Is it the Church's fault if you aren't properly catechized?

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De_Maria

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Is it the Church’s fault if you aren’t properly catechized?

Or is it your parent’s fault?

Or do you bear any personal responsibility?
 
It might be the fault of some clergy.
Or maybe it is the fault of the parents.
Or maybe it is a personal fault.
Or it could be a mixture of all three.

It would depend entirely on the specifics of the person in question. Did they seek out catechism? Were their parents practicing Catholics? Was the clergyman or clergymen in question aware of the lack of catechesis or even aware of the person in question? Was catechism attempted but the person blew it off or didn’t pay attention?

The Church (big C) is not responsible for any single lack of catechesis because as an institution it is too big to be blamed for the faults of a few clergymen.
 
Personal responsibility, definitely since I went through RCIA, it was my responsibility to learn more than I did, because I’m an adult and that’s something I should do. And, if I’m ever blessed with children I will teach them the faith the correct way, since parents are supposed to be the primary educators of their children, since the home is the domestic church.
 
De_Maria said:
Is it the Church’s fault if you aren’t properly catechized?

Or is it your parent’s fault?

Or do you bear any personal responsibility?
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80% parent’s fault, 20% the Church’s fault. The sad thing is that there are many, many parents who sincerely believe they are fulfilling their responsibility by sending their kids to religious education, without ever realizing how abysmal and feckless the catechesis is.
 
ChunkMonk said:
The Church (big C) is not responsible for any single lack of catechesis because as an institution it is too big to be blamed for the faults of a few clergymen.
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Ridiculous. If a single worker in a single McDonald’s franchise poisoned a customer, you can make DANG sure that the mammoth corporate institution would bear the brunt of both the perceived and real responsibility and liability. Clergymen have far too much leeway to make a mess of things with no consequence. And the mess is not merely their own personal fault.
 
It’s a combination of all three. I attended Sunday School and got a very watered down education growing up. My mother did the best she could but it was still lacking. The Church is at fault as well. My town didn’t have a permanent priest so access to the Sacraments was sporadic and I was never taught how important Reconciliation really is. Because I didn’t have a well catechized upbringing I stopped practicing in college. I never renounced the faith or said it was wrong, I just didn’t follow the precepts. I came back on my own though and at that point all the responsibility was on my. I had the ways and means to catechize myself and was able to find some mentors to guide me into a deeper understanding of the faith.
 
If an adult is the one asking the question, I would encourage them not to look backward and play the blame game but rather to look forward and remedy the deficiency.

I’m sure every situation is different and there is probably plenty of blame to go around. But what good does it do to point fingers unless it is at ourselves to encourage us to act?
 
I would say it’s up to the individual to continue learning, to fill in any holes. But when early commitment to the Church is not taught and if there is a weak foundation, pehaps the person does not pursue growth. So this is a difficult, and important question, and thank you for asking. It shines a light on how important it is for parents to partner with religion teachers and educators, so the child has more commitment to the church later in life.
 
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Do we bear the responsibility for remedying the deficiency, and then work to reduce the incidence of poor catechisis for that reason? In which case, the blame game entails forgiveness.
 
HA!
Feckless Catechist here, former DRE. Left it this summer to return to Music Ministry and RCIA, and I can tell you without reservation, it’s a hand me down of poor catechesis of the parents.
People who almost never go to Mass, really don’t pay attention to the homily, and never paid the least bit of attention in their Catholic schools growing up pass this apathy to their children. Church is “something you do” and a family tradition in parts of the U.S. Couple that with people who only bring their kids to church “to get something” (like a Sacrament! insert roll eyes here) can’t really address the issues that come up with kids who suddenly announcement they are atheists.
Whoa! Biog leap? Not really. If God is never in the front of children’s minds, guess what? He ain’t such a big deal to them. THAT’S when parents drag their children by the collar to Faith Formation (we don’t call it Sunday school or CCD anymore) and expect the DRE and the catechist to “fix” them. Set them straight.
Sick of it. Sick of Pastors that think just because the children like you, that he’s done. It’s taken care of. When I left my position, they hired a wonderful woman. She was kind, vivacious, eager to work, dedicated. She quit only 4 weeks later, just before FF started. Was it because she didn’t care about the children and youth? No! She was appalled at the PILE of work they expected, and much of it had NOTHING to do with Catechesis. The other employees looked down their nose at her, expected her to do some of THEIR work, she was charged with things a custodian should do, OH, and BTW, YOU get to create the Bulletin each week. Need to work on lesson plans? Why? I’m sure there’s gobs of stuff in Clare’s computer.
Riiiiiiiight. And then there were the Hispanic parents that came in almost in tears because I knew Spanish, and they trusted me, and now there was no one to talk to them.
Then there’s the parent who wants a Sacrament although they really don’t have time for Mass or classes, or retreats…just “work with me” they say.

Yeah.
Sick of it.
It’s a thankless job for us feckless teachers.

I left. I went back to doing Music. It makes me happy, and I’m also Director of RCIA and work with people who really want to be there.

20 years of working with parents wh0o just.don’t.care. I’m done.
 
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2 & 3

The Catholic Church is perfect because it was founded by Christ. Those inside of the Church…not so much.

It’s definitely getting better the farther we are removed from the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II but what’s interesting is that as the laity become more learned in their Faith you see some become more threatened by that. Now all of a sudden we are to shut up and offer it up when we see or hear error lol.
 
Oh please. The spirit of VAT II is why we even HAVE catechesis beyond First Communion .
 
1neophyte said:
80% parent’s fault, 20% the Church’s fault. The sad thing is that there are many, many parents who sincerely believe they are fulfilling their responsibility by sending their kids to religious education, without ever realizing how abysmal and feckless the catechesis is.
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As a Catechist, I find this attitude insulting.
I spend hours each week planning lesson/activities. I get my students for 1.5 hours twice a month. I can only do so much.
Parents need to realize that they also need to reinforce what their child is being taught, and if they don’t know, then it is their responsibility to educate themselves.

In my parish, and in most parishes in my area, Faith formation is the last thing to get any money, and rarely do we ever get enough to even cover the cost of necessary materials. And parents who have no problem buying $150 hockey sticks or a $400 phone for their kiddos pitch a fit when we ask them to contribute to book/material costs.
 
Pleeeease release me let me go…that song popped into my head when I saw your comment lol.

Depends on which ‘spirit’. Anyway different experiences for different folk. I’m sure the forum doesn’t need two geezers arguing about each one’s. Why I remember when I used to walk to school…in the snow…barefoot…uphill…lol.

Like I said it’s getting better but we still hear about terrible RCIA programs where liberal ideology is taught rather than the Faith.
 
1neophyte said:
Ridiculous. If a single worker in a single McDonald’s franchise poisoned a customer, you can make DANG sure that the mammoth corporate institution would bear the brunt of both the perceived and real responsibility and liability. Clergymen have far too much leeway to make a mess of things with no consequence. And the mess is not merely their own personal fault.
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The Church is not a business. That you think in those terms is troubling.
 
I heard a troubling statistic recently that only 5% of Catholic children who do not go to Catholic school will maintain the practice of their faith into adulthood (Catholic school students fair better as for them it is around 37%). That really hits me hard knowing that, of the 200 kids in our CCD program (we still call it CCD in these parts), (statistically) only 10 will still be practicing Catholics in 15-20 years.

I know people like to bring out the felts & banners, “Jesus loves me” catechesis as the tried and true whipping boy, but the fact remains that the parents are far, far more influential than the catechists. The kids that do best in our CCD program (and the ones most likely to continue practicing the faith into adulthood) are the ones with parents who actually take their faith seriously. We have some truly great catechists in my parish, but they aren’t miracle workers. There’s only so much that can be done with an hour a week.

Sure, we can go back even further and say that the parents today also received poor catechesis and so, in many ways, they just don’t know any better. So maybe we blame their parents. Or their grandparents. Or on and on.

Regardless of whose fault it is, what we really need is for parents to be evangelized and live their lives differently because they are Catholic and they have a relationship with Jesus who they wish to intentionally follow. It’s why all the catechetical documents put adult catechesis first. Because if adults aren’t catechized, it’s very difficult to catechize their children.

Easy to say, much harder to do.
 
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De_Maria said:
Is it the Church’s fault if you aren’t properly catechized?

Or is it your parent’s fault?

Or do you bear any personal responsibility?
Click to expand...
As you can see already this question will generate endless debate, and to what end? Why do you ask whose fault it is?

Is it Paul’s fault that the Corinthians, the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Thessalonians, the Romans and others were not well catechized even after he spent YEARS with them? He had to write letters of correction on their conduct and their theology. He expresses much whoa over their hard headedness, their lack of understanding, their failures, he calls them his own. Yet he labored mightily on their behalf.

Who is “the Church”? We are. So, if it is “the Church’s fault” it is each person in the Church’s fault.

Who does the Magisterium say are the primary educators of their children in the faith? Parents.

Who are the educators of others-- adults, converts, and the general public? Each baptized person. We are called to evangelization by our baptism. We are called in mission to proclaim the good news. Not sisters, not brothers, not priests, not CCD teachers, US. Every one of us.

Whose fault is it? Look in the mirror. It is everyone’s fault. It is my fault. It is your fault. We are fallen humans. Therefore, we are not perfect.
 
1ke said:
As you can see already this question will generate endless debate, and to what end? Why do you ask whose fault it is?
Click to expand...
This whole thread was started in response to another poster in a different thread who complained about the Church’s poor catechesis. This OP became offended that anyone would “blame the Church”. If you look back, he has created several threads which restate questions from other threads so that he could rephrase the question and get people to agree with him.
 
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