can have friends, and as I said before, I don’t think chastitiy is the problem. The problem is, I cannot be in a relationship. I cannot live with somebody. THAT is what I’m concerned about. And…I guess I’m just going to have to stay concerned, because it’s not going to happen.

And…I know a lot of you are thinking this…But I believe I could definitely remain chaste living with somebody. Reason being, I just COULD NOT see myself doing something…sexual…with another guy. It just seems completely weird and wrong to me. The thing is, though, I’m not allowed to live with somebody. Or even be in a distant relationship. Yes, I can have friends, but not be in a relationship.

And once again, priests choose to be chaste. I didn’t. I’d much rather live a normal life with a woman than be chaste. But it just wouldn’t work.

And thank you.

Hi Pfeffer,

WOW! Lots of thoughts from the Church side so how about from the non-Church side?
The opinions you read here are sourced from Church doctrine for the most part, but I always ask if it’s really sourced from God or some guys with control issues two thousand years ago? Now before you guys go get the burning pitchforks aimed my direction hear me out!

This is a public forum and all reasonable opinions are welcome as long as we all toe the line and be good humans. So all you guys and gals who think you know it all because you listen to conventional wisdom, chill and think it through…

If we agree God is perfect and is incapable of creating anything less then perfection, then we are indeed perfect. All the words about how we are all sinners from birth flies in the face of a perfect creator. My opinion and a part of my worldview is that we are natural people with a range of feelings, actions, desires and proclivities that are in their range, perfectly natural. Again, we are natural and perfect as created by God. Period.

Being gay or straight or lesbian or poly or transsexual or sexual or celibate is simply a range of human behavior. God made this range of experience with purpose and intent. It is so we all have space to live out our lives as the creative force in this world. To judge all this as “right” or “wrong” is not our responsibility. Guess who IS responsible? 'Nuf said!

God didn’t make gay people and expect them to not be sexual. Same with straight people. We are sexual creatures and being sexual is a normal part of our lives. Yes, there are ups and downs when it comes to being intimate with each other but overall the benefits outweigh the problems.

Do keep in mind that my opinions are just just that, opinions. On the other hand, the majority of other opinions on this forum source from a religion with barely 16 percent of the people worldwide. So there you go…

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[GeorgeSword]

If we agree God is perfect and is incapable of creating anything less then perfection, then we are indeed perfect. All the words about how we are all sinners from birth flies in the face of a perfect creator. My opinion and a part of my worldview is that we are natural people with a range of feelings, actions, desires and proclivities that are in their range, perfectly natural. Again, we are natural and perfect as created by God. Period.

God gave us free will so that we might truly love Him, rather than simply being either mindless or ‘pre-programmed’, so to speak. However, in giving us the free will to love Him, He also gave us the free will to reject Him. God is perfect, and His creations perfect, but it was us, not Him, who turned it into what it is.

 

[SFO]

Any good priest will tell you that he did not choose to become a priest. God chose him.

SO true. I have met many priests who fought and fought and fought to deny themselves the vocation to which they KNEW God was calling them. If you are sincere about following God’s will OP, which it seems you are, there is no need to worry. He will provide everything you need. Sexuality is especially hard to deal with as a teenager and sadly it doesn’t get much easier.

OP, I will keep you in my prayers and ask that God fulfills everything you need in your life. But, frankly, sex and masturbation are not things you need.

 

[Pfeffer102]

SO true. I have met many priests who fought and fought and fought to deny themselves the vocation to which they KNEW God was calling them. If you are sincere about following God’s will OP, which it seems you are, there is no need to worry. He will provide everything you need. Sexuality is especially hard to deal with as a teenager and sadly it doesn’t get much easier.

“God will provide you with everything you need.” I like that.

OP, I will keep you in my prayers and ask that God fulfills everything you need in your life. But, frankly, sex and masturbation are not things you need.

Thank you! These prayers must be somewhat working, because I NEVER thought I could’ve made it 6 days. Wow.

On the other hand though, I’ve been off the topic of “sex and masturbation” for a couple days now. I just wanted to know about that…relationship thing. Like, if two guys, both Catholic, had the strong intentions of remaining chaste, could there be a chance of a relationship?

A couple people hit the nail on the head.
For example…

We know what marriage is. We know what friendship is. It almost seems like your question is whether or not there is something that is sort of in between those two kinds of relationships.

Exactly! Thanks for spelling it out for me, Joe.

 

[Dousias]

God gave us free will so that we might truly love Him, rather than simply being either mindless or ‘pre-programmed’, so to speak. However, in giving us the free will to love Him, He also gave us the free will to reject Him. God is perfect, and His creations perfect, but it was us, not Him, who turned it into what it is.

Hi George,

We agree on Gods existence and perfection but disagree on man’s.

I have a rather naturalistic concept of God, much like Carl Sagan does. That that what we see and feel and experience that we call God is as natural a part of the universe as any other force within or even without. We have felt this force and effect since the time we attained consciousness and as yet don’t have a handle on how it really works. We will someday, but until one of the many guesses on the nature of the “God Effect” pans out, I will model my concept as natural and working within the bounds of nature just like everything else we see, hear, feel and otherwise experience.

In my worldview a person can’t “reject” the effects of God any more than he can reject gravity. We can ignore gravity’s effects and wind up with a broken foot just as we can ignore God’s effects and end up dead or in prison for being a foolish person.

Live and breath the God Spirit and life is a much better place. The effects are immediate. Reject and what happens? Less than what it could be.

Finally, we all get to do what it takes to get through life and be joyous, fulfilled and happy. This too is a part of God’s plan.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Trinityisgod]

I was struggling with this exact same problem. I am in my early twenties, and it’s not exactly easy for me to not do it either. But. I went to confession for the second time in my life (I was getting tired of being guilty of a serious sin when I could have taken the eucharist), and the priest at that church and myself had a bit of a discussion. Thanks to him, I have not masturbated since, well, honestly, last Saturday. Yes, I have been struggling. But you know what? I feel alot better knowing that I am in control of it, and it is not in control of me.

 

[Trunicate09]

I believe that masturbation is natural and OK. But there is a time and place for everything of course. Stopping or avoiding it in my opinion is unnatural. People are sexual beings not asexual robots.

 

[edwest2]

I believe that masturbation is natural and OK. But there is a time and place for everything of course. Stopping or avoiding it in my opinion is unnatural. People are sexual beings not asexual robots.

“People are sexual beings”? OK. At one time, most people got married and that was the time and place for sex. As a Catholic, I had people tell me: “You know what the problem is with you Catholics? You’re sexually repressed!” What did that mean? The Church teaches we should avoid lust? So, we don’t go to strip clubs or prostitutes, that makes us repressed? What are we repressing?

The same with masturbation. It’s about self control. It’s about choosing an appropriate, God given outlet for our sexuality or not.

To the OP: Don’t beat yourself up over it. Pray to the Holy Spirit. Ask God for forgiveness.

In general: Find a way to use your time and energy for your physical and spiritual benefit.

We are called to holiness. As Father Ricardo said on Catholic Radio: “When you fall, pick yourself up.” Heck, we give more encouragement to people who try to quit smoking.

Encourage one another.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Trunicate09]

“People are sexual beings”? OK. At one time, most people got married and that was the time and place for sex. As a Catholic, I had people tell me: “You know what the problem is with you Catholics? You’re sexually repressed!” What did that mean? The Church teaches we should avoid lust? So, we don’t go to strip clubs or prostitutes, that makes us repressed? What are we repressing?

OMGosh, that was not even what I was thinking when I wrote what I said.

 

[Pfeffer102]

Ok, I decided I’m going to start making this like a little journal-type thing. That’ll be fun, right?

Day 9. Tuesday, December 8th.

Today has been going just like any other so far. I see things at school I probably shouldn’t be looking at or thinking about in the first place. I repress the urge. Same old, same old. But boy, was Sunday hard! I don’t know why! Maybe just thinking, okay, I have these 3 more hours until church, I can manage. And on the other hand, thinking, oh my gosh, I haven’t done this in more than a week! I can’t take it anymore!!!

But I did. And it’s now day 9 of no m-word.

I would like to get more thoughts on that relationship thing though. If you forget:

…So this…arises the tense, HYPOTHETICAL question…
If I found another guy who felt the exact same on that issue (remaining chaste all his life), could I have a…“relationship?” Like, a sex-free, sin-free, relationship? WOULD that be sin-free? I guess it would be considered more “best friends” than a relationship, but…I don’t know. I’m just asking for your opinion.

I got a couple nice, honest answers, that it would be hard, and probably impossible living with the “near occasion of sin,” but I’m open to any replies on that issue!

Thank you.

 

[BPW75]

Ok, I decided I’m going to start making this like a little journal-type thing. That’ll be fun, right?

Day 9. Tuesday, December 8th.

Today has been going just like any other so far. I see things at school I probably shouldn’t be looking at or thinking about in the first place. I repress the urge. Same old, same old. But boy, was Sunday hard! I don’t know why! Maybe just thinking, okay, I have these 3 more hours until church, I can manage. And on the other hand, thinking, oh my gosh, I haven’t done this in more than a week! I can’t take it anymore!!!

But I did. And it’s now day 9 of no m-word.

I would like to get more thoughts on that relationship thing though. If you forget:

I got a couple nice, honest answers, that it would be hard, and probably impossible living with the “near occasion of sin,” but I’m open to any replies on that issue!

Thank you.

No, I don’t think so. I think that type of relationship would be doomed to failure because of the temptation. I think (could be wrong) that the person you responded to was suggesting a male-female relationship not based on sex.

Edit: I just re-read the post by teachccd, and perhaps he/she was not suggesting a male-female relationship. Nonetheless, as young as you are, how do you know you are doomed to live the rest of your life alone? Would it be possible to fall in love with a woman and have a marriage relationship not based on sex?

Congratulations to you on your recent success with this issue. Don’t be ashamed of yourself. Remember that you are not alone. Use the resources mentioned in this thread and others.

 

[Pfeffer102]

No, I don’t think so. I think that type of relationship would be doomed to failure because of the temptation. I think (could be wrong) that the person you responded to was suggesting a male-female relationship not based on sex.

Edit: I just re-read the post by teachccd, and perhaps he/she was not suggesting a male-female relationship. Nonetheless, as young as you are, how do you know you are doomed to live the rest of your life alone? Would it be possible to fall in love with a woman and have a marriage relationship not based on sex?

Congratulations to you on your recent success with this issue. Don’t be ashamed of yourself. Remember that you are not alone. Use the resources mentioned in this thread and others.

I hate to say it, but you could be right…“doomed to failure”…although, if I put my mind to something, like remaining chaste, I intend to do it.

For example, this. And it’s now day 10.

And uh, no, it would not be possible to fall in love with a woman. I am not attracted to women, therefore, it would not be possible.

But thank you for your thoughts.

 

[TenBobNote]

What has helped me is to know that I must not make excuses, the fact that masturbation destroys the sanctity of how sexual relations should take place, and also the porn that goes along with it absolutely destroys woman in society. To make excuses before the act was a real problem until I understood how ridiculous it was to lie to myself for this completely material act.

 

[fbl9]

No, I honestly don’t. That’s what I was saying before…I just think it would be weird, and obviously wrong to have sex with another guy. So this…arises the tense, HYPOTHETICAL question…
If I found another guy who felt the exact same on that issue (remaining chaste all his life), could I have a…“relationship?” Like, a sex-free, sin-free, relationship? WOULD that be sin-free? I guess it would be considered more “best friends” than a relationship, but…I don’t know. I’m just asking for your opinion.

While such a thing is would be very difficult it would not be imposssible for with God ALL things are possible.Just a thought perhaps those of us that say it would be next to impossible are speaking from their own perspective: meaning it would be “impossible” for themselves to be able to live in such a relationship without falling.

Keep up the fight with the mb.

God bless

 

[brittrossiter]

** snip **

So this…arises the tense, HYPOTHETICAL question…
If I found another guy who felt the exact same on that issue (remaining chaste all his life), could I have a…“relationship?” Like, a sex-free, sin-free, relationship? WOULD that be sin-free? I guess it would be considered more “best friends” than a relationship, but…I don’t know. I’m just asking for your opinion.

Probably not, if you are describing a relationship that contemplates more than two ordinary male friends would share. Such a relationship would be sinful, even without any sex involved, if the nature of your interactions scandalized others - or each other. I also don’t recommend creating a situation where either of you might be tempted to sin, and there’d be a tremendous risk of that in what you are suggesting.

I’ve suffered from same sex attractions for years. I’ve found, at least in my own case, that those attractions have greatly diminished - both on an individual-by-individual basis and in the generic sense - the more that I have been able to successfully bond on a non-sexual level with those of the same sex. In other words, the more I grow in true friendship with someone of the same gender, the less of a sensual attraction there has been. The more I get to know a fellow man as a man, as opposed to just a physical specimen, the more the natural relationship that should be there tends to come through.

I don’t think the type of quasi-relationship you are describing could ever exist for any length of time. You’d either give in to the temptations by living in such proximity to sin, or “devolve” (grow?) into a close friendship instead.

I spent 13 years of my life in actual same sex relationships. I thank God every day for delivering me from them, and for those who prayed for me through the many years I was lost. I don’t ever recommend that anyone put themselves in a position that places them in the danger of falling into the same sin I just escaped from.

Congratulations on steering away from the “m-word” - that’s no small accomplishment. Keep up the struggle; that Cross becomes a little lighter with each passing day. As Fr. Benedict Groeschel has said (and I paraphrase), each act of resistance to temptation to sin is a tremendous act of worship towards God.

 

[Pfeffer102]

Congratulations on steering away from the “m-word” - that’s no small accomplishment.

Thank you! It really isn’t.

Keep up the struggle; that Cross becomes a little lighter with each passing day.

But this…this is silly. Because yesterday, I was just fine. No urges hardly at all. But TODAY. Today sucked.

Day 11. Today, I was tempted SO MUCH. I won’t go into details, but just certain things that happened today…Well, a couple hours ago…I got…dare I say it, an e-word. Ok, erection. And I could hardly stand it. But I tried to keep my mind off of it. And I succeeded. And THAT was hard. (Uhh…Haha.) Anyway. It was the first time it happened other than when waking up since I stopped. I hardly feel like this is normal, but, if it’s what God wants me to do…Then ok.

But this topic WASN’T in the Bible.

And also, I had a point in bringing up the fact that I’m gay. Straight people that resist the urge of masturbation all throughout their life will eventually get married, and get to experience sex. And will finally get to fulfill those sexual urges. I will not. Never. Never again.

Think about it.

-Dan (Yes, for those of you interested, that’s my name.)

 

[GeorgeSword]

And also, I had a point in bringing up the fact that I’m gay. Straight people that resist the urge of masturbation all throughout their life will eventually get married, and get to experience sex. And will finally get to fulfill those sexual urges. I will not. Never. Never again.

Think about it.

-Dan (Yes, for those of you interested, that’s my name.)

Not all straight people get married. Some are celibate willfully, others just never get the chance. Celibacy is a good thing, whether you are gay or straight, man or woman, priest or layman.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

Let me first say that I stopped reading everybody’s posts when I saw that there were 4 pages of posts and that it is 2am here. I will only respond to the very first post by Pfeffer102.

Simply put, it is natural to NOT masturbate as that was the original order of things. I concur that it does not seem natural to stop masturbating in this day and age because as you say “everybody does it.” I urge you not to fall into this mentality. I fell into it and that mentality is what took me so long to stop. Well, part of it anyhow.

I will say that it is possible to stop. I was into erotica and the like and would masturbate a few of times a week. All of a sudden it was the 4th of July and I was listening to K-Love on the radio. What they said really struck home. It was something to this effect: ‘While we might be celebrating our independence, we must always remember that we are not independent from God and that we must always depend on Him in all things.’ It was that day that I said that I would no longer be independent from God on this issue. Since July 5th of this year I have not masturbated nor even felt the urge to. Sure, I have had nocturnal emissions which sometimes truly are you subconsciously masturbating in your sleep. THAT IS natural.

“Ask and you shall receive.”

I asked for God’s grace and He gave it to me! He WILL do it for you as well. But you must fully believe it and trust in Him.

Turn this over to God! Also, I recommend that you check out something call Baptism in the Spirit. It is part of the Charismatic Renewal. I have found even more graces and Gifts of the Spirits bestowed on me and it has been an amazing experience.

By the way, I am 20 years old and so I know how hard this age range is for masturbation. I have had countless talks with people our age regarding such issues. Don’t give up! Don’t get stuck in a rutt! Pray unceasingly!

God bless!