J
jurekjurek
Guest
NO never homosexuality is a mortalsin those people are destroying the human race if eveyone was gay there wouldent be more kids
- Status
U
uther
Guest
There are lots of ways to be popular. There are lots of ways to fill the Church. If truth doesn’t matter the list is endless.
However, if we realize what the Church is, and her mission, there is one sure way. Let the Holy Spirit fill the Church.
Somebody needs to preach the gospel of repentance and forgiveness. Part of that is preaching what sin is, and the consequences, the way that Jesus himself did. Hopefully it will be the bishops, priests, and deacons who will do it. If they don’t, someone else will.
We need to pray for the conversion of hearts of Catholics, including the clergy, especially the clergy. We need to pray without ceasing for the salvation of souls, including our own.
The Holy Spirit will then fill the Church.
T
The_Walrus_1
Guest
LMAO
E
esieffe
Guest
I apologize if plucking out that one quote seems harsh. I am not sure how to state this, but I have always thought that being non-judgemental was a virtue. Mathew-7.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Of course we are to judge! How else could be discern the Truth? What is it that we should not judge? Sin, evil? Even other people we judge all the time. I judged my wife worthy to marry.
We should not judge a measure we do not wish to be judged ourselves. I am quite sure we are to judge. Please tell me how a Christian could live a life without judgement?
Did you read what you cited?
Do you interpret this to mean that we should never help our bother with his eye?
No, what it means is I should not condemn when I might be a hypocrite. So to the topic of gays, It would be wrong of me to tell a known practicing homosexual they should not receive the Eucharist if I was visiting prostitutes. If I take care of my own eye then I can help.
But you were right to cite Mt 7 just read a little further to Vs 6.
Which probably more applies to the discussion than the tired old “don’t judge” mantra. But it goes against what you are trying to say.
Do you have a theological response?
E
esieffe
Guest
Let me state for the record that I am not about changing church views on anything, especially anything involving mortal sin. But really, “the tired old ‘don’t judge’ mantra?”
That sounds a wee bit bitter. The Pope has said this, “Who am I to judge?”
You are absolutely correct when you suggest we have to be careful with whom we have relationships, hire, or become friends with. Perhaps our disagreement is over syntax. Too often we claim to know what people are or what people think on very scant evidence. Innocent people have been executed on hearsay.
My point all along is that we should treat all who come into the church with kindness and respect, unless their actions while at Church are disruptive. There is no such thing as the Eucharist police, [well, except for the Clergy and then for good reason] I may be wrong, but I don’t think Jesus would be quite as uptight as we are about who can come to his table.
Are my views really that far off and liberal? I don’t pick and choose sins, or rate their severity. We minister to all in the hope they find their way to God, and to follow the example of Christ. The Pope wants us to focus less on the rules and more on the message. Peace H Daddy!
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
My problem with what I think you are saying is context. You originally questioned if we should :sin no more" I biblically and logically backed it up. You then went into “judgemental” accusations and threw a Bible verse out then quoted the Pope. My problem with all of this is that every single time when you are shown that your point is in context you move on to something else. I have no idea if your views are liberal but I would hardly describe them as conservative. As a Catholic you would have every right to have the views you have. But you have not backed them up. A Catholic can be a creationist too but they can’t back it up.
My advice to you. (and believe me it isn’t really important that you listen to my advice
)is this.
Read deeper into the theological and spiritual message. When you cite biblical references, actually cite them. Then read into the verses preceding and following them. The same with the Pope. Listen to what he says IN context. Apply the 2000 years of knowledge of the human condition that the Church has. And apply it fairly and uniformly.
Mostly you and I are in agreement on some things but it is dangerous ground when we start with the “judge not” rhetoric. It is probably why we are losing the cultural battles in the world. We have become to scared to say sodomy is wrong.
I have two problems with this.
- Please point out where people are not treating people in the Church with kindness and respect. You are insinuating that somewhere gays are being treated horribly within the Church. I have never seen nor heard of this.
- As a Catholic my faith does not stop at the Church doors. People’s actions if disruptive OUTSIDE of Church are just as correctable.
C
Corki
Guest
The actual virtue is Prudence. It’s one of the four Cardinal Virtues. The corresponding Gift of the Holy Spirit is Right Judgement. It is the gift to recognize and discern good and evil.
There is no virtue in Catholic teaching call “being non-judgmental”.
E
esieffe
Guest
R
Reperio
Guest
Oh this is fantastic! Sums it up nicely doesnt it…
E
epan
Guest
no, wait a minute. the Church does back down when cornered. for example, money lending. rubber stamp annulments (compared to earlier times). burning of heretics. putting jews into ghettos and requiring them to be identified if allowed to leave the ghetto. a pope who liked to shop the slave markets in Rome, and who owned a slave.
times change. values change. the church changes. accept that, or live in a state of self deception.
JPII and Benedict XVI struggled a bit with this, but previous popes have not. Francis is leading the way (perhaps) to a new realization of this apparent historic truth. Rejoice in that. It may be the Holy Spirit coming to rescue the previously moribund Catholic Church. Listen to your Pope on this topic.
J
JimG
Guest
Well, I certainly plan to listen to the Pope on any topic. But the Church won’t change teaching on matters of Faith or morality. If one expects the current pope to change Church teaching on matters of sexual morality, there will be disappointment.
S
Scoochy
Guest
The Catholic Church doesn’t exclude anybody. Before joining every Catholic-candidate must take RCIA or CCD classes, & be obedient to Church teachings. If obedience can’t be maintained, then the Catholic Church isn’t the One for them. THE question here is probably mostly geared to marriage & sexuality. Same-sex marriage: NO. No marriage: no sex.
B
Buck_Crosswhite
Guest
Romans 1 18 to 32.
S
Scoochy
Guest
I don’t know about “Romans 1 18 to 32”.
What I do know is that the Catholic Church hasn’t ever been concerned about winning popularity contests, Hallelujah. The Catholic Church is not now, nor ever has been a democracy. God runs His Kingdom as a loving Autocrat; Praise be to His Holy Name.
These abnormal behaviors are always called, by God, as abominations. That’s pretty straight-forward.
Celibacy is not impossible, as St. Paul puts it; only for those who cannot maintain self-control, it is better for them to marry. Marriage defined: one woman to one man.
Not difficult to understand.
What I do know is that the Catholic Church hasn’t ever been concerned about winning popularity contests, Hallelujah. The Catholic Church is not now, nor ever has been a democracy. God runs His Kingdom as a loving Autocrat; Praise be to His Holy Name.
These abnormal behaviors are always called, by God, as abominations. That’s pretty straight-forward.
Celibacy is not impossible, as St. Paul puts it; only for those who cannot maintain self-control, it is better for them to marry. Marriage defined: one woman to one man.
Not difficult to understand.
D
DMC12
Guest
they are always welcomed, but they gotta remember that having a religion is not like having a hobby, the Church has her rules, and they got to avide to them if they want to be part of her. but they are welcomed.
A
anglo777
Guest
This is a great is a great idea if you want the Church torn to shreds. The Gay community are Marxist foot soldiers and it’s their job to wreck the Catholic Church - and they will do a first class job. We know who the Lord and Master of the Marxist is.It really depends on what you want for the Catholic Church on this topic,it’s a no brainer.
H
Holly3278
Guest
If by welcoming the gay community to ours you mean that we should condone sin then NO we absolutely should not and *must *not! The Catholic Church will never change her teachings to something contradictory to those teachings delivered to us by Christ. Its impossible. The Holy Spirit protects the Church’s Magisterium from any and all matters on faith and morals.
However, I do think we should welcome them to come into the Church, be converted, and live a chaste lifestyle if they are not already doing so. We should not judge them based on the fact that they are attracted to the same sex but we also should not, cannot, and must not condone any sin whatsoever.
However, I do think we should welcome them to come into the Church, be converted, and live a chaste lifestyle if they are not already doing so. We should not judge them based on the fact that they are attracted to the same sex but we also should not, cannot, and must not condone any sin whatsoever.
E
esieffe
Guest
They seem to prefer the Prodistant Church vs. the Catholic Church. I am sure that is true for the sane denominations rather than the primitive uneducated superstitious ones.
- Status