Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[Michael_David]

Vietnam war is NOT the issue. The issue is an invasion of Mexican for which we have not been given a reason, other than the fact they are Mexican.

And, does the Church consider this Mexican ‘invasion’ just? One that we are to condone? Whether they are legal or illegal?

 

[Lujack]

Read the OP.

Is it right for the Catholic Church to push it’s own American poor people aside and devote the majority of its donations to fund “terrorist” groups that endanger the lives of loyal American citizens.

And groups that organize armies of thousands of marchers, waving foreign flags to intimidate Americans are just as threatening as suicide bombers. They are just as hateful as the Nazis marching down the streets of Paris in WW2. Therefore the label “terrorists” is accurate.

If they can force American town and cities to change laws to make a haven for foreign gangsters, then you are no longer supporting loyal Americans. You are killing them.

You’ve lost it. You’ve absolutely lost it. Peaceful, legal protests permitted under American law are just as bad as suicide bombers and the Nazis?

 

[grampben]

And, does the Church consider this Mexican ‘invasion’ just? One that we are to condone? Whether they are legal or illegal?

I didn’t come up with this, it was truthsavesu, ask him.
He said Mexico the country, not Mexican immigrants.

Killing can only be justified if there is a morally justifiable reason (obviously), not just cause Caesar says so.
Life comes before patriotism, but sadly I admit sometimes in order to preserve life, and to stop evil, killing is necessary. It’s always sad however to hear of civilian deaths.

 

[Michael_David]

Killing can only be justified if there is a morally justifiable reason (obviously), not just cause Caesar says so.
Life comes before patriotism, but sadly I admit sometimes in order to preserve life, and to stop evil, killing is necessary. It’s always sad however to hear of civilian deaths.

Yes, and this is why I ask “who wins”?

In referring to Caesar, I mean not to take matters into my own hands, as long as my life is not threatened… but rather, letting Caesar’s authorities handle the situation… like you calling the police if someone is trying to break into your house.

So far, I do not doubt the American Caesar if he calls my name again… he has been fairly just up to this point with his citizens. If the Good Lord draws my attention away from that premise for some reason, then time will tell what I do.

Looking at the President with his citizens is compared to looking at dad/mom with his/her family… what would each do to protect their citizens/kids? Is it always for the ‘universal’ good? Or more for the ‘common’ or ‘family’ good?

 

[maggiemay2u]

THANK YOU FOR THIS OBSERVATION! My sentiments exactly, but I did read somewhere that a liberal, activist judge, (perhaps it was AZ) steeped within the confines of his political correctness, passed a ruling that the term illegal alien could no longer be used in that state.

Re: Arizona judge–it was a memo sent around the chambers with some demands of words to be avoided by an activist group, but it carried no weight.

Mine is simply an observation in this fiery topic. I have my own views on illegal immigration and how to best deal with the situation. It includes an end to the mythical support from many entities. If the LA diocese was interested in helping the Mexican and Central American population, the Taj Mahoney should have remained St Vibiana’s and the funds diverted to projects that would build communities and industries in the country of origin.The same can be said of the new Oakland cathedral.

I hope all who are welcoming illegal activity are reaching deeply into their own pockets to fund projects in counties of origin. The money going to Catholic and other foundations, located in other countries, goes much further than the contributions made to huge bureaucracies here. Of all the remedies for illegal alien"problem", assisting them to build and grow their own nations, seems the most loving and Christian of things to do.

In my experience, most illegal aliens who come here to work do not want to be Americans. They are proud Mexican citizens and will become citizens only if they are forced to do so in order to remain. Just as I might travel to Japan to work because it is a lucrative deal, I don’t want to be part of the Empire, and as soon as I have gotten my final check, I’m out of there. Why do we view our Hispanic brothers as less than us?

I am part of a multicultural family, with recent immigrants on both sides. They took their turn in line. They had to provide a sponsor or have sufficient funds to demonstrate they would not be a drain on the economy. They had to have medical and criminal checks. They had to learn the language and history of the US and the Constitution.

There are people all over the globe who want to come here. The present wink and nod system of allowing illegal immigrants from a few countries jump the line, by virtue of proximity, is inherently unfair.

 

[Karen1960]

And I was referring to a change of heart… which leads to the ability of wearing another’s shoes for a day, to increase understanding, and ‘fullness’ of view.

Christ became like us… so as He could then lead us out of where we were… to where we should be. This was done from the ‘inside’, at the place we then were… not keeping one’s distance and making comments.

We all are a mishmash of good and bad… the idea is to increase the good making no more room for the bad. Everyone has some good, and yes, some bad… where are you looking?

I don’t understand why are you going after me. I am not attacking anyone, I simply told the person he need to go for help to a Church, if he truly needs help and spend sometime in prayer for his anger. I can not personally go to him, I would if I could, I would make him a hot meal and try to help him. Apparently he lives in Chicago and I live in South.

 

[Michael_David]

I don’t understand why are you going after me. I am not attacking anyone, I simply told the person he need to go for help to a Church, if he truly needs help and spend sometime in prayer for his anger. I can not personally go to him, I would if I could, I would make him a hot meal and try to help him. Apparently he lives in Chicago and I live in South.

Karen, please accept my apology.

I was merely drawing out the ‘Christian’ thing to do with what we knew.

I do like that ‘Southern Hospitality’ you mention. Witnessed it when I was in Tennessee and some neighboring states.

Again, I’m sorry if my questioning seemed like an attack, it was in no way meant to be any more then a ‘seeking’ conversation.

Also, welcome to this site, you will find some very warm topics along with some cooler ones… all are interesting in their own ways.

 

[Karen1960]

Karen, please accept my apology.

I was merely drawing out the ‘Christian’ thing to do with what we knew.

I do like that ‘Southern Hospitality’ you mention. Witnessed it when I was in Tennessee and some neighboring states.

Again, I’m sorry if my questioning seemed like an attack, it was in no way meant to be any more then a ‘seeking’ conversation.

Also, welcome to this site, you will find some very warm topics along with some cooler ones… all are interesting in their own ways.

Accepted, sorry for being too sentive also and thank you for welcoming me!
I do like this site, especially the Apologetics section.

 

[Michael_David]

Accepted, sorry for being too sentive also and thank you for welcoming me!
I do like this site, especially the Apologetics section.

And me not being sensitive enough… we continue to learn… every day.

 

[pnewton]

Looks like someone got up on the wrong side of bed today. So much anger and hatred will poison one’s soul. I am pleased that this forum is solidly enough Catholic that no one is biting into his lynch mob mentality.

 

[Tigg]

Re: Arizona judge–it was a memo sent around the chambers with some demands of words to be avoided by an activist group, but it carried no weight.

Mine is simply an observation in this fiery topic. I have my own views on illegal immigration and how to best deal with the situation. It includes an end to the mythical support from many entities. If the LA diocese was interested in helping the Mexican and Central American population, the Taj Mahoney should have remained St Vibiana’s and the funds diverted to projects that would build communities and industries in the country of origin.The same can be said of the new Oakland cathedral.

****Very astute….did no one discuss the possibilities of this? ****

I hope all who are welcoming illegal activity are reaching deeply into their own pockets to fund projects in counties of origin. The money going to Catholic and other foundations, located in other countries, goes much further than the contributions made to huge bureaucracies here. Of all the remedies for illegal alien"problem", assisting them to build and grow their own nations, seems the most loving and Christian of things to do.

**Again, I agree! But those who tout liberation theology within the Church would have none of this. They have carried their message of helping the poor to include revolutions here, in this country, with an aim of bringing down certain elements of capitalism. To me it is more humanism than social justice. **

In my experience, most illegal aliens who come here to work do not want to be Americans. They are proud Mexican citizens and will become citizens only if they are forced to do so in order to remain. Just as I might travel to Japan to work because it is a lucrative deal, I don’t want to be part of the Empire, and as soon as I have gotten my final check, I’m out of there. Why do we view our Hispanic brothers as less than us?

I am part of a multicultural family, with recent immigrants on both sides. They took their turn in line. They had to provide a sponsor or have sufficient funds to demonstrate they would not be a drain on the economy. They had to have medical and criminal checks. They had to learn the language and history of the US and the Constitution.

**Absolutely right on – our family has immigrants on both sides as well, and although individual cultures were maintained within the family unit, they came here to settle and to meld into everything that comprised the American way of life; they were proud when they became citizens and certainly had to desire to go back to their former countries of origin. **

There are people all over the globe who want to come here. The present wink and nod system of allowing illegal immigrants from a few countries jump the line, by virtue of proximity, is inherently unfair.

I couldn’t agree more! It’s a slap in the face to those who try to do things by the book, but since our current administration (and the new one, I’m just as sure) tends to govern by forming big business partnerships rather than truly representing us, the people, the policy will remain, and I’m certain, that just as he promised, Obama will work to pass an amnesty deal.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

yeah buddy, its like they forget that G-d made us all, and as such we are all our brothers keeper, first and foremost. At the final accounting, i dont think G-d will ask if we only took in those who looked, or spoke like us. there are much more important issues to worry about.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Accepted, sorry for being too sentive also and thank you for welcoming me!
I do like this site, especially the Apologetics section.

You are so kind Karen. I’m afraid I am less charitable, although I pray for his soul (truthsavesu) my charity would not go as far as fixing him a meal that’s for sure. I cannot stand to be in the presence of folks like this and it would definitely be something I would have to offer up if it was forced upon me. Actually and unfortunately there are one or two folks in my family that are just as narrow minded; but I avoid them like the plague. I for one have had enough of this guys drivel and will stop reading this thread.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I’m one of those poor Americans.

You’re not poor so get over yourself. Being poor is not knowing when food is going to be put on the table, not knowing if you can afford to heat your home (or live under a roof).

Poverty is different from merely living in uncomfortable circumstances.

If you’re so poor, sell the computer you’re using to spew your bile and buy some food.

 

[truthsavesu]

As I said prior: "Per usual you ignored my point.

My POINT: you cannot PRETEND that hating “your enemy” is in any way a Christian behavior. It’s not. It’s the opposite of Christian practice."

Others have said it too. You should NOT pretend that you are in line with Christian teaching when you promote HATRED. Since you’ve also said that you “believe” that ‘most Americans and most veterans’ think as you do, I can only say that your views are based in obvious delusion or worse - and that has nothing to do with Chirstianity.

Maybe you can help? Is this a site where Catholics figure out what is wrong and try to fix it or is this just another “lets see what the bible says” website for people who run from life instead of facing life’s problems.

 

[grampben]

Maybe you can help? Is this a site where Catholics figure out what is wrong and try to fix it or is this just another “lets see what the bible says” website for people who run from life instead of facing life’s problems.

What is wrong is Xenophobia, hatred, and an outright objection to christianity in the name of patriotism.

 

[LDNCatholic]

What is wrong is Xenophobia, hatred, and an outright objection to christianity in the name of patriotism.

I’d add racism too as a lot of the Mexicans are Mexican-American, so not foreigners at all. As America is a nation of mongrels and mixed ethnicities he is also indulging in a bit of self hate.

 

[maggiemay2u]

yeah buddy, its like they forget that G-d made us all, and as such we are all our brothers keeper, first and foremost. At the final accounting, i dont think G-d will ask if we only took in those who looked, or spoke like us. there are much more important issues to worry about.

My friend, my view is based on intellectual honesty and true concern for the plight of the poor globally. I do not want to hand the man the fish and feed him for one day, I want to teach him to fish so that he can feed himself forever (can’t remember the credit–sorry)

I do what makes sense to me. If I was a Mexican citizen, with a proud heritage, and a nation with boundless natural resources, I wouldn’t want to be anything else. The problem then is how to get the poor Mexicans educated and working to build their own country and not have them as beggars in the night.

I contribute to an organization that takes volunteers to various parts of Mexico to rebuild infrastructure, homes and places of worship. My sons volunteered a summer semester to help; I hope they will do so again. I would like the organization to be expanded to include funding of co-op factories and businesses, and the building of schools. Rather that than sitting by as generation after generation of have nots is produced, and told by their officials to leave the country, work illegally here and send the money back. That, IMHO, is bad business all the way around, and does nothing to raise up the individual.

I believe it is the duty of Christians to pony up and not rely on the government or the diocese to do the right thing.

 

[maggiemay2u]

I’d add racism too as a lot of the Mexicans are Mexican-American, so not foreigners at all. As America is a nation of mongrels and mixed ethnicities he is also indulging in a bit of self hate.

There’s a lot of vitriol running around loose here, to be sure. I do not join with those who are in such pain that they strike out, although I will pray for them.

My purpose is for a bunch of brainiacs (that would be the CAF crew ) to get together and start thinking outside of the racist/xenophobe mode for a solution. Just saying welcome everyone and feeding them is not a solution, it is a band aid.

I am not opposed to sharing my time, talent and treasure with the oppressed. I am opposed to global unfairness and agendas that may run the gamut from naive goodwill to sinister growth of a power base, without regard for the damage done to all sides.

I am mystified that many who see the consequences of greenhouse gases fail to see the consequences of failure to cure the problem, not merely treat it, in regard to the issue of border enforcement.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Well closing the borders because one particular group ‘‘has taken enough’’ is not the answer either.

With regard to my vitriol towards bullfighter/truthsavesu. I call it like I see it, and I see racism. I’ve seen, dealt with, recieved and confronted enough to know it whatever disguise it wants to wear. If that is not the case I will withdraw my statement when satisfactory evidence to the contrary has been produced.