Is It Time to Invade Burma? [A Just War?]

[jimcav]

Did you read Gilliam’s last post? We already have troops “gathered in large numbers in Thailand for the annual multinational military exercise known as Cobra Gold. This means that Navy warships could pass from the Gulf of Thailand through the Strait of Malacca and north up the Bay of Bengal to the Irrawaddy Delta.”

I read it, and I wholeheartedly agree with draftdog.

If you think that the Army and Marine Corp is ready for an “invasion” of the scope that it would take to land in Burma, then respectfully, you don’t know much about our military.

Draftdog is absolutely correct when he says that our troops are overstressed and overworked. Our fighting foce has shrunk measurably since Desert Storm. Nearly half of our combat strength now comes from our National Guard, which used to be a reserve force, but is now being used nearly as continually as our active duty troops. That situation cannot go on indefinetly. We already have two unresolved shooting wars going on, and any resolution in either seems to be years away at best.

To ask our armed forces to go into another war, that once again will be undeclared by Congress, would just be a huge mistake. Just look at the record of undeclared wars, or wars that were fought on UN resolutions. None were fought to a resolution, and none were succesful. All are still unresolved. Congress, and only congress should vote on the right to send our troops anywhere. Not some French minister or the UN! The declaration of war involves the whole country in the war, and it gives every citizen a stake in it, unlike the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, which are wars that unless you have a loved one involved, you have no real stake in it. That is why Congress can do nothing to help resolve this situation.

As a soldier of 23 years, I say no more war, no more foreign ventures unless our security is at stake, and Congress declares war. No more UN wars!

 

[rlg94086]

I read it, and I wholeheartedly agree with draftdog.

If you think that the Army and Marine Corp is ready for an “invasion” of the scope that it would take to land in Burma, then respectfully, you don’t know much about our military.

Draftdog is absolutely correct when he says that our troops are overstressed and overworked. Our fighting foce has shrunk measurably since Desert Storm. Nearly half of our combat strength now comes from our National Guard, which used to be a reserve force, but is now being used nearly as continually as our active duty troops. That situation cannot go on indefinetly. We already have two unresolved shooting wars going on, and any resolution in either seems to be years away at best.

To ask our armed forces to go into another war, that once again will be undeclared by Congress, would just be a huge mistake. Just look at the record of undeclared wars, or wars that were fought on UN resolutions. None were fought to a resolution, and none were succesful. All are still unresolved. Congress, and only congress should vote on the right to send our troops anywhere. Not some French minister or the UN! The declaration of war involves the whole country in the war, and it gives every citizen a stake in it, unlike the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, which are wars that unless you have a loved one involved, you have no real stake in it. That is why Congress can do nothing to help resolve this situation.

As a soldier of 23 years, I say no more war, no more foreign ventures unless our security is at stake, and Congress declares war. No more UN wars!

“Respectfully,” you didn’t read Gilliam’s post and/or the article attached, and your post is nonsense. It’s not a “war” or a full scale invasion.

Because oceans are vast and even warships travel comparatively slowly, one should not underestimate the advantage that fate has once again handed us. For example, a carrier strike group, or even a smaller Marine-dominated expeditionary strike group headed by an amphibious ship, could **get close to shore and ferry troops and supplies to the most devastated areas on land. **

The magic of this is that an enormous amount of assistance can be provided while maintaining a small footprint on shore, greatly reducing the chances of a clash with the Burmese armed forces while nevertheless dealing a hard political blow to the junta. Concomitantly, drops can be made from directly overhead by the Air Force without the need to militarily occupy any Burmese airports.

In other words, this is militarily doable. The challenge is the politics, both internationally and inside Myanmar. Because one can never assume an operation will go smoothly, it is vital that the United States carry out such a mission only as part of a coalition including France, Australia and other Western powers. Of course, the approval of the United Nations Security Council would be best, but China — the junta’s best friend — would likely veto it.

But, don’t let the facts get in your way.

 

[Swan]

Will Darfur and the Sudan be next? I hear they’re having a pretty big humanitarian crisis as well.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Will Darfur and the Sudan be next? I hear they’re having a pretty big humanitarian crisis as well.

All who wish to invade those nations are free to contact me – I will inform the lads at Fort Benning that I have a new batch of recruits headed their way.

 

[rlg94086]

All who wish to invade those nations are free to contact me – I will inform the lads at Fort Benning that I have a new batch of recruits headed their way.

I’m too old.

However, I will inform you that while you are not talking like a Protestant…that post is something I have primarily heard Liberals say to people like me who have no military experience but support the War in Iraq.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m too old.

However, I will inform you that while you are not talking like a Protestant…that post is something I have primarily heard Liberals say to people like me who have no military experience but support the War in Iraq.

The cadre at the Henry L. Benning School for Wayward Boys has struck a special deal with the Scooter Store for those who wish to invade Myanmar, but are not physically in their prime.

 

[drafdog]

With all due respect to Gilliam and Robert the Times article linked makes no mention of the current state of morale or preparedness of American troops to take on additional high stress, non-combatant projects of large scale. The US military is no longer in a position to supply adequate troop levels to current campaigns. Witness the fact that we are not sending fresh troops to trouble spots, but instead are sending men and women who have already honorably served and have yet to receive proper medical and psychological treatment for personal problems directly attributable to their military service.
I urge anyone who is interested in a forced provision of humanitarian aid to Myanmar to establish their own mercenary force, solicit funds for weapons and materiel, purchase mothballed military transport and supply ships and get themselves over there. You may be met by government troops, but you will die for the cause and be enthroned as martyrs. Oops, that last line just jumped out and I apologize for sounding like a jihadist.

Matthew

 

[saylo]

The cadre at the Henry L. Benning School for Wayward Boys has struck a special deal with the Scooter Store for those who wish to invade Myanmar, but are not physically in their prime.

Thanks…I needed that!

 

[Swan]

All who wish to invade those nations are free to contact me – I will inform the lads at Fort Benning that I have a new batch of recruits headed their way.

Thank you, Vern. I knew you would step up to the plate.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Thank you, Vern. I knew you would step up to the plate.

Wear earplugs – there may be mines.

 

[gilliam]

Eyewitness: Ship barred from Burma

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7405695.stm

 

[Dale_M]

Eyewitness: Ship barred from Burma

They just turned away a French ship, too.
Diplomatic spat as Ambassador accuses France of sending a warship

 

[gilliam]

over aid**UN sends top envoy to plead with Myanmar**

YANGON, Myanmar (AP) — A senior U.N. envoy went to Myanmar Sunday to urge its military junta to accept more international aid for cyclone survivors, as a British minister suggested the isolationist regime may be relenting.

John Holmes, the U.N. undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs, was greeted by Deputy Foreign Minister Kyaw Thu at the start of a three-day trip that will include a tour of the Irrawaddy delta, the area most severely hit by Cyclone Nargis on May 2-3.

Holmes also will meet with high government leaders, said Daniel Baker, a senior U.N. official.

…

About 78,000 people are confirmed dead and 56,000 missing in the cyclone, according to the government. Aid agencies, however, say the death toll in Myanmar, also known as Burma, could be 128,000.

 

[gilliam]

**Priorities in order, the **UN sends 200,000 condoms to Myanmar,

For anyone who’d rather fund supplies for some of those nonessentials – you know, food, water, shelter – here’s the link to Caritas, and its U.S. branch Catholic Relief Services.

hat tip

 

[urban-hermit]

I do not understand this.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

From what I understand, it’s a ‘control’ issue.

If aid just ‘came in’, why then, ANYBODY could get it.

But if the government doesn’t allow it, NOBODY gets it. The government is calling the shots. The haves remain haves, the have-nots have even less, or die. . .but the haves remain firmly in power even if it’s over rotting corpses.

Very Miltonian. . .better to ‘reign in hell than serve in heaven.’

 

[LDNCatholic]

They want to distribute the aid so that it will look like they are the only ones who care, the only ones who are willing to distribute food to the victims.

 

[gilliam]

Bangkok - Myanmar’s junta claims the relief phase of an emergency programme for Cyclone Nargis is over, causing a discrepancy in outlook on the crisis that promises to affect a donor conference this weekend, ASEAN’s secretary general said Thursday.

The junta’s outlook on the disaster promises to affect the United Nations and the Association of South-East Asian Nations (ASEAN) donor pledging conference in Yangon on Sunday, intended to raise money for the victims of Cyclone Nargis, which smashed into Myanmar’s central coast on May 2-3 leaving at estimated 133,000 dead and missing and another 2.5 million in need of food, water, shelter and medicines.

Discrepancies between the Myanmar government’s figures and appraisal of the cyclone catastrophe and those of the international aid community continue to be an issue days before the conference.

monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1406940.php/Myanmar_claims_&quotrescue_and_relief%22_phase_for_cyclone_over__Roundup_

 

[a_priori]

So the solution is?

This reminds me of a story:

During the US Civil War, General Grant had just lost a major skirmish with Gen Lee and thousands (that’s right thousands) of troops were laying injured in the no-mans land between the two forces (mainly Grant’s troops). Gen Grant and Lee discussed cease fire terms for three days. When the cease fire was finally agreed upon there were only 4 men left alive out there.

What battle was this?