Is it reasonable to have a dress code for liturgical ministers?

[Walking_Home]

Walking_Home:

The only sense I’m conveying – is that each one of us is responsible for our own sin.

And when we encounter someone – as Pope John Paul II says – have a Christ like attitude towards them.

Sure you are. Just look at your attack:

You keep turning a blind eye/deaf ear to Pope John Paul II Exhortation on personal sin. One who pays “attention”/scrutinizes/ogles teenagers/women and yoga pants/etc. – needs to own it up completely – and not scapegoat the other.

Why did you project this garbage into this thread?

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Actually – I included that – because I remembered a thread from some time back. In it – a man was commenting on a group of teenage girls at Mass – that walked up to the front for some type of presentation. The man had obviously spent time “looking” – to be able to be so “descriptive”— in describing/detailing what the girls were wearing and how the pants fit. I think it was some type of yoga pants. Your mention of “skin tight yoga pants” – reminded me of that thread. Well that thread got locked/deleted – and the man was eventually banned.

 

[Walking_Home]

Just saying that your “skin tight yoga pants” reminded me of that man and the thread. That’s all.

 

[Duesenberg]

Reminds me of last week’s Gospel (I think it was last week…) where the master had everybody invited to the feast in his great hall but threw the guy out who wasn’t dressed appropriately…

I wonder if we know where we are when we’re at Mass… and who we’re going to see.

I hope you’re aware that back in those days the “wedding garment” would have been available at the front door to the home. So not wearing the “wedding garment” was not a matter of poverty, or a matter of running out of time, etc. It was a matter of defiance.

Yeah, I guess some posts on this thread remind me of defiance as well.

PS: They did a lot more than throw the guy out…

 

[Lea101]

My parish has a dress code for these people, as sort of a uniform. My parish is quite lenient on dress codes in general though. I could wear jeans and a t shirt if I want to.

For them, they would have to wear black pants/skirts and a white shirt/blouse. Females have the option of pants and skirts. Proper shoes for both. But overall they have to look smart and groomed.

 

[Duesenberg]

My parish has a dress code for these people, as sort of a uniform. My parish is quite lenient on dress codes in general though. I could wear jeans and a t shirt if I want to.

For them, they would have to wear black pants/skirts and a white shirt/blouse. Females have the option of pants and skirts. Proper shoes for both. But overall they have to look smart and groomed.

I think that’s very wise. “Take the world out of the sanctuary.” Keep people from dressing inappropriately for the sanctuary.

How does it work? Do they all dress similarly, or is there a wide variety of white tops and black pants/skirts?

 

[Lea101]

Pants and skirts are all basically the same, I can’t imagine any huge variations. As for the tops, there’s some sort of variation-dress shirts, blouses (short sleeves, medium sleeves, long sleeves). T shirts are not allowed though, basically what is appropriate for the office. But nothing that eye catching. That’s not much you can do with these plain colors anyway, they all look very plain but smart

 

[Proverbs]

That may be a definition of “extraordinary”, but that is not what the Church means when it uses that word.

“Ordinary” means the normal or usual. i.e a Bishop, Priest or Deacon is an “ordinary minister of the Eucharist”.

“Extraordinary” just means outside of the norm. So, a layperson distributing the Eucharist is "extraordinary, because they are outside the norm.

Another example- the Ordinary Form of the Mass is the typical Mass, that must be celebrated for the faithful.
The Extraordinary Form is an older missal that is still allowed to be used but is not the normal Mass that is celebrated by the Church around the world.

The use of extraordinary by the Church does not “set apart” something as “better”.

 

[DarkLight]

For them, they would have to wear black pants/skirts and a white shirt/blouse. Females have the option of pants and skirts. Proper shoes for both. But overall they have to look smart and groomed.

I’d prefer something other than white though!

I look awful in white, and it’s almost impossible to find anything that isn’t see-through.

 

[Lea101]

Me too trying to ignore future Lea’s meltdown if she ever gets to pick out a wedding dress, lol

 

[Duesenberg]

If a very simple and inexpensive (there could even be financial support for those that needed it) uniform was prescribed and some refused to wear it, I think that would be an excellent way to filter people out of liturgical ministries.

 

[Proverbs]

I am totally against any type of “uniform”. This is Church, not the military. Standards are one thing, but a uniform is a whole different animal.

 

[Duesenberg]

I am totally against any type of “uniform”. This is Church, not the military. Standards are one thing, but a uniform is a whole different animal.

Uniforms in this context have nothing to do with the military.

Uniforms are worn throughout the Church. From professed religious or priests.

 

[Proverbs]

Yes, because they are set apart from the laity. That is my objection to a “uniform” for lay litugical ministers. They should not be “set apart” from the rest of the congregation. And then where does it stop? Readers & EMHC? What about ushers? Should Catechists wear a uniform?
And who makes the decision? The Pastor? The Bishop? If it’s the Pastor, is each parish going to do something different, then your “uniformity” goes out the window.
We are a “universal” Church, that does not mean we all have to be “uniform”.

 

[Duesenberg]

Interesting how you transitioned from “the military” to being set apart. The uniform in this case would be a very simple way in which to ensure those laity that place themselves in the sanctuary and/or before the congregation are not dressed in an inappropriate manner. Wear the white top and the black bottom and it’s a done deal. The entire choir at my parish wears this uniform. I’m sure they do at others as well. It’s a good idea, no matter how loud the protests.

 

[Proverbs]

I am not going to argue with you.
I believe in guidelines, not uniforms.
And you are implying things I never intended with your military vs. set apart stuff, there is nothing nefarious there. If you are confused, please ask questions, but do not read more into my words.

 

[Gertabelle]

Interesting how you transitioned from “the military” to being set apart. The uniform in this case would be a very simple way in which to ensure those laity that place themselves in the sanctuary and/or before the congregation are not dressed in an inappropriate manner. Wear the white top and the black bottom and it’s a done deal. The entire choir at my parish wears this uniform. I’m sure they do at others as well. It’s a good idea, no matter how loud the protests.

This is not a uniform. This is a dress code.

My son wore a uniform for 7 years of Catholic school – specific pair of pants, specific white shirt with button down collar, specific sweater vest, specific school tie. There was no wiggle room, and no personal choices. Here’s your uniform; wear it.

The school where I teach has a dress code: khaki, blue, or black bottoms; blue, gray, or white top with collar.

There is a huge difference between a uniform and a dress code.

 

[MissRose73]

Yes, there needs to be a dress code for liturgical ministers. I’ve been to parishes where the clothing would look better for the beach, play sports etc. Yes, the burden for modesty is more on women too mainly to make sure necklines are not too low and dresses/skirts reach knees to name a few things. Even when it is not my weekend to serve, I dress up in case I am called on at the last minute to sub either by someone who calls me before church as an example.

I would say the following would be easy enough to implement:

Men - Dockers, khakis or dress pants ; Shirts with collars; ties and/or dress jackets/blazers optional; sweaters during colder months; dress shoes or other casual shoes that don’t look like tennis/athletic shoes (but okay for those who have a health reason only) ; ; no sandals or shorts in warmer times; no athletic/swim clothing; no denim; no hats;

Women - Dress pants or non denim pants that are not tight/revealing; Shirts with some form of sleeve that do not go more than 2 fingers breadth below pit of the throat (same rule applies to tops of dresses); Leggings only with dresses or tunics that come at least half way between backside and knees); Dresses and skirts not tight/revealing - reaching the knee cap region or below; no athletic/swim clothing; no denim; non athletic types of shoes (athletic ones okay for those who have a health reason only) - dress sandals allowed in summer months - no flip flop styles; blazers/dress jackets/boleros/sweaters/shawls/scarves for coverups/warmth; Accessories/jewelry/make up are fine but not to go overboard; Small hats/veils or other types of head coverings for those who practice that devotion

 

[Gertabelle]

I would say the following would be easy enough to implement:

Men - Dockers, khakis or dress pants ; Shirts with collars; ties and/or dress jackets/blazers optional; sweaters during colder months; dress shoes or other casual shoes that don’t look like tennis/athletic shoes (but okay for those who have a health reason only) ; ; no sandals or shorts in warmer times; no athletic/swim clothing; no denim; no hats;

Women - Dress pants or non denim pants that are not tight/revealing; Shirts with some form of sleeve that do not go more than 2 fingers breadth below pit of the throat (same rule applies to tops of dresses); Leggings only with dresses or tunics that come at least half way between backside and knees); Dresses and skirts not tight/revealing - reaching the knee cap region or below; no athletic/swim clothing; no denim; non athletic types of shoes (athletic ones okay for those who have a health reason only) - dress sandals allowed in summer months - no flip flop styles; blazers/dress jackets/boleros/sweaters/shawls/scarves for coverups/warmth; Accessories/jewelry/make up are fine but not to go overboard; Small hats/veils or other types of head coverings for those who practice that devotion

What if the neckline of my blouse/dress is three fingers below the pit of my throat? And is it my fingers or someone else’s? By which culture’s standards will we be determining whether accessories/jewelry/makeup go “overboard”? Will there be tape measures available to make sure that blouses/tunics worn over leggings are at least halfway between backside and knees? And where exactly does my backside start? And goodness gracious, who exactly will be doing that measuring?!

Do all those serving at mass have to fall in for inspection in the sacristy ahead of time? What about us singers/musicians in the choir loft – does it matter what we wear?

So who exactly is supposed to be implementing all this?

 

[Katie777]

One of the EMHCs is a very holy and devout older lady in my parish and if a dress code was etablished she would not be able to afford to comply.

And if the parish sup plied clothes through donations, i would rather the money go to the food pantry then outfits.

Needs outweigh wants.

 

[Duesenberg]

One of the EMHCs is a very holy and devout older lady in my parish and if a dress code was etablished she would not be able to afford to comply.

Why not? What would keep her from complying? A few bucks? Pay for an outfit for her and don’t use the food bank as an excuse.

This thread gives some good insight into the very sort of squabbling that would take place if a dress code was instituted.