Is it sinful to buy things through the mail in order to avoid sales tax?

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In the Apologist’s forum today, Michelle Arnold answered a question on the possible sinfulness of avoiding sales tax by saying: “Deliberately choosing to avoid paying legitimate expenses is a form of dishonesty and stealing, petty though the expense might be.” The question involved a food order placed as take-out (tax exempt) but intended to be eaten at the restaurant (which would have been taxed).

The law today exempts most interstate purchases from sales tax unless the business has a presence in the recipient’s state. So, I can go to the local Barnes & Noble and buy a book for full list price and pay a sales tax on it, or I can order it from Amazon for maybe 1/3 off, and pay no sales tax to boot. I would never have thought there was a moral problem with that, but now I wonder . . . .
 
You might as well throw away any coupons you have, since you’re avoiding paying money that way.

If the government wanted to tax online companies, it would tax them, or outlaw them. It’s fine to order things online to save money.
 
The same lawful representatives who enact the sales tax are the ones who enact the exemption. Either both are legitimate or neither is. Unlike the food example, you are not engaging in any fraud here.
 
Tax laws are writen the way they are because the issues have already been looked at; the tax man knows when and where you do not have to pay tax.

The issue of buying from out of state is not the same as buying a meal as “take out” and then eating it in the restaurant. The tax on that is a tax on restaurant eating; if you are eating in the restaurant as opposed to taking it out to your car, or to a park, or home, is the point. In other words, you failed to pay the legitimate tax on eating it in the restaurant, if you ordered “take out” and then sat down and ate it on premise.

It would not be immoral to order take out and eat it somewhere else; the tax man legitimized that option. He did not legitimize eating in a restaurant without paying the tax.

The tax man also legitimizes buying from out of state and not paying the tax; or more correctly, the Supreme Court legitimized it. Both businesses in the state and the tax man are well aware of interstate commerce, which this falls under, and do not tax it; it is perfectly legitimate to make the purchase. It is also perfectly moral to do so, all other things being equal; that is, it does not in and of itself have a moral issue to it.
 
I have a hard time believing that people shop on line for the SOLE purpose of avoiding sales tax. —KCT
 
KCT said:
I have a hard time believing that people shop on line for the SOLE purpose of avoiding sales tax. —KCT
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with free shipping and a 9.5% sales tax between state and local in the county near me i know many people who do, especially on purchases between $25 - $300
 
As you know otjm, we Washingtonians would never think of driving over the river to avoid sales tax. 😃
otjm said:
Tax laws are writen the way they are because the issues have already been looked at; the tax man knows when and where you do not have to pay tax.

The issue of buying from out of state is not the same as buying a meal as “take out” and then eating it in the restaurant. The tax on that is a tax on restaurant eating; if you are eating in the restaurant as opposed to taking it out to your car, or to a park, or home, is the point. In other words, you failed to pay the legitimate tax on eating it in the restaurant, if you ordered “take out” and then sat down and ate it on premise.

It would not be immoral to order take out and eat it somewhere else; the tax man legitimized that option. He did not legitimize eating in a restaurant without paying the tax.

The tax man also legitimizes buying from out of state and not paying the tax; or more correctly, the Supreme Court legitimized it. Both businesses in the state and the tax man are well aware of interstate commerce, which this falls under, and do not tax it; it is perfectly legitimate to make the purchase. It is also perfectly moral to do so, all other things being equal; that is, it does not in and of itself have a moral issue to it.
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In the Apologist’s forum today, Michelle Arnold answered a question on the possible sinfulness of avoiding sales tax by saying: “Deliberately choosing to avoid paying legitimate expenses is a form of dishonesty and stealing, petty though the expense might be.” The question involved a food order placed as take-out (tax exempt) but intended to be eaten at the restaurant (which would have been taxed).
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The law today exempts most interstate purchases from sales tax unless the business has a presence in the recipient’s state. So, I can go to the local Barnes & Noble and buy a book for full list price and pay a sales tax on it, or I can order it from Amazon for maybe 1/3 off, and pay no sales tax to boot. I would never have thought there was a moral problem with that, but now I wonder . . . .
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It’s not immoral to buy online to avoid sales tax. For that matter, it’s not immoral to order take-out to avoid sales tax, provided you then take the food out. The immorality in Michelle Arnold’s example comes from the dishonesty in avoiding a tax and then not fulfilling the parameters under which the tax doesn’t legally apply.
 
No. If you say you are ordering take out and you eat it in you are lying and you are not paying the money you are supposed to for eating in. If you order through the mail from another state to avoid tax, you are not lying about anything and you are not cheating them out of any money. If something is cheaper to buy out of state, and you don’t mind waiting on it being shipped rather than buying it in a store, then by all means buy it where it is cheaper.
 
Each state has its own rules as for charging sales tax and in some tax is already included in the price. What’s wrong with going to another state if my total cost is cheaper? That’s the way a free economy should work.

Furthermore, in Illinois at least, there is no sales tax on what is considered merchant-merchant transactions. (For example, wholesaler to wholesaler.) Is it morally wrong to become a merchant to avoid paying sales tax? I don’t think so.
 
rlg94086 said:
As you know otjm, we Washingtonians would never think of driving over the river to avoid sales tax. 😃
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Right. That’s why the I-5 and I205 bridges are so empty, and Jansen Beach is withering away. I am sure that it frustrates the daylights out of Olympia.

And how many auto ads for Vancouver Mall tell us that they will pay the sales tax for Oregonians?
 
otjm said:
Right. That’s why the I-5 and I205 bridges are so empty, and Jansen Beach is withering away. I am sure that it frustrates the daylights out of Olympia.

And how many auto ads for Vancouver Mall tell us that they will pay the sales tax for Oregonians?
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Not clear what your point is - are you saying that Oregonians who shop in Washington are getting a break over shopping in Oregon? 🤷

Business is alive and well in Vancouver, because we don’t do all of our shopping in Oregon. Some shops will even pay for our sales taxes (not just yours), if you mention that you could buy your big screen TV or major appliance in Oregon. But, it still does make sense sometimes, especially if I’m going to be in Oregon for another purpose. Your post sounds like you don’t believe Washingtonians shop in Oregon to avoid sales taxes.

Anyway, the point of the thread is asking if it is sinful for me to do so. I would say “no.” Looking for a deal is not sinful. If you find your deal in Washington, great! We welcome your business.
 
rlg94086 said:
Not clear what your point is - are you saying that Oregonians who shop in Washington are getting a break over shopping in Oregon? 🤷

Business is alive and well in Vancouver, because we don’t do all of our shopping in Oregon. Some shops will even pay for our sales taxes (not just yours), if you mention that you could buy your big screen TV or major appliance in Oregon. But, it still does make sense sometimes, especially if I’m going to be in Oregon for another purpose. Your post sounds like you don’t believe Washingtonians shop in Oregon to avoid sales taxes.

Anyway, the point of the thread is asking if it is sinful for me to do so. I would say “no.” Looking for a deal is not sinful. If you find your deal in Washington, great! We welcome your business.
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It was tongue in cheek. Sorry you didn’t get the humor.

What have we done - shot down a sales tax something like 32 times in Oregon? I don’t think that is the reason why Oregonians have voted it down, but the merchants in North Portland haven’t complained with the additional traffic.
 
otjm said:
It was tongue in cheek. Sorry you didn’t get the humor.

What have we done - shot down a sales tax something like 32 times in Oregon? I don’t think that is the reason why Oregonians have voted it down, but the merchants in North Portland haven’t complained with the additional traffic.
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Sorry. We need a tongue-in-cheek smiley…although that may be difficult to draw. 🙂

If Oregon were to put a place a sales tax, that would make them…California. 😛 Both of our states are doing it better, although they aren’t the best. My employer is in New Hampshire, where they have neither sales nor income tax. 👍
 
In Virginia, we have a “Use Tax”. It basically asks you to send in the sales tax from purchases that you didn’t pay sales tax on.

There is a $100 exemption for mail order catalog sales (🤷 ) but you supposedly have to pay the rest, like for online purchases.

But, some Internet retailers with a physical presence in VA already collect it, so it’s a big hassle.

The state wants it’s money any way it can get it.
 
I don’t get it. Food is taxable when you buy it in the restaurant, becomes tax free when you step over the threshhold of the front door? What if you eat in but request a doggy bag?

The Kansas Income Tax form has a line where you are supposed to add in your own calculated “use tax,” which is the KS sales tax on items that you bought on-line or by catalog but didn’t pay any KS tax on. Good luck with that.

Eventually, though, retailers like Amazon may be required to charge the applicable sales tax for the buyer’s place of residence.
 
JimG said:
I don’t get it. Food is taxable when you buy it in the restaurant, becomes tax free when you step over the threshhold of the front door? What if you eat in but request a doggy bag?

The Kansas Income Tax form has a line where you are supposed to add in your own calculated “use tax,” which is the KS sales tax on items that you bought on-line or by catalog but didn’t pay any KS tax on. Good luck with that.

Eventually, though, retailers like Amazon may be required to charge the applicable sales tax for the buyer’s place of residence.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens.

Right now, if you buy from a catalog or online, you will be charged sales tax if the company has a location in your state (I believe this is true nationwide). So for example, if I want to avoid paying sales tax on a dishwasher, I won’t buy from Sears online, because we have a Sears in my state.

Around here, if I get my dishwasher shipped directly from an appliance store in Oregon, they will charge me local Washington sales tax. They get around this by using a middle-man. If I (technically…the store does it for me) hire a guy to pick-up the dishwasher at the store and deliver it to me, there is no tax.

When I was in Colorado, I used a reverse tactic. Taxes vary by zip code and I was in an unincorporated zip code (~3-4%). I bought patio furniture in a store with a much higher tax (~8.5%). If I picked it up myself, I paid full tax. If I had it delivered, I paid my zip code’s tax. It was cheaper to ship it than to pick it up. 👍

So, all they would have to do is apply Colorado’s method of taxation (based on destination) on a national basis. Then, I would just have to ship things to my friends in Oregon. 😃
 
Meggie said:
with free shipping and a 9.5% sales tax between state and local in the county near me i know many people who do, especially on purchases between $25 - $300
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Then part of the reason is free shipping, not sales tax. I’d rather have something shipped than go to the store 🙂 . —KCT
 
I don’t know where you live, but I live in Mich. When we file our state tax returns there is a question which requires a specific answer as to whether you purchased anything online during the year for which you didn’t pay sales tax. You are required to declare these items. If you fail to do so, I’d say that you are indeed sinning in the lie told and in the taxes stolen. Do other states have similar declarations on their tax returns?
 
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