Is it really "natural"...To stop masturbating?

[FiberZilla]

I believe that masturbation is natural and OK. But there is a time and place for everything of course. Stopping or avoiding it in my opinion is unnatural. People are sexual beings not asexual robots.

You are right. Masturbation is normal and even expected behavior in almost all of us (at least on past or even current occasions) because we live in human flesh. However, this does not mean that it is a moral act. For those who claim to be christians, masturbation must be considered sinful. Since we are called by Christ to repent of all sexual immorality there is no legitimate place for this behavior in the christian life…

 

[Dousias]

Thank you! It really isn’t.

But this…this is silly. Because yesterday, I was just fine. No urges hardly at all. But TODAY. Today sucked.

Day 11. Today, I was tempted SO MUCH. I won’t go into details, but just certain things that happened today…Well, a couple hours ago…I got…dare I say it, an e-word. Ok, erection. And I could hardly stand it. But I tried to keep my mind off of it. And I succeeded. And THAT was hard. (Uhh…Haha.) Anyway. It was the first time it happened other than when waking up since I stopped. I hardly feel like this is normal, but, if it’s what God wants me to do…Then ok.

But this topic WASN’T in the Bible.

And also, I had a point in bringing up the fact that I’m gay. Straight people that resist the urge of masturbation all throughout their life will eventually get married, and get to experience sex. And will finally get to fulfill those sexual urges. I will not. Never. Never again.

Think about it.

-Dan (Yes, for those of you interested, that’s my name.)

Hay Dan,

Good luck on your quest. I wish you well.

I too journaled when I became clean and sober seven years ago. It helped to write of my ongoing experiences. But beware of the trap… You ARE writing about masturbation, aren’t you? Isn’t that what you wish to move away from? How about all the neat things you are doing instead. Share how wonderful life is, focus on positive things. Just a suggestion…

PS don’t sweat being gay, you’ll figure out that part of your life when you are ready.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[James_Miller]

Someone suggested that we should not speculate about the fact that a whole church goes to Communion. Good advice, no doubt. I have taught at seminaries here in India for many years and many of my former students are now priests.
I asked one priest who was on a visit to me if masturbation was the most common sin confessed. To my shock he told me he had never heard it confessed even once. In the religion classes they don’t teach it. Many seminarians don’t know it is a sin.
No wonder the Communion lines are so long.

 

[StillWondering]

Yeah, but trying isn’t really good enough, is it.

I don’t know how how correct I am. But I think honestly trying is enough in some ways. By itself it is not enough. You have to try and beg to God and trust in him to help you. We won’t get to eternal salvation no matter how much we try. It is God who gets us there. But at the same time, if we do not try, well I don’t wanna say it but without God’s mercy you’ll definitely not get anywhere =).

What I’m saying is that you gotta try. Really try. At the same time beg for God’s grace. At the same time, “hope against hope” that God will get you the 99.9999999999999% of the way if you need that much help. Show God you are desperate for His help and at the same time you are desperate for His love.

 

[Pfeffer102]

don’t sweat being gay, you’ll figure out that part of your life when you are ready.

Uhh, are you serious? Really serious? “Don’t sweat being gay?” First of all, I have figured it out already, and second of all, easy for you to say, most-likely-straight person!

Someone suggested that we should not speculate about the fact that a whole church goes to Communion. Good advice, no doubt. I have taught at seminaries here in India for many years and many of my former students are now priests.
I asked one priest who was on a visit to me if masturbation was the most common sin confessed. To my shock he told me he had never heard it confessed even once. In the religion classes they don’t teach it. Many seminarians don’t know it is a sin.
No wonder the Communion lines are so long.

Oohhh, wow, thanks a lot James. That’s what I figured, but it’s good to get second-hand info from you from an actual priest. Wow. It makes sense now. The thing is, though, they’re not *really *committing a mortal sin, because they don’t *actually *know it is a mortal sin.
And some days…I hate to say it but, I still wish I *was *ignorant of the sin…

 

[fbl9]

And some days…I hate to say it but, I still wish I *was *ignorant of the sin…

I can almost echo that setiment.
However having once knowing what was sin, is not ignorance of the sin.
Living a life of sinfulness blinds one to their sinfulness to the point they become “ignorant” of what sin is.

 

[Dousias]

Uhh, are you serious? Really serious? “Don’t sweat being gay?” First of all, I have figured it out already, and second of all, easy for you to say, most-likely-straight person!

Totally serious! In time all will be revealed. What you are or what you think you are is relative in time. What you were as a kid is different than what you are now. What you will be in the future is unknown but most likely will be different too. I’m speaking of what you affiliate with, what you might reference as “self.” Be happy and content with who and what you are. Or not! If you are unhappy with who you are than by all means change that that does not serve you anymore. Be careful when judging your “self.” Be kind and gentle and understanding with your “self.” Always fully embrace who and what you are before creating these changes as that may be the very last time that experience is a part of your life. Savor the old thing even as it passes aside for the grander thing it replaces. Life, and change, is a journey or process, not a destination or solution.

A little over ten years ago I saw two guys standing out in broad daylight kissing each other. A year later I was filming a wedding ceremony and it happened again. Both times it freaked me out! Then that same year our gay chef embraced his boyfriend just two feet from me and my discomfort went through the roof! The next year brought change and better understanding. Two guys parked a motor home nearby and set up an AstroTurf lawn, small white picket fence and several plastic pink flamingos! They were engaging, entertaining and very gay. They enjoyed each others company, made each other happy and at times, fought over the stupidest things just like… real couples. Hmmm, they WERE a real couple! I then understood how judgmental I had been about the other guys and about gay people in general. Today I have gay friends as well as straight friends. I have friends who have had sex changes and two who are in the process. I know people who wear woman’s clothes and (sorta) look good in them! I have changed how I think and act to GLBT people. They are us. It’s all good.

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[Pfeffer102]

They were engaging, entertaining and very gay.

Haha! That’s hilarious! Your wording, *and *the fact that it actually happened. And that was a nice little story, and I understood what you meant now…But it only makes a point for me.
I will never have that. I will never have a relationship. So I’m glad you’re more tolerable for it, but thanks to my religion, I can’t ever have that happiness.

 

[Bbigam]

But this…this is silly. Because yesterday, I was just fine. No urges hardly at all. But TODAY. Today sucked.

Day 11. Today, I was tempted SO MUCH. I won’t go into details, but just certain things that happened today…Well, a couple hours ago…I got…dare I say it, an e-word. Ok, erection. And I could hardly stand it. But I tried to keep my mind off of it. And I succeeded. And THAT was hard. (Uhh…Haha.) Anyway. It was the first time it happened other than when waking up since I stopped. I hardly feel like this is normal, but, if it’s what God wants me to do…Then ok.

But this topic WASN’T in the Bible.

And also, I had a point in bringing up the fact that I’m gay. Straight people that resist the urge of masturbation all throughout their life will eventually get married, and get to experience sex. And will finally get to fulfill those sexual urges. I will not. Never. Never again.

Think about it.

-Dan (Yes, for those of you interested, that’s my name.)

Nice to meet you, Dan. Congratulations on resisting temptation for so long! I know, it’s really hard! It’s an addiction like alcoholism that you are making good progress toward fighting. Various prayers have helped me - “Lord, have mercy!” is one I use when tempted. The St. Michael prayer helps and I’ve started praying the Litany of the Saints on occasion to have all their prayers surrounding me.

I have a suggestion - stop saying you’re gay. Say instead that you suffer from same-sex attraction. SSA is a burden you have to bear and may bear your whole life but to the minds of many people, being gay means you embrace a gay image and persona and proudly live an unchaste gay life. Clearly this is not the way you choose to live so it may be helpful not to label yourself that way. It’s by no means the totality of who you are anyway.

About relationships - I agree with others that you shouldn’t have a chaste “relationship” with another man, in the sense of romantic or another man with SSA. Too much temptation and cause for scandal (scandal doesn’t even mean anything happens, but it looks bad). But you can have trusted friends and I hope you do! And you can have happiness, just not that one particular kind of happiness!

And some days…I hate to say it but, I still wish I *was *ignorant of the sin…

I bet there’s hardly anyone out there who doesn’t think this about some sin on occasion.

 

[MichaelFischer]

You have to ask yourself a direct question, do you REALLY believe in God and that He created the universe and all of creation? If you do, if you honestly beleive that then KNOW that the natural thing for you to do is to avoid sin.

Sin is not part of the original design, in fact - sin is unnatural!

So, when you look at sin for what it really is - and masturbation is sin, ( BTW I am sorry that your parents, CCD teachers, Priest, youth ministers, godparents, all failed in teaching this to you - ) then you know that the natural thing is NOT to do it.

Don’t fall into the “everybody does it” trap. That is satan talking.

Pick up a copy of “The Screwtape Letters”.

Pray, avoid sin, seek frequent confession.

 

[Pfeffer102]

Clearly this is not the way you choose to live so it may be helpful not to label yourself that way.

Well, I guess if I’m forced to choose to live this way…sure. Would I choose to live unchastely? No. Would I choose to be in a relationship? Sure would.

It’s by no means the totality of who you are anyway.

Uh, yeah, it pretty much is.

About relationships - I agree with others that you shouldn’t have a chaste “relationship” with another man, in the sense of romantic or another man with SSA.

There’s a difference between you people that *think *I shouldn’t, and *think *it’s wrong, and what’s a sin/mortal sin. I think it’s wrong to poop in the school bathroom, but it’s not a sin.

Just a quick one.

Day 15. I can hardly take it anymore. I remember reading on one of these forums that it takes 21 days to break a habit. So I’m definitely not stopping now. But gosh, is it getting hard.

Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ should come again…
Any time You’re ready, Jesus.

 

[Bbigam]

Well, I guess if I’m forced to choose to live this way…sure. Would I choose to live unchastely? No. Would I choose to be in a relationship? Sure would.

It’s by no means the totality of who you are anyway.

Are you really saying that all you are is a gay man? This is your only characteristic? I doubt it. Even if a person’s sexuality is the main way they identify themselves, there’s so much that makes up a person, that’s really just one (though sometimes prominent) aspect. I’m not saying you are attracted to women, I don’t know. But aren’t you Catholic? That’s part of your identity. Aren’t you whatever else you enjoy doing or are good at in school, work, or hobbies? That’s part of your identity too, not just being gay. I’m not at all trying to minimize your struggle at all - just saying that there is way more to being you than being gay. How about this - you’re a man who can go for 15+ days toward breaking a very difficult addiction the moment you find out it’s a sin! That’s great!

About the relationship - I’m not saying it would be mortal sin. I’m saying I think it would likely be unwise. No one is forcing you to choose chaste or unchaste, relationship or not - but with God’s grace you can make the right choices to help you become holy, which of course includes chastity, which you have already chosen.

 

[fbl9]

Well, I guess if I’m forced to choose to live this way…sure. Would I choose to live unchastely? No. Would I choose to be in a relationship? Sure would.

in an earlier post of yours you stated to the effect that the idea of having sex with another man is replusive to you.This doesn’t sound like one who is being “forced” to be chaste.

Uh, yeah, it pretty much is.

It is through the waters of baptism we become(adopted) children of God. Truly i say to you; thou art a son of the most High God.

There’s a difference between you people that *think *I shouldn’t, and *think *it’s wrong, and what’s a sin/mortal sin. I think it’s wrong to poop in the school bathroom, but it’s not a sin.

What would be the chances of finding another who holds the same beleifs as you in this regard to live with?

Just a quick one.

Day 15. I can hardly take it anymore. I remember reading on one of these forums that it takes 21 days to break a habit. So I’m definitely not stopping now. But gosh, is it getting hard.

Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ should come again…
Any time You’re ready, Jesus.

There are many people out there that had that same thought,but on the other side of the coin there is just as many who might say come when you are ready Jesus just not yet.

 

[Dousias]

Haha! That’s hilarious! Your wording, *and *the fact that it actually happened. And that was a nice little story, and I understood what you meant now…But it only makes a point for me.
I will never have that. I will never have a relationship. So I’m glad you’re more tolerable for it, but thanks to my religion, I can’t ever have that happiness.

Wow! I am (almost) at a loss for words. This is my opinion, as is all I relate…

God wants you to be happy. And empowered, and creative, and joyful and live in a state of grace. Much more too. It is your choice to be unhappy if that is indeed what you wish for your life. I again share the words of Meister Eckhart (paraphrased) “Let God be God as You.” Is commanding unhappiness for yourself or someone else a Godly act?

Blessed be, Dousias

 

[prettylarge]

PS don’t sweat being gay, you’ll figure out that part of your life when you are ready.

Blessed be, Dousias

I am curious, do you mean that he will “get over” being gay, or that he will accept it, as will God?

EDIT: I figured it out from reading more posts. I totally agree with you. I know a gay man that is a very devout Catholic. God made him that way, and I don’t think he thinks anything of it. If God made people gay, then how would it be a sin to be gay? If you think it is a conscious choice, then why are there so many animals that perform homosexual acts?

 

[prettylarge]

but thanks to my religion, I can’t ever have that happiness.

Do you think that God wants you to be unhappy? Seriously, do you think so? The homosexual acts that seem to be talked about in the Bible seem to be about men that have immoral sex with lots of sex partners, including men. I don’t think that it was two men that were in love with each other.

If you love someone, you should show your love. God wants everyone to be happy, and he made you how he made you. There is nothing wrong with a loving relationship between two people of the same sex. Don’t let the church tell you otherwise.

 

[prettylarge]

Wow! I am (almost) at a loss for words. This is my opinion, as is all I relate…

God wants you to be happy. And empowered, and creative, and joyful and live in a state of grace. Much more too. It is your choice to be unhappy if that is indeed what you wish for your life. I again share the words of Meister Eckhart (paraphrased) “Let God be God as You.” Is commanding unhappiness for yourself or someone else a Godly act?

Blessed be, Dousias

Great!

 

[mexilad]

“You’re sexually repressed!” What did that mean? The Church teaches we should avoid lust? So, we don’t go to strip clubs or prostitutes, that makes us repressed? What are we repressing?"

That is an excellent and important question. I second the sentiment, Encourage one another." So hang in there. God loves you.

 

[StillWondering]

Do you think that God wants you to be unhappy? Seriously, do you think so? The homosexual acts that seem to be talked about in the Bible seem to be about men that have immoral sex with lots of sex partners, including men. I don’t think that it was two men that were in love with each other.

If you love someone, you should show your love. God wants everyone to be happy, and he made you how he made you. There is nothing wrong with a loving relationship between two people of the same sex. Don’t let the church tell you otherwise.

I disagree and so does the Church. But I’m only authorized to talk about myself so I’ll explain why I disagree.

Sins are not about what “I” think is right or wrong. Even worst is when “I” declare what is right or wrong for another without the authority to do so. You’re statement “There is nothing wrong…” is an authoritative statement but you have no moral authority over the human soul in question. Sure you can choose to decide for yourself, but you are not God. A sin involves your relationship with God. And it is God who decides what is wrong or right–not to condemn but as a Father protecting His children.

Let me give an example. I could say, there is nothing wrong with me throwing away consecrated Eucharist in the trash. And I can tell the whole world about it. But that does not make it right. Since you do not list your religion, you may not believe that Catholic Church to be the one true Church nor that the Catholic Church holds the teachings handed down from Christ who is God. If you do not, then what I say have no relevance to you. But if you do, then you would understand that the Church has authority to teach morals. The Church has spoken on this issue and it is in direct opposition to what you have spoken.

 

[prettylarge]

I disagree and so does the Church. But I’m only authorized to talk about myself so I’ll explain why I disagree.

Sins are not about what “I” think is right or wrong. Even worst is when “I” declare what is right or wrong for another without the authority to do so. You’re statement “There is nothing wrong…” is an authoritative statement but you have no moral authority over the human soul in question. Sure you can choose to decide for yourself, but you are not God. A sin involves your relationship with God. And it is God who decides what is wrong or right–not to condemn but as a Father protecting His children.

Let me give an example. I could say, there is nothing wrong with me throwing away consecrated Eucharist in the trash. And I can tell the whole world about it. But that does not make it right. Since you do not list your religion, you may not believe that Catholic Church to be the one true Church nor that the Catholic Church holds the teachings handed down from Christ who is God. If you do not, then what I say have no relevance to you. But if you do, then you would understand that the Church has authority to teach morals. The Church has spoken on this issue and it is in direct opposition to what you have spoken.

Yes, but lets look at why the church says the things it does. It is well known that many Romans and Greeks were homosexual and would basically have large orgies together. In my opinion, this is the type of thing that Paul and the prophets of the OT were speaking against. Did Jesus even mention homosexuality? I don’t think so. In Romans, when Paul mentions why homosexuality is bad, he also mentions that men * lust* after each other. Which to me, is the main cause of him saying it. I don’t think that the Bible condemns a monogamous loving relationship between two men to be honest…I just think it condemns the lusting after other men and having large orgy type of lifestyle that went with homosexuality in ancient times.