Is it right (or within the rights) of Catholic schools to expell unwed mothers?

[rcballi46]

We’re governed by rules and private institutions have those. If a teaching order nun gets pregnant, will she be allowed to still teach in a Catholic school? I don’t think so. That said as to public schools, we’ve come a long way. In the 60’s or 70’s a high school girl would be pretty much blocked from graduation. I know several that have a GED and a wonderful child but were snickered upon by the high school in charge.
Most of us have issues against abortion… I’m pro adoption when it’s not ideal to raise the child yourself which works so well. I know the Catholic Church has issues about birth control. That’s very sad they are so far behind the times and reallistic family planning. There are many times, you’ll find me saying I’m a cafetria Catholic. I take what I want and with all due respect leave the rest behind. God is my Judge, not some man made old church rules or my parish priest.

Please, with all due respect change your Religion from Catholic to Whatever - that would be more truthful and accurate!

Thank you and may the ‘Creator’ bless you.

 

[choy]

Do you think that the Bible is saying that no one (since all have sinned) has the right to be critical of sinful acts of another? I don’t think so. Imagine, if you will society doing that. There would be no need for a court system; no law enforcement; and parents would be allowing their children to hang out with drug dealers on street corners. Nah, we are indeed supposed to judge the actions of our Christian brothers and sisters and hold one another accountable before God. If I am committing mortal sin, and someone knows about it, I hope that they will be Christian enough to grab me up and straighten me out. My soul may very well depend on it.

i totally agree on this. but expulsion will not straighten them out. you said it yourself, you hope someone will be Christian enough to grab you, not throw you out. kicking them out of school sends the message that they are not wanted, that they are a disgrace. and whats worse for a teen who’s just starting to build their self-esteem than to feel unwanted? who do they turn to? and thats where the school should have been in the first place. since they are providing a Catholic education, now is the best time to drive a lesson. now that they are feeling the consequences and seeing first hand that their parents, their teachers, their priests were right all along, any further message if delivered in the proper way will be received better and remembered better. i don’t see that being accomplished by throwing her out of school.

Of course we should practice forgiveness and mercy. First, being forgiven does not mean that consequences are suspended. If young Billy drives his father’s car into the mailbox, his father may well forgive him, but young Billy may still be expected to replace the mailbox and pay for any damage to the car. As for mercy… how merciful is it to teach teenagers that there are no consequences for pre-marital sex? If the teens are not held accountable for their decisions and actions, what do you think they will learn?

you can’t suspend the consequence, they already have a child. isn’t that a big enough consequence? that they’ve lost their youth and being thrust into a role of an adult years before they are ready? that enough poses a huge challenge for kids and therefore they need all the support they can get. they already have that consequence for the rest of their lives in the form of the baby.

 

[Tietjen]

i am not against the school taking disciplinary action. but not any disciplinary action is acceptable. even God knows that severe disciplinary action is not warranted all the time. remember Noah?

Yes, wasn’t that where God expelled all the students in the world (accept one family) from life?

and i suppose your method, base on how you side on explusion, is to spank children silly until they comply?

First, why are you “supposing” anything? If you want to know my opinion on spanking simply ask me. I believe that spanking (not to be confused with beating) IS indeed a legitimate form of punishment that parents may decide to use or may decide not to use. As for spanking children “silly,” that is simply untrue. I never encourage silly behavior.

you only see the matter as black or white.

That’s because I ask myself,”is the action considered Grave Matter or isn’t it?” In other words, might a soul’s chance at Heaven hang in the balance? I believe that it is a rather serious matter.

either they get expelled or not punished at all.

I do believe that you are again assuming too much. I also know with great certainty that in an earlier post I specifically stated that I could support a Catholic school’s decision up to and including expulsion. I NEVER stated that the school should be required to either expel the child or take no action at all.

what i see is the entire spectrum of colors in the middle. there is a right amount of punishment but at the same time take this as an opportunity.

So do I. The difference is you support taking that opportunity and turning it into an act of debatable compassion. I am all about taking that opportunity and using it to teach her and the students that attend the Catholic school that there are consequences for bad behavior; which I assert is actually more compassionate than your idea of not holding the young woman accountable. I would be doing so in the hope that perhaps the situation would not repeat itself, either with the young woman or with other teens (male and female) who attend school there.

how was your teen years? rosy probably.

Rosy… yes, let’s see. I grew up on the streets of Miami, was a gang member, the police knew me by sight, and in the end and by the grace of God, I left there 3 days after I turned 18, only to have returned for 1 wedding and 1 funeral in the last 26 years. I turned my life around, became “respectable,” got married, had a family, raised three children who are now all in college, and I thank God for delivering me out of my “rosy teen years” quite often. Now, are there anymore assumptions you’d like to make concerning my past or even my present?

perhaps thats why you never see the viewpoint of other people who are more in the average of what is happening today. perhaps you never lived in a home that was over disciplined to the point that you resent your parents and any authority that would enforce a harsh punishment on you.

Please… my father was 6’4" and just over 200lbs. From the age of 9, I can recall being disciplined by him using a closed fist. But this isn’t really about me is it? This thread is about… oh, what am I saying, you of all people should know what this thread is about… you started it.

did you? i did. thats why i know expulsion won’t work.

And my background and experience leads me to believe that strong consequences often do help to teach potiential violators of morality. I left my teenage past behind for that very reason. I got tired of the consequences for my actions. I knew that it was only a matter of time before I would have to pay a huge consequence, one that I was unwilling to face. Thus, my behavior changed and I left that life behind for good.

if you never experienced these realities of life, then Praise and Thank God for the wonderful blessing you have received. really, i mean it from the bottom of my heart. while for me it helped transform me to a better person, i’ve seen too many other people who just become even more lost.

I praise and thank God for the blessing I received as a teen all the time. Because of who I was as a teen, I could very quickly recognize signs of trouble and knew exactly how to stop it in my children’s lives (they had consequences). As a result, two out of three of my kids are on full academic scholarships (Go Vanderbilt!!!) and one is in college while at the same time holding down a fulltime job. BECAUSE of the consequences (expulsion is next to nothing) that I faced as a teen, my life was turned around and that inturn gave me the knowledge needed in life to ensure that my kids never became the type of teenager that I was. So, I find it very interesting that two people who both were raised outside of “rosy” childhoods can come away having completely opposit views on accountability when it comes to teens and morality.

 

[Tietjen]

Also, as to the unwed with child, it brings me back to Mary and what she was deemed about to give birth to Jesus. At least she had Joseph by her side.

More than that, she had God by her side and the knowledge that she was doing the will of God! It’s certainly not appropriate to compare our Holy Mother’s pregnancy with a teenage girl who became pregnant due to pre-marital sex rather than divine intervention.

 

[Tietjen]

you can’t suspend the consequence, they already have a child. isn’t that a big enough consequence? that they’ve lost their youth and being thrust into a role of an adult years before they are ready? that enough poses a huge challenge for kids and therefore they need all the support they can get. they already have that consequence for the rest of their lives in the form of the baby.

So you would make the argument that the baby herself is a… what… punishment? Let me ask you something then, take the fact that the girl is pregnant out of it for a moment. Focus instead on the actual sin (which as others have pointed out is not the actual pregnancy). A young woman and a young man are caught having sex behind the bleachers. Are you still as… what’s the word? conservative?.. no, that’s not it. AH, liberal with your views on mercy? If so, how do you justify the consequences then? You don’t want them expelled, there may not even be a baby to label as a “consequence.” If you do in fact change your position and agree that the school has the right to expel the students, how do you justify this. The only difference between the two situations is a pregnancy. We’ve already agreed (at least I have) that being pregnant isn’t the sin, but rather the sin is sex outside of marriage. If the young women in these two differing scenarios are guilty of the same sin (the pre-martial sex) then shouldn’t their consequence be the same?

If this post is difficult to understand, I apologize. It’s 2:57am and I’m having trouble keeping my eyes open. Night all.:hypno:

 

[Glenoy]

Tietjen,

I am glad you are participating in the thread here. I agree with your views. I share the same view with you regarding this topic.

Tietjen, you have said already what has to be said. I believe you have done your part but sadly many had a hard time agreeing with you. I can not help but ask you, Are you a Filipino Tietjen? Of course I know you are not by reading you profile, but reading your posts reveals you shared the same values of a true Filipino.

I am ashamed of a Filipino here who tried to win an argument against you…because I am a Filipino and I know the Filipino values.

 

[FAB]

Tietjen;5731663]Do you think that the Bible is saying that no one (since all have sinned) has the right to be critical of sinful acts of another? I don’t think so. Imagine, if you will society doing that. There would be no need for a court system; no law enforcement; and parents would be allowing their children to hang out with drug dealers on street corners. Nah, we are indeed supposed to judge the actions of our Christian brothers and sisters and hold one another accountable before God. If I am committing mortal sin, and someone knows about it, I hope that they will be Christian enough to grab me up and straighten me out. My soul may very well depend on it.

Please don’t go to extremes. I never said that we cannot have a judicial system, but now you are saying that any one having sex outside of marraige needs to be punished. Expelling this girl is the same as putting a big red ‘A’ on her chest. We should haved learned from history how that worked out.
We can find a way to show christian love to this girl without making her an out cast. I can guess that you are pro-life. The biggest criticizm for pro-lifers is that they don’t want babies aborted, but yet are willing to put little resources into carring for the mother and child. I know the Church has the Gabrial project, an extention of that would be to allow pregnat girls into Catholic Schools as a sign of our love and caring.

Of course we should practice forgiveness and mercy. First, being forgiven does not mean that consequences are suspended. If young Billy drives his father’s car into the mailbox, his father may well forgive him, but young Billy may still be expected to replace the mailbox and pay for any damage to the car. As for mercy… how merciful is it to teach teenagers that there are no consequences for pre-marital sex? If the teens are not held accountable for their decisions and actions, what do you think they will learn?

Perhaps if we are not so worried about showing them the consequences of thier actions, and care for them in aloging way, they will then experince the love of Christ. How does pushing this girl away form the Church help her experiance anything but condemnation?
Many people are driven from the church by the attitude that you are expressing.
Give unto Cezar, let the goverment deal out punishment, Give to God, we as a Church give love and understanding.

Peace,
FAB

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

Let those without sin cast the first stone. If we are to teach forgiveness and mercy, we must also be the first to practice it.
If we don’t we shouldn’t have a school or Church.

Peace,
FAB

I agree with your post. Some preaching here have to remember God made it possible so that boys age 13 or younger and girls around the same age 13, 14 can physically create a baby however they are not allowed to marry until a certain age way beyond these years without the consent of parents in most societies. God made it possible and easy, but I don’t blame him.

 

[choy]

So you would make the argument that the baby herself is a… what… punishment? Let me ask you something then, take the fact that the girl is pregnant out of it for a moment. Focus instead on the actual sin (which as others have pointed out is not the actual pregnancy). A young woman and a young man are caught having sex behind the bleachers. Are you still as… what’s the word? conservative?.. no, that’s not it. AH, liberal with your views on mercy? If so, how do you justify the consequences then? You don’t want them expelled, there may not even be a baby to label as a “consequence.” If you do in fact change your position and agree that the school has the right to expel the students, how do you justify this. The only difference between the two situations is a pregnancy. We’ve already agreed (at least I have) that being pregnant isn’t the sin, but rather the sin is sex outside of marriage. If the young women in these two differing scenarios are guilty of the same sin (the pre-martial sex) then shouldn’t their consequence be the same?

If this post is difficult to understand, I apologize. It’s 2:57am and I’m having trouble keeping my eyes open. Night all.:hypno:

wow, what a way to twist words
i said consequence, not punishment. look it up in the english language dictionary, they’re two completely different things. way to change what i’m saying for the sake of winning an argument

then you’re quick to conclude that i am a liberal.

i don’t know what to say, i’m tempted to say something but i don’t want to follow your example. i believe its wrong to be so judgemental

but to answer the topic at hand, no i would not expel those two “lovers”. i’ll send them to counseling, spend extra time at school, spend extra time in Chruch

look at it in another way. if a student is not making the grade, do you fail them in class outright and make them repeat the grade or do send them to tutoring? which has a better result? it was already obvious they weren’t learning in the current system. making them repeat won’t guarantee they learn any more. but if you send them to tutoring then someone can watch over them closely and make sure they learn. in fact you can even tailor the tutoring to the learning capacity of the child.

same with morality. you kick them out and what does that tell them? it only tells them they’re wrong. does it make them better people? it can only if the person is mature enough to learn from mistakes. but are you willing to bet on teens being mature enough? if there were mature enough, they wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place

 

[choy]

Tietjen,

I am glad you are participating in the thread here. I agree with your views. I share the same view with you regarding this topic.

Tietjen, you have said already what has to be said. I believe you have done your part but sadly many had a hard time agreeing with you. I can not help but ask you, Are you a Filipino Tietjen? Of course I know you are not by reading you profile, but reading your posts reveals you shared the same values of a true Filipino.

I am ashamed of a Filipino here who tried to win an argument against you…because I am a Filipino and I know the Filipino values.

sorry but as a Filipino i do not agree with you. Filipinos are compassionate and forgiving to a fault. oftentimes Filipinos are too forgiving.

 

[choy]

Yes, wasn’t that where God expelled all the students in the world (accept one family) from life?

First, why are you “supposing” anything? If you want to know my opinion on spanking simply ask me. I believe that spanking (not to be confused with beating) IS indeed a legitimate form of punishment that parents may decide to use or may decide not to use. As for spanking children “silly,” that is simply untrue. I never encourage silly behavior.

wouldn’t you rather have a child do the right thing because he/she knows its the right thing and not because they are afraid

spanking doesn’t teach children right from wrong, it only teaches them that they shouldn’t get caught.

That’s because I ask myself,”is the action considered Grave Matter or isn’t it?” In other words, might a soul’s chance at Heaven hang in the balance? I believe that it is a rather serious matter.

i never said it was not a serious matter. but does expelling gain them acceptance in heaven? i don’t see how expulsion would teach them the right path

you’re right, a soul’s chance at heaven is in the balance. and that is why keeping them in a Catholic institution that teaches Catholic values is even more important. will expulsion get them to heaven? obviously they need to be better taught the correct values. would they get this from a secular school instead?

I do believe that you are again assuming too much. I also know with great certainty that in an earlier post I specifically stated that I could support a Catholic school’s decision up to and including expulsion. I NEVER stated that the school should be required to either expel the child or take no action at all.

that has been your tone. because you won’t accept anything else but expulsion.

So do I. The difference is you support taking that opportunity and turning it into an act of debatable compassion. I am all about taking that opportunity and using it to teach her and the students that attend the Catholic school that there are consequences for bad behavior; which I assert is actually more compassionate than your idea of not holding the young woman accountable. I would be doing so in the hope that perhaps the situation would not repeat itself, either with the young woman or with other teens (male and female) who attend school there.

i never said that the young woman won’t be held accountable. but she’s already bringing another life into this world, how much more accountable can you get that that? thats a huge responsibility. don’t you think it would pain that teen to see her friends get on with their sports activities, their shopping sprees, their movie nights, while she has to stay home and take care of her child? thats gut wrenching for a teen. there are a lot of consequences they will face in this experience even without the expulsion

Rosy… yes, let’s see. I grew up on the streets of Miami, was a gang member, the police knew me by sight, and in the end and by the grace of God, I left there 3 days after I turned 18, only to have returned for 1 wedding and 1 funeral in the last 26 years. I turned my life around, became “respectable,” got married, had a family, raised three children who are now all in college, and I thank God for delivering me out of my “rosy teen years” quite often. Now, are there anymore assumptions you’d like to make concerning my past or even my present?

not as many as you made on me

being in a gang at age 18, what have you observed? do putting kids in jail make them better? or does rehab make them better? do every kid that get out of jail say, “hey, jail made me realize i should stop doing drugs or stop picking pockets or shoplifting or whatever”.

Please… my father was 6’4" and just over 200lbs. From the age of 9, I can recall being disciplined by him using a closed fist. But this isn’t really about me is it? This thread is about… oh, what am I saying, you of all people should know what this thread is about… you started it.

again another accusation on me?

And my background and experience leads me to believe that strong consequences often do help to teach potiential violators of morality. I left my teenage past behind for that very reason. I got tired of the consequences for my actions. I knew that it was only a matter of time before I would have to pay a huge consequence, one that I was unwilling to face. Thus, my behavior changed and I left that life behind for good.

good for you. but again, how many of the kids in your situation ended up better? as opposed to how many ended up back in jail or back in the street or worse, dead?

I praise and thank God for the blessing I received as a teen all the time. Because of who I was as a teen, I could very quickly recognize signs of trouble and knew exactly how to stop it in my children’s lives (they had consequences). As a result, two out of three of my kids are on full academic scholarships (Go Vanderbilt!!!) and one is in college while at the same time holding down a fulltime job. BECAUSE of the consequences (expulsion is next to nothing) that I faced as a teen, my life was turned around and that inturn gave me the knowledge needed in life to ensure that my kids never became the type of teenager that I was. So, I find it very interesting that two people who both were raised outside of “rosy” childhoods can come away having completely opposit views on accountability when it comes to teens and morality.

Praise and Thank God!

i’m not saying expulsion has a zero change of reforming a child. but odds are against it. its like saying, hey, Bill Gates dropped out of college and became a billionaire. we don’t need college we can be a billionaire. okay, how many college dropouts ended up selling MicroSoft software in Best Buy instead of owning a company like MicroSoft?

 

[Tietjen]

wow, what a way to twist words
i said consequence, not punishment. look it up in the english language dictionary, they’re two completely different things. way to change what i’m saying for the sake of winning an argument

Fine, but then you stop using the word consequence when referring to expulsion. That’s what we’re talking about here after all.

then you’re quick to conclude that i am a liberal.

You are a liberal. That’s not a bad word… look it up in the dictionary.

but to answer the topic at hand, no i would not expel those two “lovers”. i’ll send them to counseling, spend extra time at school, spend extra time in Chruch

Of course you wouldn’t expel the two high school teens found to be engaging in sex behind the school bleachers. How surprising. Counseling… now there’s something that will work.

look at it in another way. if a student is not making the grade, do you fail them in class outright and make them repeat the grade or do send them to tutoring?

The student always has the option to stay after school and ask for extra help on his/her own. IF the student doesn’t want to do that and ends up failing the class, just watch how quickly I hold him/her back to repeat it again! If the parents want to hire a private tutor, then by all means they should do so. But, unlike you, I think the kid needs to be held accountable for learning the subject being taught.

which has a better result? it was already obvious they weren’t learning in the current system. making them repeat won’t guarantee they learn any more. but if you send them to tutoring then someone can watch over them closely and make sure they learn. in fact you can even tailor the tutoring to the learning capacity of the child.

Sure, then make sure that the student knows that if he/she needs additional help the teacher is available on Tuesdays and Thursdays. If the kid shows up great. If the kid doesn’t show and fail, “see ya again next year.”

same with morality. you kick them out and what does that tell them? it only tells them they’re wrong. does it make them better people? it can only if the person is mature enough to learn from mistakes. but are you willing to bet on teens being mature enough? if there were mature enough, they wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place

I’m done responding to you Choy. You just cannot seem to grasp the fact that teens MUST be held accountable or they will not learn accountability. You are one of those who will make an excuse for any/everything and then wonder why a kid turns out unable to be a productive and responsible citizen. I feel sorry for you and I sincerely hope that you learn the difference between reality and fantasy soon. Take care and God bless.

 

[Tietjen]

Tietjen,

I am glad you are participating in the thread here. I agree with your views. I share the same view with you regarding this topic.

Tietjen, you have said already what has to be said. I believe you have done your part but sadly many had a hard time agreeing with you. I can not help but ask you, Are you a Filipino Tietjen? Of course I know you are not by reading you profile, but reading your posts reveals you shared the same values of a true Filipino.

I am ashamed of a Filipino here who tried to win an argument against you…because I am a Filipino and I know the Filipino values.

No I’m not a Filipino, but I am a firm believer that common sense along with a sense of morality and ethics can be shared by people regardless of where they are from and I know and understand that not all Filipinos are like the one you are speaking of. I am sure too that the particular person you speak of truly has good intentions at heart, but just doesn’t understand the concept of responsibility and how it must be taught.

 

[Tietjen]

Please don’t go to extremes. I never said that we cannot have a judicial system, but now you are saying that any one having sex outside of marraige needs to be punished.

No, I am saying what I have been saying for the last 20 posts or so… please hear me this time. The Catholic school has the right to take action up to and including expulsion for violations of morality. That’s one of the reasons why parents want their children to attend Catholic schools; so that their children will not be AS exposed to immoral behavior. I think that it is very unchristian of those people who would criticize the Catholic school and attempt to deny them (a PRIVATELY run institution) this right. As to your lie that I have said, “any one having sex outside of marriage needs to be punished” I challenge you to quote that from any of my posts. If you cannot do so, you are a blatant liar and I will not waste my time responding to you further. I’ll be waiting.

 

[Tietjen]

wouldn’t you rather have a child do the right thing because he/she knows its the right thing and not because they are afraid

How does a child KNOW it’s the right thing if he has never been TAUGHT it’s the right thing. How do you teach right from wrong? You start when they are very young and you shower them with praise for the GOOD decisions they make and you punish for the BAD decisions they make. In the world you are attempting to create, you are tying one hand behind your back (the discipline hand). It won’t work.

spanking doesn’t teach children right from wrong, it only teaches them that they shouldn’t get caught.

That’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, it is outside the realm of this thread so if you want to discuss the flaws of your opinion, I will be happy to do so once you create the thread for it.

i never said it was not a serious matter. but does expelling gain them acceptance in heaven?

Does hugging them, patting them on the head, and sending them back to class get them to Heaven?

i don’t see how expulsion would teach them the right path

That’s because you don’t want to see. If you actually “saw,” you would have to change your philosphy on life. It’s really not hard to understand… If you do bad, something unpleasant will happen. If you do good, something nice will happen. The problem is, that some in our society think “nice things” should happen even for bad actions. This confuses people who are trying to learn right from wrong. I believe that your intentions are good Choy. You want the world to be like a Disney movie with little cartoon birdies flying up and landing on your shoulder and deer coming over to nuzzle your arm. Well, teaching a child this kind of fantasy living will handicap him/her when they get out into the real world.

you’re right, a soul’s chance at heaven is in the balance. and that is why keeping them in a Catholic institution that teaches Catholic values is even more important. will expulsion get them to heaven? obviously they need to be better taught the correct values. would they get this from a secular school instead?

Are you suggesting that people who went to secular schools aren’t taught correct values? The girl can most definately get a decent education at a public school.

that has been your tone. because you won’t accept anything else but expulsion.

No Choy… you are mistaken or lying yet again. I have repeatedly said the a Catholic school has the right to discipline up to and including expulsion. I have never said that the only option is expulsion. When you started this thread you asked whether it is right(or within the rights) of a Catholic school to expel an unwed mother. I have answered that REPEATEDLY but because you do not like the answer I gave, you continue to refuse to accept it. In fact, you go and lie about what it is I have actually said and to be honest, I am finding responding to your posts tiring. Next time, when you ask a question, email me the answer you want me to reply with, because it’s obvious that you weren’t looking for people’s opinions on the issue, you just wanted to be made to feel good about your opinion on the subject.

i never said that the young woman won’t be held accountable. but she’s already bringing another life into this world, how much more accountable can you get that that? thats a huge responsibility.

That means NOTHING. Having a baby does not in ANY way mean that you are going to be responsible or accountable. I know many mothers and many fathers who are neither.

don’t you think it would pain that teen to see her friends get on with their sports activities, their shopping sprees, their movie nights, while she has to stay home and take care of her child? thats gut wrenching for a teen. there are a lot of consequences they will face in this experience even without the expulsion

Here’s the reality of the situation…
Teen: “Hey mom, I’m going to the movies with Tammy.”
Mom: “What about the baby?”
Teen: “Oh can you please watch her just for a couple of hours?”
Mom: “Okay, honey I wouldn’t want you to have to face any consequences for your bad decisions while you’re still only a teen. Those can come later in life. Go enjoy your movie and say Hi to Tammy for me.”
< 6 hrs later >
Teen: “Hi mom, I’m back.”
Mom: “Hi honey, why are you back so late?”
Teen: “Well, the theater is at the mall and after the movie Tammy wanted to go purse shopping. She was my ride so, I had no choice. Sorry mommy.”
Mom: “Oh silly girl, give me a hug. You know that you never have to be sorry for anything. Now go play your Play Station, dinner will be ready shortly.”

being in a gang at age 18, what have you observed? do putting kids in jail make them better? or does rehab make them better? do every kid that get out of jail say, “hey, jail made me realize i should stop doing drugs or stop picking pockets or shoplifting or whatever”.

For some it did. For others it was seeing a friend shot down in the street. But you want to know what I NEVER saw? I never saw anyone leave without consequences playing a large role. I thank God for the HARSH consequences that I faced. Without them, I may not have made it out.

again another accusation on me?

Are you actually going to deny that you started this thread now?! Come on Choy, all anyone has to do is scroll to the top message and they can see you are the author of the thread. It’s not an accusation… it’s called a FACT.

good for you. but again, how many of the kids in your situation ended up better? as opposed to how many ended up back in jail or back in the street or worse, dead?

There is no doubt that some kids will never make it. Others will make it but only after a long uphill battle. BUT NONE would have made it without facing HARSH consequences and coming to the conclusion that it just wasn’t worth it anymore. Let me ask you Choy, what do you think will turn around gang members? Should we send them all to Catholic school? Should they are get a hug? What’s the answer Choy?

 

[mclr_1397]

I don’t really think thety should have the kind of authority. The mother knows and understands her sins and most likely repented…who are they to condemn her or her child?

I’m sorry, but that really burns me up! I undestand them wanting their “people” to live moral lives…I REALLY do…but you know…you cannot change the mistakes and/or sins of the past.

Blessings

 

[FAB]

No, I am saying what I have been saying for the last 20 posts or so… please hear me this time. The Catholic school has the right to take action up to and including expulsion for violations of morality. That’s one of the reasons why parents want their children to attend Catholic schools; so that their children will not be AS exposed to immoral behavior. I think that it is very unchristian of those people who would criticize the Catholic school and attempt to deny them (a PRIVATELY run institution) this right. As to your lie that I have said, “any one having sex outside of marriage needs to be punished” I challenge you to quote that from any of my posts. If you cannot do so, you are a blatant liar and I will not waste my time responding to you further. I’ll be waiting.

I’m not certain that as a Catholic School that it has that right.
My reasoning is that if the School is teaching the message of Jesus, and is teaching the mercy of God, then how can it turn it’s back on this girl.
If parents are sending thier children so that they are not exposed to what they think are the wrong influences, then they are sending them there for the wrong puposes. In that case take the title Catholic out of the title and make it a true private school, then yes they can do waht they want because they would answer to no higher authoity than there very own.
As far as the 'lie" from your post in general that is the message I found. You said some thing alon the lines that these young people need to pay the consequenses for thier actions and even gave an example of a boy car and mail box which sounded like punishment.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Lujack]

You are proving my point. The school is NOT the church. Shall the teachers take turns babysitting while the girl is in class? What do you suggest that the school should do to help the mother beyond doing what it is supposed to do… provide an education. The girl can seek help from the Church, family, friends, Catholic Charities, the state, etc.

Why should the school refuse to provide help? For the school to provide a place where all students can get an education, it has be a true community, and trust is an essential part of that equation. If it is an easy decision for the school to kick anyone out, if there is no sadness in the hearts of the administrators at any expulsion, for any reason, then something is wrong. The school should want to rush to the student’s aid at this time in her life.

But many do supply day care for students with babies and the Church is STILL there as is her many social services to assist the young woman and her child.

Why can’t she go to school? She’s going to need an education now that she’s a single mother; she’ll have it harder than most, so arguably she needs it more.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

The tax collector is an analogy to Christ eating with sinners and tax collectors. Sure, I’m allowed to snub those who I think are beneath me, but that doesn’t make it less wrong.

NO… IT’S A HIGH SCHOOL FOR STUDENTS TRYING TO GET AN EDUCATION! Let the Church be your hospital.

Perhaps it will be a wonderful opportunity for them to learn exactly what the Church does when one of its members has trouble: everything is a lesson. The lesson of an expulsion is that if you fall short, you get the boot. The lesson of her remaining in the school, raising the child, and getting support from the Church is that when someone falls short, it becomes incumbent upon the others to rally to their aid.

 

[FAB]

Why should the school refuse to provide help? For the school to provide a place where all students can get an education, it has be a true community, and trust is an essential part of that equation. If it is an easy decision for the school to kick anyone out, if there is no sadness in the hearts of the administrators at any expulsion, for any reason, then something is wrong. The school should want to rush to the student’s aid at this time in her life.

Why can’t she go to school? She’s going to need an education now that she’s a single mother; she’ll have it harder than most, so arguably she needs it more.

The tax collector is an analogy to Christ eating with sinners and tax collectors. Sure, I’m allowed to snub those who I think are beneath me, but that doesn’t make it less wrong.

Perhaps it will be a wonderful opportunity for them to learn exactly what the Church does when one of its members has trouble: everything is a lesson. The lesson of an expulsion is that if you fall short, you get the boot. The lesson of her remaining in the school, raising the child, and getting support from the Church is that when someone falls short, it becomes incumbent upon the others to rally to their aid.

AMEN!

 

[Lainey63]

Quite a few things come to mind in regards to this lively discussion. Catholic schools are part of the Catholic church it is hard to separate them, even though there are many Catholic schools here in the US that have lost their “Catholic identity”. I am going to try to get some cohesion of thought here…while lust is a deadly sin, abortion is a sin that cries out to heaven for vengance.

It appears from what the article stated unwed mothers in the Phillipines are or have been discriminated against in the area of employment throughout that country. Which is why that law was enacted to begin with.

But also being a female who also is an unwed mother, I remember hiding my pregnancy for as long as I possibly could…partly out of fear, partly out of shame and partly out of denial. However, I hid my pregnancy so I could not be forced to get an abortion, because the pressure is so intense. I have to wonder how many others hide their pregnancies until it can no longer be hidden. Unless the teenager has a good repoir with a teacher or a parent I would think that is when the pregnancy would be found out, or if she is having morning sickness and passing out in class and it is found out by the dr. then to be put through “due process” etc as it states in the article. I do think an expulsion would in fact scandalize many more than the fact there is an unwed pregnant teenage girl in a Catholic school. Especially as someone posted previously as to the educational system in that country and what an impact it will have on that student. The sexual morality of the world is out of control for several reasons.
I don’t believe that helping someone in a crisis situation an unplanned and unwed pregnancy is condoning the act of sex outside of marriage, apparently the Catholic Church and many, many Prolifers agree. Many teens don’t think of the consequences or they think it won’t happen to me…we were all teens and we’ve all been there…except now the stakes are a lot higher. If we can’t divert any of this (and yes as a society we are all to blame) It is our responsibility to pick up pieces and to help when one falls and many are falling.

A Catholic school is an extension, so to speak of the Catholic Church and in this case the issue of abortion cannot & should not be ignored. The message I would think the others receive from that action is just don’t get caught. Even if abortion is illegal in that country I would bet there are many ways to get one. I’ve been told that before abortion became legal here in the US many hospitals performed abortions calling them D&Cs.

That’s my :twocents: from my perspective.