Is it reasonable to have a dress code for liturgical ministers?

[Duesenberg]

What if the neckline of my blouse/dress is three fingers below the pit of my throat? And is it my fingers or someone else’s? By which culture’s standards will we be determining whether accessories/jewelry/makeup go “overboard”? Will there be tape measures available to make sure that blouses/tunics worn over leggings are at least halfway between backside and knees? And where exactly does my backside start? And goodness gracious, who exactly will be doing that measuring?!

Do all those serving at mass have to fall in for inspection in the sacristy ahead of time? What about us singers/musicians in the choir loft – does it matter what we wear?

So who exactly is supposed to be implementing all this?

Easy. Define a very simple uniform. I still like something like: modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes. If some ministers don’t have the common sense to be able to comply then quietly remove them from ministry. It wouldn’t take too many before everyone toed the line.

 

[Gertabelle]

Easy. Define a very simple uniform. I still like something like: modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes. If some ministers don’t have the common sense to be able to comply then quietly remove them from ministry. It wouldn’t take too many before everyone toed the line.

OK. So all ministers at mass are required to follow a dress code of white top with black bottom. You think people can’t find a way to be sloppy or immodest just because they’re wearing specified colors?

And if it’s the same folks that are sloppy or immodest now, why not just remove them from ministry without enforcing what everyone else wears?

 

[Duesenberg]

OK. So all ministers at mass are required to follow a dress code of white top with black bottom. You think people can’t find a way to be sloppy or immodest just because they’re wearing specified colors?

Please don’t change what I actually posted:

Easy. Define a very simple uniform. I still like something like: modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes.

And if it’s the same folks that are sloppy or immodest now, why not just remove them from ministry without enforcing what everyone else wears?

Because there would be a lot of “confusion” – real or otherwise. Better to set a very simple dress code and if people won’t follow it, then just remove them from ministry.

If the choir in my parish can pull off the modest white/black uniform, almost anyone should be able to.

 

[Proverbs]

I think that you are putting too much emphases on externals. People will always find a way to do what they want. Instead of worrying about others, do things that show a good example. Dress the way you think others should, behave the way you think others should, and don’t complain when others don’t follow, just keep taking care of you. Unless and until you are in charge all these things are out of your control, so why let them disturb your peace?

 

[TheLittleLady]

The dress code has been part of EMHC / Lector training for as long as I’ve worked for different parishes.

I’ve seen a pastor tell a woman that her top was too revealing and that she could not act as an EMHC that day.

 

[Duesenberg]

I think that you are putting too much emphases on externals. People will always find a way to do what they want.

No, not really. Set a dress code. If they choose not to follow it, then they choose not to take part in the various liturgical ministries. Were there a dress code for liturgical ministers (as there already is for choir members) at my parish, I figure upwards of 80% would follow it to the letter without any problems. Maybe another 10% would have real questions – those are the type that will accept education. The final 10% are troublemakers which should be filtered out of such ministry anyway.

 

[Proverbs]

And that is up to the Pastor and the Bishop. We do not have a dress code, per se, just guidelines. And yes, I have seen Father confront people not dressed appropriately.
And again, it is the duty of the Pastor, not lay people, no matter how well meaning.

 

[Duesenberg]

The dress code has been part of EMHC / Lector training for as long as I’ve worked for different parishes.

I’ve seen a pastor tell a woman that her top was too revealing and that she could not act as an EMHC that day.

You’re right, it’s not a big deal – if the pastor provides sufficient leadership.

 

[Duesenberg]

And again, it is the duty of the Pastor, not lay people, no matter how well meaning.

Absolutely no one on this thread has suggested it is the duty of the laity.

 

[Duesenberg]

Modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes.

Simple enough. Simple to enforce too.

 

[Proverbs]

Why white? And what about someone who has a suit, but it’s navy. Would that be excluded?
And what about ties, do you want to regulate their color? Maybe to match the liturgical color? or would that be too close to a “stole”, so no ties.

Do you see how out of hand this can get?
Set guidelines. Enforce guidelines. And if neither is your job, let it go.

 

[Gertabelle]

Modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes.

Simple enough. Simple to enforce too.

Clearly you are in love with your clever solution of the black and white.

As a musician (with a Bachelor of Music degree) who has had more performances in black and white than I can recall, I would have to find a new parish if my pastor started telling me to dress like that for mass. Nope. Nope. No. I am not dressing for mass like I’m performing a concert.

And there are plenty of parishes that would be THRILLED to have a new and dedicated organist/pianist/singer/choir director.

Seriously. Once again, you take things too far.

Since you love the black and white, petition your pastor – maybe even your bishop – to make your vision a reality.

Personally, I thank God our extremely conservative pastor has decided to address individual problems individually, and leave the rest of us to choose how to dress ourselves like the adults we are.

 

[Proverbs]

@Gertabelle
Wish I could like this 1000x!!

 

[Duesenberg]

Modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes.

The choir gets it. It’s not difficult.

Done deal.

 

[Gertabelle]

Gertabelle:

Modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes.

Modest white top, plain black slacks or skirt and plain black dress shoes.

The choir gets it.

Done deal.

Your post makes it look like that bolded part was my quote. It was not.

Maybe you could fix that?

 

[Duesenberg]

Clearly you are in love with your clever solution of the black and white.

Not my idea. It came from “Lea101” based on actual experience in her parish:

My parish has a dress code for these people, as sort of a uniform. My parish is quite lenient on dress codes in general though. I could wear jeans and a t shirt if I want to.

For them, they would have to wear black pants/skirts and a white shirt/blouse. Females have the option of pants and skirts. Proper shoes for both. But overall they have to look smart and groomed.

It sounds like an excellent idea however. Simple, inexpensive, easy, effective. A winner…

As a musician (with a Bachelor of Music degree) who has had more performances in black and white than I can recall, I would have to find a new parish if my pastor started telling me to dress like that for mass. Nope. Nope. No. I am not dressing for mass like I’m performing a concert. And there are plenty of parishes that would be THRILLED to have a new and dedicated organist/pianist/singer/choir director…

Some people will always resist change for the betterment of the celebration of the Mass. The same 5-10% that will fight ANY change (unless it’s being driven by them of course.) I’m sure another parish would indeed welcome you with open arms…

 

[Duesenberg]

This is really a fascinating thread. It shows how some will resist positive change, no matter what. A perfect simulation of parish life in so many churches.

• No matter how much good the change would potentially do.
• No matter how easily implementable the change would be.
• No matter how inexpensive the change would be.

Some people just want to fight. They want to get-over and control others. That 5-10% They want to resist. Whatever it takes. The one good thing about their actions is that they often do highlight just who should be released from ministry.

The good part is that once positive changes have been truly been institutionalized, everyone else realizes their benefit and they no longer become questioned by those looking for a fight. Their worth becomes obvious and those that don’t want to conform, simply need not take a part in ministry.

 

[Gertabelle]

Gertabelle:

As a musician (with a Bachelor of Music degree) who has had more performances in black and white than I can recall, I would have to find a new parish if my pastor started telling me to dress like that for mass. Nope. Nope. No. I am not dressing for mass like I’m performing a concert.
And there are plenty of parishes that would be THRILLED to have a new and dedicated organist/pianist/singer/choir director…

Some people will always resist change for the betterment of the celebration of the Mass. The 5-10% that will fight ANY change (unless it’s being driven by them of course.) I’m sure another parish would indeed welcome you with open arms…

Oh yeah, that’s me for sure. Always defying my pastor. Always finding something to complain about.



Actually, the only time I was even mildly upset with my pastor’s choice was when he told us we could no longer use the Missa di Angelis because it wasn’t in the hymnal and was too difficult for the congregation.

Look, my point is that I would seriously question the judgment of a pastor who required the ministers at mass to look like they were putting on some kind of performance. That’s just what black and white represents to me.

Mass is not a performance.

Now, if he wanted us all to wear choir robes, I would absolutely HATE it, but of course I’d do it. Obedience is a blessed thing.

 

[Duesenberg]

Look, my point is that I would seriously question the judgment of a pastor who required the ministers at mass to look like they were putting on some kind of performance. That’s just what black and white represents to me.

Mass is not a performance.

If you really feel that way and were faced with a dress code requirement then it would be best for you to find a new parish, rather than stay and attempt to cause problems.

Now, if he wanted us all to wear choir robes, I would absolutely HATE it, but of course I’d do it. Obedience is a blessed thing.

Absolutely fascinating how you state “Obedience is a blessed thing” when it’s your idea! Talk about transparent!

 

[Gertabelle]

This is really a fascinating thread. It shows how some will resist positive change, no matter what. A perfect simulation of parish life in so many churches.

• No matter how much good the change would potentially do.
• No matter how easily implementable the change would be.
• No matter how inexpensive the change would be.

Some people just want to fight. They want to get-over and control others. That 5-10% They want to resist. Whatever it takes. The one good thing about their actions is that they often do highlight just who should be released from ministry.

The good part is that once positive changes have been truly been institutionalized, everyone else realizes their benefit and they no longer become questioned by those looking for a fight. Their worth becomes obvious and those that don’t want to conform, simply need not take a part in ministry.

And some people will always think that:

• Their ideas are the only ideas that constitute the “good.”
• Their ideas are as easy to implement as breathing.
• Their ideas are always worthy of the cost involved to OTHERS!
• Anyone who disagrees with their brilliance are unworthy of ministry, and obviously too thick, too self-centered, or too obstinate to see the beautiful simplicity of it all.

Thanks for trying to help me with that speck in my eye, though.

Time to move on, I think.