Is It The Bible, Or Is It The Church?

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It appears to be a question of either/or, which means one or the other for non-Catholic Christians.
Non-Catholic Christians have chosen the bible, since they rejected the church which Jesus Christ founded.

Did Jesus Christ found the bible or the church?
 
Cathdefender said:
It appears to be a question of either/or, which means one or the other for non-Catholic Christians.
Non-Catholic Christians have chosen the bible, since they rejected the church which Jesus Christ founded.

Did Jesus Christ found the bible or the church?
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No, it’s not necessary to make it an either/or proposition. Jesus did both 🙂

Catholics hold that the teaching authority of the Church is one part and pillar, alongside and no less important than Scripture, of Divine Revelation. Both pillars being interlinked and interdependent, and entirely compatible with each other as products of the one Holy Spirit.

A faith that isn’t firmly based on BOTH scripture AND church teaching authority is incomplete.
 
Cathdefender said:
It appears to be a question of either/or, which means one or the other for non-Catholic Christians.
Non-Catholic Christians have chosen the bible, since they rejected the church which Jesus Christ founded.

Did Jesus Christ found the bible or the church?
Click to expand...
It depends upon what you mean by “rejected”. As I’ve never been a Catholic, I haven’t rejected it. And I’ve never been Lutheran simple as to not be Catholic. So for me, it isn’t either/or. Sure, I believe that scripture is the foundation of our faith, but the Church is vitally important as well. Christ is the foundation of both the Bible and the Church Catholic.

Jon
 
  1. Did Jesus Christ found the Bible or the church?
    Does the bible say it was the bible? No, it says he founded his church, Matt.16:18
  2. What is the pillar and foundation of the truth?
    Does the bible say it was the bible? No, it says it is the church 1 Tim. 3:15
    This verse also tells us that the church was already in existence before 1Timothy was written.
  3. Who is the final authority?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? No, it is the church, Matt. 18:15-18
  4. Who is the teacher of all the wisdom of God?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? No,it says the church, Eph. 3:10
  5. Who is to be saved?
    Does the bible say that all who believe in Sola Scripture, (the bible only), will be saved? No, it says those who are attached to his church daily such as should be saved, Acts 2:47, King James Bible. (Note the singular, “the church”.)
  6. What are we commanded to edify?
    Does the bible say we are to edify the bible? No, it says we are to edify the church, 1 Cor. 14:12
  7. Who or what rules the church of God?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? No, the bible says it is the Bishops that the holy Spirit has appointed that rule the Church of God, Acts 20:28
 
The Church existed before the Bible. There was a number of years between the establishment of the Church (c. 30 AD) and the writing of the first book of the New Testament (either Galatians or I Thessalonians, c. 50 AD); then a few more to the first Gospel (Mark, between 65-75 AD); and then a few centuries before the final canon agreed upon. For the first few centuries of Christendom, there was no final form of Scripture – so sola Scriptura would have been pointless (except for those people who insist that Jesus walked around quoting from a KJV).

Jesus founded the Church. His Apostles wrote the Scriptures; their spiritual descendants codified the Bible and authorized it. When you look at it, the authority of Scripture derives from the authority of the Church: had there been no Church, there would be no Scripture.
 
  1. What is it that Jesus purchased with his own blood?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? No, the bible says that Jesus purchased the church of God with his own blood, Acts 20:28, King James Bible
9…For what did Christ give himself up?
Does the bible say is is the bible? No, the bible says that Christ gave himself up for the church, Ephe.5:25
  1. What is it that Jesus nourishes and treasures?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? No, it says that Jesus nourishes and cherishes his church, Ephe.5:29
  2. For what is Jesus the Savior?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? no, the bible says Jesus is the Savior of his body which is the church that he founded, Ephes. 1:22-23, 5:23
  3. What has neither spot nor wrinkle?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? No, the bible says it is the church that Jesus Christ founded, Ephes. 5:27
    The church is not holy because of us. The church is holy because of him.
13…To whom or to what is the church subject?
Does the bible say it is the bible? no, the bible says the church is subject to Christ, Ephes. 5:24
  1. What are we commanded not to offend?
    Does the bible say it is the bible? no, the bible says we are to give no offence to the church of God, 1Cor. 10:32.
    Do you give offence to the church that Jesus Christ founded?
  2. What came first, the New Testament part of the bible or the church?
    Does the bible say it was the bible?
    No, but it tells us that the church was already in existence for years before any NT books were ever written.
    How do we know this? Because it is the church which is mentioned in these books: Matt.16:18, 18:17, Acts 5:11, for one and many more times in Acts, Romans 16:23 and many more verses, 1Cor. 1:2, and many more.
 
2Corinthians 1:1
Galatians 1:13
Ephesians 1:22, and many more verses
Phillipians 3:6, 4:15
Colossians 1:18, and many more verses
1Thessalonians 1:1, 1Thessalonians is considered to be the first NT Book written in about 51 A.D.
2Thessalonians 1:1
1Timothy 3:5, 3:15, and 5:16
Titus 3:15, per added to the king James Version
Philemon 1:2
Hebrews 2:12 and 12:23
James 5:14
1Peter 5:13
3John 1:6, 1:9-10
Revelation 2:1, plus six more in the same book.

Since all of these books mention the word ‘church’, the church had to have been in existence already for years before they were written.
If that is true, then how was the teaching accomplished without a NT of Jesus Christ?
Simply by the same way that Jesus Christ taught, orally. Oral teaching is Tradition (capital T) is Apostolic oral teaching handed down to their successors and to others.
The Bible is oral Tradition written down.
There was no such thing as Sola Scripture even then.
There was not any NT Scripture for the first twenty years of the existence of the church.
 
It is simple; not even to be thought about. If I have a diary that talks about myself and my friends, the readers of my diary will be sure that there will be no better interpreter of what I wrote than those who are involved, that is my friends. If they say it about the writing, it is most probably true.

The Church – the People of God witnesses for the Scripture and the Scripture witnesses for the People of God. God is perfect and that’s how he made that relationship perfect for two millenia (or should I see three).
 
Saint Damasus I, “The decree of Damasus” 3, 382 A.D., J910u “The first See, therefore, is that of Peter the Apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it”.****
 
Tertullian, “The demurrer against the heretics”, chapter XXXII,1, “Like the church of the Romans where Clement was ordained by Peter”.
 
And after some 2000 years…

“Wherever the Catholic Church is, there is the Lord Jesus Christ.”— just me:)
 
Cathdefender said:
It appears to be a question of either/or, which means one or the other for non-Catholic Christians.
Non-Catholic Christians have chosen the bible, since they rejected the church which Jesus Christ founded.

Did Jesus Christ found the bible or the church?
Click to expand...
Many nonCatholics, myself included have rejected the Catholic Church as the church that Christ founded.
 
Hisalone said:
Has nothing to do with anything.
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Paul’s conversion
6 And he trembling and astonished, said: Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? 7 And the Lord said to him: Arise, and go into the city, and there it shall be told thee what thou must do.

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house. And laying his hands upon him, he said: Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus hath sent me, he that appeared to thee in the way as thou camest; that thou mayest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and rising up, he was baptized. 19 And when he had taken meat, he was strengthened. And he was with the disciples that were at Damascus, for some days
 
My nonDenom chuch was started by the senior pastor who had a call from Christ to start a congregation. It is one of many, many congregations when taken together orm Christs Church here on earth.
 
Hisalone said:
My nonDenom chuch was started by the senior pastor who had a call from Christ to start a congregation. It is one of many, many congregations when taken together orm Christs Church here on earth.
Click to expand...
did Ananias ordain him?
 
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