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CrossBro
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Find me a quote from Pope Francis that states what I have said is knit picking or even comes near it.
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Brendan_64
Guest
A bit like cohabiting heterosexual couples, or divorced and remarried couples?
Ought we to expel those people from our Church. Ourc Church certainly doesn’t think so, just like it doesn’t state that homosexual sinners are not welcome in our Church.
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CrossBro
Guest
Maybe you know more people than I do, I am not aware of any cohabitating couples in my parish and if there were they would be shunned.
if you know any couples in your parish who are divorced and remarried without an annulment then I would recommend you let your priest know about it ASAP and if he does nothing report it to your bishop.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I don’t think sinners should be expelled from the Church at all. We are all sinners.
However, I do think that those who are not only not repentant, but are trying to get their particular sin ‘changed’ so that it isn’t sin at all, need to conform to the Church (and stop trying to make ‘sin’ into ‘good’).
If you were a member of say your local Weight Watchers group, and you attended the meetings only to complain that the goals were wrong, the format was wrong, and you virtually wanted to change the entire goal into not watching weight but to actively trying to have the members insist that being overweight or obese was the REAL way to be, and you derided those trying to maintain a true healthy weight. . do you think you would be a faithful member? Somebody who is truly helping all the other members? Somebody who even at heart is truly a member of that group at all? Do it think it fair to anybody coming into a weight watchers’ meeting to deal with one, or some, or all the other people there who are insisting that the program is totally wrong and trying to sabotage and rewrite the ‘rules’ and make others follow ‘their’ ideas and CALL those ideas “weight Watchers?”
I don’t think so. . .
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natistics
Guest
Of course we should welcome them!!
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janeway529
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In a lot of dioceses and archdioceses, you will see that there is an outreach to the LGBT community. In my own archdiocese, we’ve had an outreach ministry since 1986, and it’s helped lots of LGBT persons to become more active members of their parishes and witnesses to their faith.
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Jessie5000
Guest
None of us are blameless and none of us can read the underlying motivations in the hearts of gay persons or anyone else for that manner. Judgement of others is Christ’s role alone. I think that Pope Francis has challenged us when he said he does not judge gay people. Additionally, he recently discussed how when we are so ideological, we are not acting as Christians and are driving people from the church. I think he was trying to let us know that harping on the sin of others and harping on ideological realities demonstrates we have not been our knees in prayer for ,if we were in prayer, we would love. This is just my understanding. Finally, if God can love a sinner like me, then I should be able to love all and welcome anyone as God has welcomed me in spite of my flaws. I just figure we are to love and welcome others, leave the judgement to Jesus.
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Brendan_64
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So that’s how our Church wants us to treat sinners? Shun them? Is that how our Church teaches us to behave? I’m glad I don’t attend your church.
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Brendan_64
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shelby_sun
Guest
Well said. Those who want to focus on the sins of others simply do not want to face their own sins. we are to focus on finding God in everyone as we are all God’s children and as such He knows we are all sinners yet loves us anyway.
When people are at church, whether it be for Mass or another gathering, we are not to be judgmental, we are to come together to share are faith and enjoy one another with all are gifts and limitations. These people who judged need to step back and pray.
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CrossBro
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Hoosier_Daddy
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There is a HUGE thing you are missing. Our Church is inclusive to all sinners. Yes. All repentant sinners and all sinners that mend their ways. This is why, a mastubator, adulterer, etc. Must go to confession and repent and not sin again, or they are outside of grace and outside of communion and therefore outside of the Church. What people do not understand about the homosexuality issue is that what we as Christians are being asked to do by the liberal types is to go against our faith. You see, I have no idea if the man sitting ahead of me is a masturbator, an adulterer, or a bank robber. I have no idea if he is gay, and just got out of some sort of orgie. I am to charitably assume that those around me, those in line for communion, are in a state of grace.
Oddly there are no threads asking why adulterers are not more welcome. Or why masturbators are not made to feel like they belong. Why do you think that is?
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CrossBro
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You are confusing judging with discernment. It is not judging when the Bible itself tells us it is a sin. How else could we follow Jesus’s own teaching on how to confront the sinner or St Paul who tells us not to associate with the sexually immoral ?
We are taught in scripture how to confront the sinner and then bring the unrepentant sinner before the Church.
Many people who think that Church is where we are to hug everyone and turn a blind eye forget that while Jesus did not make his own cross, he did make his own whip and he used it.
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sirach2v4
Guest
homosexuality is a disorder
Christ is the cure
To embrace Christ is to embrace the cure
Pray that all same-sex attracted people find the cure, in Christ.
Christ is the cure
To embrace Christ is to embrace the cure
Pray that all same-sex attracted people find the cure, in Christ.
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Brendan_64
Guest
It doesn’t however tell us to shun the sinner.
Shun and admonish are two very different things.To admonish is to reprimand, to shun is to ignore or reject. To shun a sinner is not a work of mercy. Our Church does not teach us to shun sinners.
A mother reprimands her children for offending, she does not reject them.
I’m glad I don’t attend your church, if the community there shuns sinners.
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mikekle
Guest
Do you think homosexuals are born this way, or it is something learned at some point in life?
I dont know any gay men, but do know a couple gay females, and whats interesting, they started recognizing their homosexuality around the age of 16-17 yrs old, and one I knew grew out of it and is now married to a man and has 3 kids, she says she regrets ever having homosexual feelings and committing those acts.
This makes me think that all homosexuals CAN be shown the right path, but many do not want to see it, they would rather stay on the path that makes them happy.
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Brendan_64
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How is that the case? The Catechism is pretty clear on that (CCC 2357) but it is also clear (CCC 2358) that we must accept homosexuals into our Church with respect, compassion and sensitivity.
Secular society can say what they think we ought to do, but that is not relevant. What we are called to do is what is written in our Catechism. Selectively ignoring parts of the Catechism because we view the as too liberal is just as bad as ignoring parts of the Catechism because we view them as not being liberal enough.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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I am not talking about selectively ignoring parts of the catechism.
I am talking about your statement that we are a church of masturbators adulterers and sinners.
There is a difference and I pointed it out. Did you miss it?
The entire premise of these threads is silly. I have no idea what sins the person sitting next to me at Mass has committed. All are welcome. All MUST repent.
Homosexuality is unique because many in the community are loud and proud about it.
There is no reason I would know not to welcome someone because of homosexuality. The premise is that somehow our Church is not welcoming to a specific group of people. That is bunk. No mass I have ever been to has even brought the subject up other than some vague prayer of the faithful about the sanctity of marriage.
The reason is that it is the homosexuals that make this an issue. There are no adulterer parades, no fornication pride events. No whining that masturbators are not made to feel welcome and cannot marry their hands.
I learned long ago to not guess at someone’s sexuality. Nor do I sit in judgement in the pews and assume the worst about the person receiving our Lord ahead of me.
All these threads about homosexuals seem to have common grounds. A driveby post by a person with an agenda, leaving us to fight it out. All the while ignoring the main issue. Homosexuals are just as welcome as anyone else in the Church. To say differently is to buy into the idea that we MUST accept that it is holy for a man and a man to have sexual relations. Because that is the endgame of the people who push this agenda.
“Gee, the Church won’t marry me and my boyfreind” Why so judgemental and unwelcoming.
Fact is that I don’t know about peoples sex lives unless they choose to advertise it.
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Brendan_64
Guest
No, there isn’t a difference. How is an unrepentent homosexual any different from an unrepentent fornicator, or a person who lies and cheats regularly during the course of his working life, only to turn up on Sunday for Mass? Not all homosexuals parade it around. Not all are unrepentant.
Homosexuals are just sinners, like the rest of us. Nothing more, nothing less. The Church exists for sinners, all are welcome.
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estesbob
Guest
And of course the church does accept homosexuals with compassion, respect, and sensitivit.And BTW The catechism is neither libereal or conservative.It of the Truth
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