Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[Alethiaphile]

NO ONE! NO ONE has the RIGHT to be an American! NO ONE!
You earn it!

How did you “earn” it?

 

[BSHoop96]

I personally, feel no sympathy for people who wish to divide people based on national boundaries. and that national boundaries are just a tool for exploitation

I also, (and i’ll probably be receiving alot of flak for this one)
have no care whether the american way of life is preserved. I think her society is sick and corrupt in the highest places.

and. speaking as an american. Can honestly say that americans are the most uneducated, ignorant, and culturally chauvinistic society of the western (and eastern) world.

I find the emphasis on extreme nationalism within the public sphere and culture to be a uniquely American phenomena, and that it is something that can prove harmful in the long run

The church’s interest is in humanity as a whole. Not the american disease.

we’ll, thats my two cents

" You can always count on an American to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else." -Winston Churchill

I can’t believe you quoted Churchill after your post. How ironic. You must not know much about him.

What do you think made us a country able to pull together and virtually come to the rescue of Europe during the WWII? Our patriotism, our unity and our uniquely “American” phenomena. We nation of immigrants became ONE, ONE language, ONE country, lead by judeo-christian values. Do we often make a mess of things? Of course. But who does everyone else turn to when the they need assistance? The USA. Who sends help even to our enemies? The USA. (Example: helping Iran after a devastating earthquake). Who sent help to Bosnia to fight against the genocide of Muslims? The USA. Who is more than willing to take in LEGAL hard-working immigrants if only they are willing to become an American? The USA. Who virtually pulled their enemies out of the ashes (Germany, Japan) and helped turn them into the countries they are today? The USA. What country has contributed more to fight AIDS than any country in the world? You guessed it, the USA.

You say: americans are the most uneducated, ignorant, and culturally chauvinistic society of the western (and eastern) world.. Well we’ve done something right as this is the country where people want to come to.

Is this country in trouble? Yes it is. We’re spoiled. Our morals are declining. The modern world brings much that is not good. But the attitude of people like you is definitely not helping. Shame on you and goodbye. I can’t handle reading this garbage.

 

[truthsavesu]

You are wrong, and I expect an apology for accusing me of lying.

The 201st Mexican Fighter Squadron, nicknamed the Aztec Eagles, flew fifty-one combat missions while based out of Luzon, specifically flying from Clark Field. They suffered five combat deaths, and produced one ace, Charlie Foster… 15,000 other Mexican troops were sent overseas, but only the 201st saw combat. Here’s one of the sources I used (it doesn’t mention the 15,00 who saw no combat or the ace, Foster, but it does back up what I’m telling you about the Aztec Eagles):
avalanchepress.com/MexicanAirForce.php

I know all about the Zimmerman Telegram. Do you know what made it farfetched? Mexico was in a state of near-anarchy, was in talks with the ABC powers of South America on how to avoid war with the United States, and didn’t have any interest in retaking the Southwest, bandits like Pancho Villa notwithstanding. That’s what makes it so inexplicable on the part of the Germans; it wasn’t going to accomplish anything.

And what war are you talking about the Mexicans winning, anyway? They didn’t enter WWI.

No, I’m not. Mexico was the only Latin American nation other than Brazil to send any troops overseas in WWII. Contrary to your image of the country as lazy and worthless, they managed to rouse themselves from a tough situation and join the fight.

I’m sorry about what happened to your father. I really am. That sounds like a unique circumstance, though.

That’s correct. The majority of the country was white, with the next largest race being black. I liked the way Burns structured the program, though. It gives a great sense of the all-encompassing nature of WWII, and how it affected every single little group across the United States.

Proven wrong by the facts.

I’m not confusing Puerto Ricans with Mexicans.

Because you happen to be so big on history, how’s this for history?

For all that aid we dumped into Mexico, we still invaded them in 1848 for the purposes of expanding slavery and taking their land. A future American president and one of America’s greatest generals (and a veteran of the war), Ulysses S. Grant, dubbed the Mexican War as “one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger nation against a weaker”. Other American luminaries like Abraham Lincoln bitterly opposed it.

It isn’t like we’ve been the best of neighbors to Mexico over the years, as you seem to imply.

Oh, and for all your invasion rhetoric, about how they’re about to destroy American culture? American culture has changed. For two hundred years, it was bitterly anti-Catholic, and Catholics, particularly the Irish ones, were the ones who people like you would have been calling invaders.

This is really fascinating but your comments are half truths. Ulysses S. Grant did make that comment but say the rest. He also said that the US could have grabbed the whole of Mexico because the US was the victor, but was only interested in that part of which could complete the US and the US ultimately gave money to Mexico for the land which they took which at that time was unheard of. The victor usually grabbed everything.

You should also mention that General Winfield Scott was approached by the Mexican government to be the next President of Mexico but he wanted nothing to do with them.

The only Mexicans I’ve ever heard of being in WW2 were Mexican Americans who were loyal to the US. The only reference of Mexican losses in WW2 were a few casualties that were on freighters. The group you mentioned could have been one of those token groups that really never saw action.

I would say if this country owes any group it would be the African American. But their being stabbed in the back by groups favoring immigrants. Remember that racist comment Mexican President Fox made? If we don’t have a second civil war on our hands, that would be a miracle.

 

[Lujack]

This is really fascinating but your comments are half truths. Ulysses S. Grant did make that comment but say the rest. He also said that the US could have grabbed the whole of Mexico because the US was the victor, but was only interested in that part of which could complete the US and the US ultimately gave money to Mexico for the land which they took which at that time was unheard of. The victor usually grabbed everything.

You are correct in the sense that we could have taken the whole country if we wanted to, but you misattribute the reason. We didn’t decline to take the whole country because we were nice, we declined to take the whole country because we’d have to make the Mexicans citizens at some point, and not a lot of people wanted such an enormous non-white population to have political power in America, especially not an enormous block of non-white Catholics, perhaps the most hated non-black minority in the country at the time.

It wasn’t unusual, though, to give a token cash award to give the appearance of propriety and a fair trade. Cash reparations were the norm in Europe at the time as a way to say “Here, take the money and let’s make it look good.”

You should also mention that General Winfield Scott was approached by the Mexican government to be the next President of Mexico but he wanted nothing to do with them.

Why should I mention that? That would have had nothing to do with the United States annexing Mexico; it still would have been an independent country, just with Winfield Scott as president. He declined because he didn’t want to leave the army and the United States behind (and possibly because he didn’t want the headache of governing a country that had seen six coups in fifteen years or something like that).

The only Mexicans I’ve ever heard of being in WW2 were Mexican Americans who were loyal to the US. The only reference of Mexican losses in WW2 were a few casualties that were on freighters. The group you mentioned could have been one of those token groups that really never saw action.

Did you read my source? They flew several hundred combat missions, and produced an ace. That’s not a token group, that’s an actually active fighter squadron.

I would say if this country owes any group it would be the African American. But their being stabbed in the back by groups favoring immigrants. Remember that racist comment Mexican President Fox made? If we don’t have a second civil war on our hands, that would be a miracle.

We’re not going to have a second civil war on our hands. Look, did we have a second civil war when the Irish came over? The Germans? The Italians? The Eastern Europeans? The Chinese? The Japanese?

 

[grampben]

You are correct in the sense that we could have taken the whole country if we wanted to, but you misattribute the reason. We didn’t decline to take the whole country because we were nice, we declined to take the whole country because we’d have to make the Mexicans citizens at some point, and not a lot of people wanted such an enormous non-white population to have political power in America, especially not an enormous block of non-white Catholics, perhaps the most hated non-black minority in the country at the time.

It wasn’t unusual, though, to give a token cash award to give the appearance of propriety and a fair trade. Cash reparations were the norm in Europe at the time as a way to say “Here, take the money and let’s make it look good.”

Why should I mention that? That would have had nothing to do with the United States annexing Mexico; it still would have been an independent country, just with Winfield Scott as president. He declined because he didn’t want to leave the army and the United States behind (and possibly because he didn’t want the headache of governing a country that had seen six coups in fifteen years or something like that).

Did you read my source? They flew several hundred combat missions, and produced an ace. That’s not a token group, that’s an actually active fighter squadron.

We’re not going to have a second civil war on our hands. Look, did we have a second civil war when the Irish came over? The Germans? The Italians? The Eastern Europeans? The Chinese? The Japanese?

On behalf of my beautiful nation I apologise for any trouble we may have caused the the ‘American way of life’.

Before the Irish came, the USA was basically completely protestant, and all the denominations hated each other. Until the Irish (and other largely catholic groups) immigrated and occupied many former puritan heartlands, like Massachusetts.
Then the American way of life was puritanism. The catholics changed that.
If America is indeed the ‘New World’ then her way of life must always evolve. Years ago the southern way of life was to own a slave. Then it was to segregate. You telling me the ‘American way of life’ hasn’t changed.

 

[Lujack]

On behalf of my beautiful nation I apologise for any trouble we may have caused the the ‘American way of life’.

Before the Irish came, the USA was basically completely protestant, and all the denominations hated each other. Until the Irish (and other largely catholic groups) immigrated and occupied many former puritan heartlands, like Massachusetts.
Then the American way of life was puritanism. The catholics changed that.
If America is indeed the ‘New World’ then her way of life must always evolve. Years ago the southern way of life was to own a slave. Then it was to segregate. You telling me the ‘American way of life’ hasn’t changed.

Hey, you don’t have to apologize to the half-Irish one!

The more you read, though,it is astonishing how anti-Catholic America could be at times. The colony of Maryland was founded as a haven for Catholics (although it was not named for the Virgin Mary; it was named for Henrietta Maria), but within twenty-five years of its founding, the small Protestant farmers (who were always a majority) revolted, overthrew the governor, and denied Catholics the right to vote. In the early days of Massachusetts, Catholic settlement was specifically prohibited.

For one last thing that they don’t teach in American classrooms, every high schooler has heard of the Intolerable Acts-those acts passed by Parliament which were considered so tyrannical they were said to demand revolt. Most of them were fairly standard-the Quartering Act, the Navigation Act (which restricted trade), and a host of others. Most times, high schoolers have to memorize them.

However, the list of Intolerable Acts is one law shorter now than it was in 1770. What they don’t teach is the last of the Intolerable Acts-The Quebec Act. Why? Because all it did was allow the Catholic faith to continue to exist in French Canada. That was one of the acts that was considered to demand revolt. Interesting, huh?

 

[truthsavesu]

You are correct in the sense that we could have taken the whole country if we wanted to, but you misattribute the reason. We didn’t decline to take the whole country because we were nice, we declined to take the whole country because we’d have to make the Mexicans citizens at some point, and not a lot of people wanted such an enormous non-white population to have political power in America, especially not an enormous block of non-white Catholics, perhaps the most hated non-black minority in the country at the time.

Wow! You must really hate white people.

It wasn’t unusual, though, to give a token cash award to give the appearance of propriety and a fair trade. Cash reparations were the norm in Europe at the time as a way to say “Here, take the money and let’s make it look good.”

Never heard of that one either. I wonder why Grant made a point of saying that to pay them for the land was simple something not normally done.

Why should I mention that? That would have had nothing to do with the United States annexing Mexico; it still would have been an independent country, just with Winfield Scott as president. He declined because he didn’t want to leave the army and the United States behind (and possibly because he didn’t want the headache of governing a country that had seen six coups in fifteen years or something like that).

I think the Mexican people were afraid of their own kind. Things really haven’t changed much in over 150 years.

Did you read my source? They flew several hundred combat missions, and produced an ace. That’s not a token group, that’s an actually active fighter squadron.

I looked at many sources but they really don’t mention the Mexican. I looked at official records for WW2 and they mention nothing about Mexicans. Are you sure that’s not just revisionist history to make them feel important?

We’re not going to have a second civil war on our hands. Look, did we have a second civil war when the Irish came over? The Germans? The Italians? The Eastern Europeans? The Chinese? The Japanese?

Well the Mexicans I have know have an absolute hatred of Black Americans. That’s not what they call them by the way. I don’t think they’ll take to speaking Spanish either. I think that’s why most rich people own land in Europe.

 

[truthsavesu]

I ran across a mention of the 201st Fighter Squadron but nothing else about Mexico’s contribution. In the same paragraph they talk about the 25,000 Brazilian troops sent to Italy.

Here’s the source:

history.army.mil/brochures/DOA/DOA.htm

 

[Lujack]

Wow! You must really hate white people.

Oh, yeah, my hatred of white people is the reason I have a picture of Abraham Lincoln on my wall, and the reason I get the chills stepping into the Lincoln Memorial. That’s why I read books about the Irish Brigade, and why I love Irish history. That’s why I think Dwight D. Eisenhower and Teddy Roosevelt are among our greatest presidents. Oooh, I really do hate those white people. I hate my mother, and my father, and my brothers, and my grandparents, and myself, and my priest, and my bishop, and the pope, and…

Coming back to reality, though, that really is the reason that we didn’t try to annex more of Mexico. A pernicious mix of racism and anti-Catholicism. Its the same reason that the New Orleans merchants and slave traders who wanted to invade Cuba couldn’t get any support from their Southern brethren. Nobody wanted a million non-whites to become American citizens, and especially not non-white Catholics.

Heck, even if they were Scandinavians, the “one million Catholics” number would probably have been enough to scare a lot of people off.

Never heard of that one either. I wonder why Grant made a point of saying that to pay them for the land was simple something not normally done.

Really? Heck, in the 18th century, they went beyond a token sum of money and would sometimes even trade land. Even when an opponent was totally defeated, they would traditionally receive at least some token concessions.

I think the Mexican people were afraid of their own kind. Things really haven’t changed much in over 150 years.

Not so much of their own kind as they were afraid of Santa Ana, who they hated and knew would probably remain in power, because he was just competent enough to do that, while being incompetent enough to screw everything else up.

If they hadn’t been kicked around so much, first by Santa Ana, then by us, then by Maximillian, they’d probably be in better shape. As it is, they haven’t done too badly.

I looked at many sources but they really don’t mention the Mexican. I looked at official records for WW2 and they mention nothing about Mexicans. Are you sure that’s not just revisionist history to make them feel important?

I posted a source, for God’s sake!

avalanchepress.com/MexicanAirForce.php

Do you think that’s an invention out of whole cloth?

Well the Mexicans I have know have an absolute hatred of Black Americans. That’s not what they call them by the way. I don’t think they’ll take to speaking Spanish either. I think that’s why most rich people own land in Europe.

The Mexicans I know don’t, and I go to college in a county with a pretty hefty population of migrant workers, even if it isn’t in a border state.

What do your last two sentences mean?

 

[NDN]

I think the vast majority of Latinos coming here are only looking for a better life for their families. Gang bangers are a fact of life here in the US, and has been for a long time. Historically, these people didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them. The Catholic Church is a universal human and divine institution. She is supposed to look out for human rights, even if it contradicts current national laws. I also don’t see anything wrong with a municipality legislating refusals to use their resources to enforce federal law. That is what federal marshalls and “la Migra” are supposed to do. If the “illegals” commit a crime, arrest them and deport them. I have worked with these people for most of my life. I have learned to speak their language. I have found that they will work 2 or 3 jobs totaling about 16 to 18 hrs a day to support them selves, and send money home to help their families. They do the work that most white and black Americans won’t do. Try 10 hrs a day harvesting potatoes, or carrots or strawberries. It is hard work and doesn’t pay that well. Remember too, it wasn’t that long ago that your own ancestors immigrated to these shores to make a better life for themselves and their decendants, and the world changed for the natives. Pax Christi

 

[catharina]

I think the vast majority of Latinos coming here are only looking for a better life for their families. Gang bangers are a fact of life here in the US, and has been for a long time. Historically, these people didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them. The Catholic Church is a universal human and divine institution. She is supposed to look out for human rights, even if it contradicts current national laws. I also don’t see anything wrong with a municipality legislating refusals to use their resources to enforce federal law. That is what federal marshalls and “la Migra” are supposed to do. If the “illegals” commit a crime, arrest them and deport them. I have worked with these people for most of my life. I have learned to speak their language. I have found that they will work 2 or 3 jobs totaling about 16 to 18 hrs a day to support them selves, and send money home to help their families. They do the work that most white and black Americans won’t do. Try 10 hrs a day harvesting potatoes, or carrots or strawberries. It is hard work and doesn’t pay that well. Remember too, it wasn’t that long ago that your own ancestors immigrated to these shores to make a better life for themselves and their decendants, and the world changed for the natives. Pax Christi

Great post.

 

[pnewton]

I can never understand why some choose to cling to their hatred and prejudice in the name of patriotism or religion. The original question assumes that the “American Way of Life” is as they defince it. Most Americans would be appalled by such a position.

 

[catharina]

I can never understand why some choose to cling to their hatred and prejudice in the name of patriotism or religion. The original question assumes that the “American Way of Life” is as they defince it. Most Americans would be appalled by such a position.

… especially since the ‘position’ includes propping up the notion of “hating one’s enemy” and that’s an absolute contradiction of the words of Jesus Christ and of all Christian teaching.

 

[truthsavesu]

This is really a good subject because it shows what people are willing to put up with and what people are willing to die for.

The American Way of Life seems to be on trial here. Since I don’t know who is an American on this site, I don’t know who this addresses.

Should the soldier hate his enemy? Should the victim of oppression hate the oppressor? Have you ever been bullied? If you allow the bully to attack you, you will be his slave forever.

Will you allow a country that has given you more than you could find anywhere else in the world be invaded by a group that seeks to change the American Way of Life? Do you owe anything to those who fought for this American Way of Life in the past? Are you willing to accept an America that has been progessively getting worse because of the culture you refuse to fight against?

Is “Love Thy Neighbor” the biggest cop out for people who are too afraid to fight, too confused by its message, just too plain lazy, or wish to profit by the current climate of apathy in America.

The “conscientious objector” is a puzzled person. He has no clear ideals other than looking out for number one, but to consider himself a coward is too repulsive to him so he adopts a religious posture. He runs away physically and mentally and forces others to clean up the mess. He takes no responsibility in what is going on in the world. Everyone who brings up a solution to the problem that might require him to fight for his country is instantly a war monger or a racist because he wants no waves to rock his little lifeboat called self interest.

How many people really know what charity is. Charity is sacrificing your life for the sake of others. True charity has no reward motive. It is total self sacrifice. If you felt good about it, you received a reward and it’s not true charity.

If you say that this is a new world and the sacrifices of the people of the past do not matter. That the world will be safe with the current flow of people from third world countries influencing the direction the United States of America takes, are you really just kidding your self. Will you feel safe 10 years down the road when you can no longer find safety anywhere in this country? Doesn’t the American have a resposibility to the rest of the world to keep America safe for the rest of the world?

If the sacrifices of the people of the past do not matter, how can you claim the sacrifice that Jesus made is important to you?

The question I ask here are questions that every American must ask himself. Then he must be able to live with the answers and himself.

Several years ago when the United States was glorying in the accomplishments of “the greatest generation” of World War 2, a news show went to a typical American high school and asked the students of a typical classroom, “Do you think that your generation would make the sacrifices that was made of the greatest generation of World War 2?”. A brave young student got up from his desk and answered, “No. I believe the people of my generation are too into themselves to make sacrifices like that.” I wonder if he realizes today just how right he was.

 

[truthsavesu]

*Well the Mexicans I have know have an absolute hatred of Black Americans. That’s not what they call them by the way. I don’t think they’ll take to speaking Spanish either. I think that’s why most rich people own land in Europe. *

The Mexicans I know don’t, and I go to college in a county with a pretty hefty population of migrant workers, even if it isn’t in a border state.

What do your last two sentences mean?

To clarify, most African American don’t like being pushed into someone elses culture. They won’t take being forced to learn Spanish kindly. I live in a big city where Mexicans don’t plant or pick crops and if you suggested that they take a job that a white or black won’t do, you may not live much longer. These aren’t the kindly old men ranchers wearing sombreros. These are tatoo filled, angry, drunk, drug pushers. They aren’t migrant workers either. They are taking the good jobs that their propaganda department swore they never would.

Oh, well! Kiss you father’s America good-bye!

 

[Michael_David]

Yes Truthsavesu, our parents America is not here now. Remember when you didn’t even know where the key to the house door was? Or when the cars used a push-button to start (no key)? Or when you could walk around town at night and come home safe and sound? Those times were slower too, the pace was more relaxed. Inflation and wage increases were measured in pennies, not dollars, and 3K a year could be classed as ‘middle income’, not a monthly earning. Yes, those times are gone… but, it wasn’t immigrants that did it, it was our own pursuit of the self-interest, add a dash of greed and we are at today.

Back then, enough was good enough, no more was needed or pursued after for the sake of a bigger piece of the rock. The family meant more then money; the Church was full on Sunday; people knew their neighbors and even got together with them for socials; about the only drug around was liquor. And it is this too, the drugs, that have changed the face of America. It is not only pursued by one nationality either, all of them and all the races have their share of the drug scene… and many times fight each other for ‘turf’.

Some call the problem the ‘me’ generation… perhaps; I call most of these the ‘baby’ generation. Just because one is hurting, pop a drug to feel better, rather then face it like the parents did, head-on. The parents were ‘feelers’ of both Joy and Pain that came ‘naturally’ from doing what it takes to get there in their living life; not poppers of every sort of drug to pull one up, or push one down or come off another by using another. Some worked years to achieve their goals, hope was there the whole time and hard work… instant gratification was not in the vocabulary. I remember hearing the song by Tennessee Ernie Ford, “The Old Rugged Cross” played by my grandparents and parents many-many times… and it was their own lives relating to it that sank in with me. The pain that is so avoided in this USA today, was so much a part of USA yesterday, it was them carrying their cross, and feeling the weight and burden, and not leaving it for anyone else to carry, especially their own kids.

If one’s parents want what is best for their kids, then ‘spoiling’ them should not be part of it… raise them by ‘example’. And that means for us to carry our cross, like they carried theirs… not try to cop-out of it, or pass it off to someone else.

Yes, which came first the drugs, or the desire to remove pain (mental and spiritual pain)? And which came first, the unwillingness to carry one’s cross or near empty Churches? Can any of this Old-Style Living ever be in tomorrow? Or is it lost forever?

 

[grampben]

The American Way of Life seems to be on trial here. Since I don’t know who is an American on this site, I don’t know who this addresses.

Whos American way of life? As I have said before, it has changed many times. If America had kept to her original way of life there’d be slavery, and total hatred of catholics. Read my previous post as I will not repeat myself.
America is a land of hope, not a land of xenophobia.

 

[pnewton]

The American Way of Life seems to be on trial here.

Whose “American Way of Life?” I am every bit as much and American as you are and have no objection at all to immigration, and even an understanding as why people immigrate illegally, although I do not condone it. I also fully support the Catholic Church’s ministry to these people. Does that make me less of an American? Don’t make me laugh. My patriotism is as strong as any here except for those who put love of country ahead of love of God.

Is “Love Thy Neighbor” the biggest cop out for people who are too afraid to fight, too confused by its message, just too plain lazy, or wish to profit by the current climate of apathy in America.
No. If you would read your Bible or attend Mass you would already know that this is a direct commandment from the God who made you.

 

[grampben]

This whole ‘I’m not anti-immigration, I’m anti illegal immigration. you dirty socialists hate the law!’ attitude from many on the right does not work. These people aren’t ‘pro-illegal immigration’ as a concept, they think the immigration laws are too strict and so should be liberalised.
Does this mean that anyone who wants to change the law hates the law? What if FOCA becomes law and people don’t like FOCA? The logic doesn’t work.

 

[truthsavesu]

Whos American way of life? As I have said before, it has changed many times. If America had kept to her original way of life there’d be slavery, and total hatred of catholics. Read my previous post as I will not repeat myself.
America is a land of hope, not a land of xenophobia.

If your info is correct, you live in Ireland. You guys can’t get along with your own kind let alone different races. Give us a break!!

What does someone from Ireland know about the problems of America.

Another armchair general whose never been in a battle. I read the original post. It’s about the Catholic Church helping to betray loyal Americans by helping (financing) foreign groups to effect local governments in the US to become havens for specific illegal immigrant groups.

What does any of that have to do with who deserves what when it isn’t in YOUR neighborhood? When what is happening isn’t effecting you in the slightest?