Is it reasonable to have a dress code for liturgical ministers?

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Duesenberg:
I didn’t suggest otherwise. But if a member of the faithful is distracted because a reader is dressed provocatively, it’s on the person dressed inappropriately and not the person who was distracted.
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That is false. Take note: To place the blame/responsibility for our sin/distractions on someone else – is to deny our own dignity and freedom. We cannot transfer the responsibility for our own sin/distractions onto someone else.
POST-SYNODAL APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS CLERGY AND FAITHFUL
ON RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE
IN THE MISSION OF THE CHURCH TODAY

Personal Sin and Social Sin
  1. Sin, in the proper sense, is always a personal act, since it is an act of freedom on the part of an individual person and not properly of a group or community. This individual may be conditioned, incited and influenced by numerous and powerful external factors. He may also be subjected to tendencies, defects and habits linked with his personal condition. In not a few cases such external and internal factors may attenuate, to a greater or lesser degree, the person’s freedom and therefore his responsibility and guilt. But it is a truth of faith, also confirmed by our experience and reason, that the human person is free. This truth cannot be disregarded in order to place the blame for individuals’ sins on external factors such as structures, systems or other people. Above all, this would be to deny the person’s dignity and freedom, which are manifested-even though in a negative and disastrous way-also in this responsibility for sin committed. Hence there is nothing so personal and untransferable in each individual as merit for virtue or responsibility for sin.
As a personal act, sin has its first and most important consequences in the sinner himself: that is, in his relationship with God, who is the very foundation of human life; and also in his spirit, weakening his will and clouding his intellect.
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Walking_Home said:
That is false. Take note: To place the blame/responsibility for our sin/distractions on someone else – is to deny our own dignity and freedom. We cannot transfer the responsibility for our own sin/distractions onto someone else.
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You’re wrong. It’s very important that individuals dress modestly when they undertake liturgical ministries. Your earlier post below remains shocking:
Walking_Home said:
We haven’t outlived the sex abuse crisis and about a month ago a US Vatican diplomat was called to Rome to be investigated for child porn. Going on about what women/girls wear – just makes the Church look like it’s full of oogling predators.
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Directing liturgical ministers to wear modest clothing would be a great thing in many parishes. I’m really not sure what made you make the above comments…
 
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Go back a actually read Pope John Paul II Exortation on Reconciliation and Penance.
[/quote]

And here is Pope Francis – about those who walk out of Church gossiping . I’d say it applies to those who also bring it to forums.
On How We Live the Eucharist

“Through the Eucharist, Christ wants to enter into our existence and permeate it with His grace,”
February 12, 2014ZENIT StaffGeneral Audience

However, does the Eucharist I celebrate lead me to truly regard them all as brothers and sisters? Does it make my capacity grow to rejoice with the joyful and to weep with those who weep? Does it push me to go to the poor, the sick, the marginalized? Does it help me to recognize Jesus’ face in them? We all go to Mass because we love Jesus and we want to share in the Eucharist his Passion and Resurrection. But do we love, as Jesus wants, those brothers and sisters that are most in need? For example, in Rome in these days we have see so many social hardships or because of the rain, which has done so much damage to entire neighborhoods, or for the lack of work, consequences of the economic crisis in the whole world. I ask myself, and each one us should ask themselves: I, who go to Mass, how do I live this? Do I make sure to help, to come close to, to pray for those who have this problem? Or am I a little indifferent? Or maybe I’m concerned with gossip: Have you seen how that woman is dressed, or how that man is dressed? Sometimes this is done, after Mass, and it shouldn’t be done! We should worry about our brothers and our sister that are in need because of a sickness, a problem. Today, it would do us well to think of these our brothers and sisters that have these problems here in Rome: problems caused by the tragedy provoked by the rain, social problems and work. Let us ask Jesus, who we received in the Eucharist, to help us to help them.
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I am not so sure nice is the word I would use. Our Bishop has caused much division & angst among the faithful. He is the total opposite of our previous Bishop and many people feel like they are being scolded and told what they have always do e is now somehow deficient.

I agree that some things need to be addressed, I don’t agree with heavy-handed tactics.
 
Proverbs said:
I agree that some things need to be addressed, I don’t agree with heavy-handed tactics
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You didn’t note that he was heavy-handed. I agree that bishops should address things and not be heavy-handed when at all possible.
 
I read at my parish. They call me a “lector,” but since it’s not a formal calling from the bishop I guess I’m technically a “reader.” I’ve only been Catholic just over 2 years, and still learning all the terms and technicalities. I’m also in the choir.

I guess in some places a dress code is needed. In my parish, when one is scheduled to serve in mass everyone dresses their best. I suppose I’m the worst, primarily because I’m poor and disabled. At the worst I’ll wear a polo shirt, but it’s always at least a collared shirt. It depends on weather because I can’t allow myself to overheat for serious health reasons.

The no sandals thing took me aback a bit. I used to wear only sandals because they were the only shoes I could find which would fit. I’m not talking flip flops, but nice leather sandals. My parish has been Franciscan since it was built in 1797, though that’s changing soon, so I couldn’t really imagine a no sandals rule there. When my feet are swollen from arthritis, I’ll still wear my nice sandals. If my parish ever has a problem with it, I’d probably seek out a new place to serve.
 
Do you attend Old Mission San Fernando Rey de España by chance? It’s my favorite of the California Missions – the King of the Missions.

I don’t think anyone is going to be forced not to wear nice leather sandals. Not even – after all there us an order of Discalced Carmelites in the Church.

I think the person who mentioned the sandals was talking more about flip-flops/shower sandals.

dis·calced
dəˈskalst/
adjective
adjective: discalced
denoting or belonging to one of several strict orders of Catholic friars or nuns who go barefoot or wear only sandals.
 
Pope Francis would be right, gossiping is a sin. He isn’t saying dressing immodestly is okay. Dressing immodestly can, however, lead others to temptation which is not looking out for our neighbors. There should be no reason one cannot dress modestly unless they are dirt poor.
 
newcalling said:
The no sandals thing took me aback a bit. I used to wear only sandals because they were the only shoes I could find which would fit. I’m not talking flip flops, but nice leather sandals. My parish has been Franciscan since it was built in 1797, though that’s changing soon, so I couldn’t really imagine a no sandals rule there. When my feet are swollen from arthritis, I’ll still wear my nice sandals. If my parish ever has a problem with it, I’d probably seek out a new place to serve.
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I was also surprised by the no sandals thing. My pastor almost always wears nice fisherman sandals during the liturgy . In the summer, he’s usually wearing shorts and a t-shirt under his cassock.
 
misstherese said:
Pope Francis would be right, gossiping is a sin. He isn’t saying dressing immodestly is okay. Dressing immodestly can, however, lead others to temptation which is not looking out for our neighbors. There should be no reason one cannot dress modestly unless they are dirt poor.
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Go back up – and read Pope John Paul II Exhortation on personal sin. We cannot lay/transfer the responsibility of our own sin at the feet of another. And yes gossiping about what people wear is wrong – we should not be doing it out the Church door and/or bringing it to spread on forums.

Instead of giving “side glances”/ “throwing mental stones”/etc etc. at others – We need to have a Christ like attitude towards them.
APOSTOLIC JOURNEY TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS JOHN PAUL II
TO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS

Madison Square Garden, New York
Wednesday, 3 October 1979

Dear young people,

I am happy to be with you in Madison Square Garden. Today this is a garden of life, where young people are alive: alive with hope and love, alive with the life of Christ. And it is in the name of Christ that I greet each one of you today.

I have been told that most of you come from Catholic high schools. For this reason I would like to say something about Catholic education, to tell you why the Church considers it so important and expends so much energy in order to provide you and millions of other young people with a Catholic education. The answer can be summarized in one word, in one person, Jesus Christ. The Church wants to communicate Christ to you.

1. This is what education is all about, this is the meaning of life: to know Christ. To know Christ as a friend: as someone who cares about you and the person next to you, and all the people here and everywhere—no matter what language they speak, or what clothes they wear, or what color their skin is.

And so the purpose of Catholic education is to communicate Christ to you, so that your attitude toward others will be that of Christ. You are approaching that stage in your life when you must take personal responsibility for your own destiny. Soon you will be making major decisions which will affect the whole course of your life. If these decisions reflect Christ’s attitude, then your education will be a success. We have to learn to meet challenges and even crises in the light of Christ’s Cross and Resurrection. Part of our Catholic education is to learn to see the needs of others, to have the courage to practice what we believe in. With the support of a Catholic education we try to meet every circumstance of life with the attitude of Christ. Yes, the Church wants to communicate Christ to you so that you will come to full maturity in him who is the perfect human being, and, at the same time, the Son of God.
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Walking_Home said:
We cannot lay/transfer the responsibility of our own sin at the feet of another. And yes gossiping is wrong – we should not be doing it – out the Church door and/or bringing it to spread on forums.
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Are you REALLY trying to use this as an excuse for liturgical ministers who dress inappropriately for the Mass?
 
As a practical matter, I think presentation of the dress code can help. For example, when we were given skirt lengths, the sister presenting them presented it as “sometimes when you’re up on the platform, you don’t realize that your skirt looks a lot shorter than it does when you’re standing on the ground.” So it wasn’t presented as “shorter than X is inappropriate” but as a case where they had to have some rules and these were what they were.
 
The novitiate left a few years ago. The Franciscans sold the mission to the diocese last year, but said we’d always be Franciscan and have a Franciscan priest. The last of the religious brothers were reassigned then. Now, as our priest is moving to Texas, we got letters from the Franciscans and Bishop Garcia saying we would no longer be assigned a Franciscan priest and we will become a diocesan parish.

To bring this reply back on topic; maybe I should wear my sandals exclusively again as a sign that we’re still Franciscan at heart. Barefoot would be even better, but I think that would cause a dress code to be implemented.
 
All I’m saying is that – we are responsible for our on sin/distractions – and cannot lay the blame on another.

And to repeat Pope John Paul II :
Have a Christ like attitude towards others – no matter what clothes they wear.
 
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newcalling said:
The novitiate left a few years ago. The Franciscans sold the mission to the diocese last year, but said we’d always be Franciscan and have a Franciscan priest. The last of the religious brothers were reassigned then. Now, as our priest is moving to Texas, we got letters from the Franciscans and Bishop Garcia saying we would no longer be assigned a Franciscan priest and we will become a diocesan parish.

To bring this reply back on topic; maybe I should wear my sandals exclusively again as a sign that we’re still Franciscan at heart. Barefoot would be even better, but I think that would cause a dress code to be implemented.
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Wow, that is very interesting. The OFMs actually owned the parish? That’s really something. Too bad the bishop can’t get an OFM Conventual priest from down in Nipomo. That would be a very good fit.

Why did the OFMs move out of OMSM? Just not enough friars to keep things going?

Yes, you should wear your sandals all the time. Maybe a habit, walking stick (like St. Serra’s) and straw hat too!
 
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