Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[maggiemay2u]

Sure. My experience in working for DOJ in the shelter program for children lasted a period of two years betwn '97 and '99. It’s entirely likely (I guess) that terms that were more respectful terms (like Undocumented Children) were dropped in favor of the more typical terms of disrespect (like Illegal Children). Lots of attitudes and terminolgy changed in this country after 09-11. Any more details regarding programming for trafficked and sold and traded children are still on the QT. (Sorry.)

That clarifies your position, somewhat, thanks. I must ask you to cite your source that between the years of '97-'98 the USDOJ precluded the use of the term “illegal alien”, as this is not my experience in dealing with USDOJ, ICE or its predecessor, INS.

Is it possible, your change in usage was peculiar to your shelter program, and the action of your management as opposed to an actual change in the law and policy statement?

Perhaps you assumed it was a change in law and policy. Having been involved in changing civil and criminal codes, I am familiar with the process. It is long and arduous. And maybe I’m wrong, but I think the public hearings/notifications would have garnered quite a bit of attention.

Regardless, the fact remains “illegal alien” is a legal term, a description of status that is clear, regardless of jurisdiction. There is no emotion involved. It is simply the language of law.

 

[truthsavesu]

**Excuse me, fella’. **
This site forbids posting/supporting private revelation.

You might want to study the rules here.
**Like in the military? **
Check out what’s ALLOWED and what isn’t.

But you can use the bible to make any point YOU want to make. You can talk about YOUR life and how God effects you. Isn’t that a private revelation.

Hypocrisy!!!

 

[truthsavesu]

There was a brief moment several years ago when the invaders were terrified.

They used to parade around with their foreign flags waving out of cars and their cheap music screaming from balconies and their cocky attitudes daring Americans to prove how tough they are. “Look, the people that won the wars can even take us on in their own backyards. They’re all cowards.”

Then suddenly 9-11, and there was silence. And the foreign flags were taken down. And the cheap music was silenced. And the cocky attitudes were humbled. And the Lord showed me this and I was able to recognize it for what it was. They were terrified. Terrified of Americans. Terrified that when Americans get mad, they get even.

They were the foreigners and America was attacked just like at Pearl Harbor. They felt that the demoralized Americans whom they had laughed at would suddenly become avenging soldiers like their fathers had become after the attack in 1941. They were terrified of Americans and God allowed me to see this to which I will be to Him eternally grateful.

But the days and the weeks went by and no avenging took place. They began to group together in larger numbers. They cleared their throats and returned to their foreign flag waving, cheap music blaring, and cocky attitudes.

But oh Lord thank you for that vision of a humbled enemy. I see the coward for who he is and I am not afraid.

No man stands so tall as he who stands alone.

"These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph."

 

[truthsavesu]

Thank you for posting this!
We must remember we are Catholic first. Our Church is Universal.

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

 

[Karen1960]

But you can use the bible to make any point YOU want to make. You can talk about YOUR life and how God effects you. Isn’t that a private revelation.

Hypocrisy!!!

No it is not, talking about how God effects your life is not the same as claiming to have visions, as if He spoke to you like Moses.
What YOU said in your post is that you had a vision. Are you trying to tell us you are some kind of a prophet?

 

[Karen1960]

Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

Although your literalist interpetation is more then likely different,
Thank you for proving my point, as a Catholic, I rather go against popular views of the Country and follow the teachings of The Church.

 

[truthsavesu]

Although your literalist interpetation is more then likely different,
Thank you for proving my point, as a Catholic, I rather go against popular views of the Country and follow the teachings of The Church.

Justice also means seeing your country defended from invaders. Justices also means that those who made the sacrifices as soldiers did not die in vain. Justice is also the duty to defend your country from invasion even though you a but a citizen of that country.

Do you really think God expects American Catholics to just watch their country be taken over by foreigners? The OP proves that it is happening.

usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs27/27986/appenda.htm#Map1

 

[Karen1960]

Justice also means seeing your country defended from invaders. Justices also means that those who made the sacrifices as soldiers did not die in vain. Justice is also the duty to defend your country from invasion even though you a but a citizen of that country.

Do you really think God expects American Catholics to just watch their country be taken over by foreigners? The OP proves that it is happening.

usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs27/27986/appenda.htm#Map1

God does not want you to treat your fellow man with hatred.
Now reasonable immigration laws need to be in affect, but what you are proposing is to let them starve, let them be hungry, let them freeze to death, they deserve it. To deny any human being that is a sin.

 

[Lujack]

Justice also means seeing your country defended from invaders. Justices also means that those who made the sacrifices as soldiers did not die in vain. Justice is also the duty to defend your country from invasion even though you a but a citizen of that country.

Yes, that’s right. American soldiers in the Civil War and World War II fought for freedom, for a world where people wouldn’t be killed or hated because of their nationality. Following your advice would mean that they did, in fact, die in vain. I’d rather not toss their sacrifice aside.

Do you really think God expects American Catholics to just watch their country be taken over by foreigners? The OP proves that it is happening.

The OP doesn’t prove anything; it makes an argument. Besides, if the Mexicans are really taking over this country by invasion, then America has been conquered many times over, first by the Germans, than by the Irish, than by the Italians, than by the Eastern Europeans, than by the Chinese and the Japanese…

 

[catharina]

Justice also means seeing your country defended from invaders. Justices also means that those who made the sacrifices as soldiers did not die in vain. Justice is also the duty to defend your country from invasion even though you a but a citizen of that country.

Guess you’ve had private visions of the president declaring the country’s being invaded? Sure.

 

[Karen1960]

Guess you’ve had private visions of the president declaring the country’s being invaded? Sure.

I guess we have a prophet here! Can’t wait to hear his next revalation:whacky:

 

[Michael_David]

God does not want you to treat your fellow man with hatred.
Now reasonable immigration laws need to be in affect, but what you are proposing is to let them starve, let them be hungry, let them freeze to death, they deserve it. To deny any human being that is a sin.

Yes, If we had reasonable immigration laws and they were enforced, those that come here would be ‘more’ self-sufficient, speak and write our language, to be productive future citizens, who spend there earnings here in the USA, as required by the laws. We would not need drivers license tests given in 4 languages, but the signs on the road only in english; we would not need interpreters in any facet of our country. Yes, I had to learn english before I went to school (and I’m still learning it ), as our native tongue was spoke at home.

Also, those put in our path are those we are to treat humanely if we see a need (like the good Samaritan… he did not take care of all those befelled by crooks, just those he saw on his journey). So, even if our faith is universal, we do not, as single people, try to cure the world ills of all that we know are worse off, just those we have amongst us (whether legal or otherwise). If all of us do our little part where ever we are in the world (and Catholics are everywhere around the globe), things would improve.

And truthsavesu, you show that you you are versed in the Beatitudes, as well as other Bible (Catholic) principals. As such, is your ‘frustration’ more with the Church (harboring these Mexican invaders) then with the Mexican’s themselves?

 

[truthsavesu]

God does not want you to treat your fellow man with hatred.
Now reasonable immigration laws need to be in affect, but what you are proposing is to let them starve, let them be hungry, let them freeze to death, they deserve it. To deny any human being that is a sin.

The laws have always been there. All it takes is a loyal US citizenry to force the US government to act on those laws.

Who are you to take from the American poor to feed foreigners. You DUTY is to feed Americans first. If you don’t, you have no right being in this country.

This is not a rule open for debate. Every American politician that claims a loyalty to the US has an absolute duty to the US citizen before they even consider the welfare of anyone else. That’s what they get paid to do and that is what they will be held accountable for in this life as well as the next.

By the way, I wonder what Obama and the President of Mexico discussed?

 

[PaulinVA]

Bullfighter, Paul says that in Christ there is no Jew or Greek, no slave or freeman, we are all alike in the sight of God.

If Jesus was concerned about the Roman occupation of Israel he would have done something about it. He did not.

Love your neighbor as yourself. Who is my neighbor? When I feed the least of these I am feeding Jesus.

That’s what the Bible says.

Your concerns are secular, worldly, not something Christ would be concerned about.

Please, give it a rest.

 

[Michael_David]

Every American politician that claims a loyalty to the US has an absolute duty to the US citizen before they even consider the welfare of anyone else. That’s what they get paid to do and that is what they will be held accountable for in this life as well as the next.

OK, in this fair state a while back, those politicians tried to get visa/green card data put on drivers license’s and ID cards so the police would know when they encountered them… it was not passed because of the uproar saying it’s illegal to single out one class of people for this…? And those with fake ID’s or green cards (illegals) would appear fine.

How do you think this should be addressed?

 

[Karen1960]

The laws have always been there. All it takes is a loyal US citizenry to force the US government to act on those laws.

Who are you to take from the American poor to feed foreigners. You DUTY is to feed Americans first. If you don’t, you have no right being in this country.

This is not a rule open for debate. Every American politician that claims a loyalty to the US has an absolute duty to the US citizen before they even consider the welfare of anyone else. That’s what they get paid to do and that is what they will be held accountable for in this life as well as the next.

By the way, I wonder what Obama and the President of Mexico discussed?

I have told you earlier, I am a Catholic first, an American second. Jesus tells us to feed the poor, He never said check citizenship papers first before you help them.
Have your ever read the Parable of the good Samaritian?

 

[catharina]

That clarifies your position, somewhat, thanks. I must ask you to cite your source that between the years of '97-'98 the USDOJ precluded the use of the term “illegal alien”, as this is not my experience in dealing with USDOJ, ICE or its predecessor, INS.

Is it possible, your change in usage was peculiar to your shelter program, and the action of your management as opposed to an actual change in the law and policy statement?

Perhaps you assumed it was a change in law and policy. Having been involved in changing civil and criminal codes, I am familiar with the process. It is long and arduous. And maybe I’m wrong, but I think the public hearings/notifications would have garnered quite a bit of attention.

Regardless, the fact remains “illegal alien” is a legal term, a description of status that is clear, regardless of jurisdiction. There is no emotion involved. It is simply the language of law.

Perhaps this example will help you. Perhaps not.

from:

209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:NXSwf_zKCxEJ:www.refugees.org/uploadedFiles/Participate/National_Center/Resource_Library/UM%2520subject%2520to%2520ER%252008.97_Virtue_Memo.pdf+flores+et+al+vs.+janet+reno&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

Point: Minor children are termed MINORS. New law flowed from fact that US govt agents incarcerated a 14 yr-old girl with adult criminal males in a Texas jail as she awaited INS action. (1980s)

Law states that now, unaccompanied, undocumented minor children are to be treated as CHILDREN (not as aliens). There are probably dozens of references to this landmark case and to the shelter-system that DOJ regulates for these children now. My time with the children was '97, '98, '99. The children in residence, 65 at any given time, were from all over the world.

partial: “Special Treatment of Minors”
from HQINS

"(1) General Policy. When an unaccompanied minor (a person under the age of eighteen)
appears to be inadmissible under section 212(aX6XQ *or *(7) of the Act, officers should
first try to resolve the case under existing guidelines. Existing guidelines permit granting
a waiver, deferring the inspection, or employing other discretionary means, if applicable,
including withdrawal of an application for admission.

ETC…"

fyi - CASE REFERENCES CAN BE TRACKED BY FOLLOWING
“FLORES ET AL VS JANET RENO”

 

[truthsavesu]

I have told you earlier, I am a Catholic first, an American second. Jesus tells us to feed the poor, He never said check citizenship papers first before you help them.
Have your ever read the Parable of the good Samaritian?

I propose a solution to you.

For every christian that makes the claim of Catholic first, American second, should do this. Simply exchange your citizenship with a foreigner. That way you are feeding the poor of your choice and you are not hurting anyone but yourself. You are making the sacrifice that Jesus wanted. You are doing it and no one else must suffer.

Sound fair? Or are you just talk!

 

[Tigg]

The reason for this problem which has now reached epidemic proportions is because our government has completely abrogated its most basic responsibility – to protect our borders. How they can do this in light of the fact that we are fighting a war on terror is non-sensical to me, but that’s for another topic. Neither do I understand the fact that the Law of the Land is being completely ignored. The numbers alone testify that it is an invasion by foreign entities.

I do not believe anyone on this thread is neglecting their Christian duty to feed the hungry or care for the misfortunate. But what are the facts? Are they coming here because of a tyranny government seeking political asylum? No. Are they poor and seeking a better life? Yes. Are they justified in entering a country illegally for the benefits of free medical care and housing? I would try to put myself in their place and search my conscience on that question. Could I steal another’s identity and take what legally is not mine to have. I couldn’t – but certainly others could.

The facts remain that unrelenting illegal immigration to the point we are experiencing it, is unjust. The principle of justice demands fairness. Is it ethical to defend those who would forcibly take advantage of the lax policies, over those who have waited years to enter the country by legal means. I say no.

So who is the culprit in all of this? Is it the greed of big business and the betrayal of government in placing their interests above those of its citizens. Is the Catholic Church complicit? I would say absolutely. Why is the Church engaging in partisan politics, especially when the theme is “the end justifies all means?” Liberation theology would give the impression that the poor are innocent and that only they are the object of God’s concern. What is truly unjust is covered by a thin veil called “social justice,” and again, those who do not tout this philosophy are labeled racists and xenophobes.

Perhaps we can all pray that the Campaign for Human Development, who undoubtedly does fund these groups, can shift from the focus of giving the poor political power to the point of destroying the principles upon which this country was founded, to catechesis based in true love of God and neighbor and practical solutions for justice for the poor.

 

[catharina]

I propose a solution to you.

For every christian that makes the claim of Catholic first, American second, should do this. Simply exchange your citizenship with a foreigner. That way you are feeding the poor of your choice and you are not hurting anyone but yourself. You are making the sacrifice that Jesus wanted. You are doing it and no one else must suffer.

Sound fair? Or are you just talk!

Dude, HEADS UP!

Everyone suffers. It’s the human condition.