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Timothysis
Guest
If you, at this point in life, don’t know what a ‘fair opportunity’ is to approach something like confession then I’m afraid I can’t tell you.
You’re trying to justify your unreasonable assertion that it is better for 12 to miss if only 1 gets as much time as they want. It doesn’t work. Is patience only a virtue when used in sacramental settings???
So, another patient uses up the doctors time and you don’t make it in for your appointment and you’re fine with that. Strange…
The priest should make a reasonable effort to hear as many confessions as he can. What is so hard to understand about that?
Good grief, you sound as if you’re going over the edge. So, I’m unreasonable if I show up at the stated time for confession and yet can’t go because one person uses up all of the priest’s allotted time? You have a very, very peculiar idea of “fairness.”
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SeekerJen
Guest
In answer to your questions (which I have bolded), in a lot of cases, yes, many members and in too many cases individual parishes only pay lip service to this sacrament. It’s seen by too many as merely a hoop to jump through so the kids can make First Communion.
As for the topic: I don’t know what the answer is. More confession time would be helpful, or more priests available at a time, but for parishes with one priest or especially those without a resident pastor, that’s impossible. I know I’ve waited in line behind people who have taken upwards of 15 minutes in the confessional. If they’re in their for spiritual direction, then it would be considerate of them to make separate appointments with the priest, but I don’t know if that’s why they’re taking so long. When I was younger I went for about 8 years (from high school to Christmas Eve 5 years ago) without confession, and when I went back, it did take me a while. So perhaps the people taking long blocks of time are coming back home. I’d much rather have someone take a long time than have that person blow off the sacrament as not important.
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LilyM
Guest
Well it does seem that we have different views on ‘fair’. It’s not like YOU personally and specifically made an appointment with that priest as you would with a doctor. That being the case, neither you nor any other individual penitent has any particular ‘right’ to have their confession heard within that half-hour or hour or what have you.
If you want to be guaranteed time in the confessional on a particular day at a particular hour then make an appointment.
You know it isn’t.
If their needs are greater and more urgent than mine, of course. Or if their appointment was earlier or they were before me in the queue. Strange to think that the sickest patients shouldn’t take priority, and strange to think that those whose appointments are before mine ALSO shouldn’t be seen before me, and should get abbreviated attention for something that isn’t necessarily their fault.
I wouldn’t expect the doctor to abandon someone who was more seriously ill than myself and/or who made their appointment just like I did, but earlier, just to keep to a schedule.
By the same token I’d expect that doctor to take as much time with ME as I needed too, whether it was short or long. And I’m sure you will too, when you’re older and slower, or when you leave your confessions longer and therefore have more to confess, or when you have some real complex moral problem to bring to the confessional.
I understand perfectly well, I just don’t accept that ‘as many confessions as he can’ is the right attitude.
That’s like saying a doctor should see as many patients as they can - that attitude actually seriously compromises patient care. A doctor needs to do a GOOD job, not just a quick one. So does a priest.
A good job takes time with some people. It’s quite right and reasonable for a doctor to spend time on someone who has a serious heart condition, for example, and not to rush their consultation or treatment with such a one, even if there are other patients waiting.
And it’s quite right for priests to spend time with those who need it, even if there are other penitents waiting.
I think it IS unreasonable to expect everyone to approach confession (or a doctor’s visit) with the same attitude as yourself, and unreasonable to resent or complain about those who don’t. And I think it’s perfectly fair to allow for different people having different needs (including needing longer time) in confession - or with the doctor.
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Timothysis
Guest
This shows just how misguided you are in regards to the conversation at hand.
The second precept of the Church (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year”) requires sacramental confession. The Church offers a time and a place for anonymous confession. Not only is it a “right” according to Canon law to receive the sacraments in a reasonable manner, it is a “right” of the penitent to make use of those times set aside for anonymous confession. One person’s right to confession does not trump the others waiting in line. Making an appointment and having face to face confession is not anonymous and, thus, violates a penitent’s rights according to Canon law. If you have a problem with this then you have your problem is not with me but with Canon law.
Confessions should be heard in a timely and efficient manner. Period. It is incredible that anyone would argue with this point. If someone is guilty of mortal sin, then they have a duty and yes, even a right, to confess it. Christ established the Church as a means of distributing grace to the world. And how does the Church do this? Through the sacraments.
The Church maintains that Catholics have a right to the sacraments; why don’t you?
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LilyM
Guest
Of course you can make an appointment anonymously! Call the rectory, don’t give your name, tell the priest or whoever answers that you’d like an appointment for confession but that you’d like to remain anonymous, and then arrange a time and date to meet the priest IN the confessional. Since you haven’t divulged your identity, and don’t need to do so at any stage of the process, and the priest should already be in the confessional so he won’t see who you are, anonymity can be perfectly well preserved.
Timely and efficient clearly does not mean the same thing as first time every time for every individual penitent.
The Church has, obviously, held that it’s OK to schedule confession for half an hour or an hour a week, presumably partly because appointments are available for urgent cases. It has held that such an arrangement is fine, even if people sometimes miss out on the scheduled times as a result.
Remember, even if a priest DOES hear confessions quickly, sometimes people will miss out anyway. Clearly that the correct thing to do for those who miss out - in the short term - is come back the next week, or make an appointment, or go elsewhere. In the long term, to do what they can to increase availability of priests and confession times by discussing same with the priest or bishop.
Not to whinge about those in front of them taking too much time, especially not to people on an anonymous forum who can’t do anything about it!
The Church DOESN’T maintain that people are obliged to take less than a few minutes for a confession, or that they are obliged to avoid ‘chat’ as you call it. The Church DOESN’T maintain that the faithful can’t receive spiritual direction in the confessional, during scheduled confession times.
The Church DOESN’T maintain that priests who utilise confession by appointment are thereby in any way depriving people of their right to the sacrament.
The Church DOESN’T maintain that priests should cut people short who are taking a long time, or that people who are going to take longer than a few minutes, or who want spiritual direction, need to make an appointment outside scheduled times.
So why do you maintain all these things?
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michael_quinlan
Guest
I want to thank all those that e-mailed in. I never realized what a controversial issue this was. Apparently the element of “time” and its value or lack there of, has been on many a mind. The upshot was that my children and I kept shifting lines from one priest to another depending on its shortness. The deacons were also very encouraging that we do this. My children, though exhausted, went to Confession for Advent.
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My wife raised a very interesting question. If penitents with mortal sin on their soul aren't given the opportunity to confess their sins, how else can they be presentable to receive Communion? Is mortal sin covered in general absolution in the beginning of Mass or is this a case of spiritual emergency?
Please reply, but be kind to those that disagree. We are all Christians searching for answers.:)
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Timothysis
Guest
The Church DOESN’T maintain that priests not wear swimming trunks when celebrating Mass, but that doesn’t mean that they can, either. The Church does not dictate all of the minutia that priest deal with on a day to day basis. It is left to what was once called “common sense,” something that is sorely lacking in today’s world. If there are 15 people waiting in line for confession and only 45 minutes are scheduled, common sense should tell everyone involved to try and “hurry it up.” I can’t for the life of me understand why you would have a problem with this but I guess you do. No offense, but I hope I never get stuck behind you in the confessional line.
Good night.
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LilyM
Guest
Night
Actually the Church DOES stipulate that priests are to be vested in chasuble etc when celebrating Mass. Whether they wear swimming trunks underneath (which is the only way they COULD wear them without breaking the rubrics) is not especially an issue of concern in the scheme of things, THAT is why the Church doesn’t mention not wearing them.
Like I said, I never take more than five minutes in the confessional personally, so you’d be safe behind me. And I’m sure that where there is a lineup people DO hurry as much as they can, and the priests DO hurry them on, as much as they can, without neglecting or abusing the sacrament by leaving out mortal sins, insulting or upsetting a penitent or failing to give or seek necessary advice and so on.
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Joannm
Guest
Lots of people are putting blame on the penitent when it could be the priest that is going on and on and taking up all the time.
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LilyM
Guest
In fairness, I think people are suggesting that BOTH priests AND penitents should be more aware of time issues.
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kage_ar
Guest
I would suggest a couple of things to your wife for reading material.My wife raised a very interesting question. If penitents with mortal sin on their soul aren’t given the opportunity to confess their sins, how else can they be presentable to receive Communion? Is mortal sin covered in general absolution in the beginning of Mass or is this a case of spiritual emergency?
Please reply, but be kind to those that disagree. We are all Christians searching for answers.
The Catechism on Sin
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1846
Catechism on Reconcilliation begins here
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c2a4.htm#1422
Scott Hahn’s book “Lord, Have Mercy”.
Mortal sin must be confessed to the priest.
General absolution is only possible in emergency (something like battlefield, a plane crashing, a sinking ship would come to mind).
From the Catechism:
**1483 **In case of grave necessity recourse may be had to a communal celebration of reconciliation with general confession and general absolution. Grave necessity of this sort can arise when there is imminent danger of death without sufficient time for the priest or priests to hear each penitent’s confession. Grave necessity can also exist when, given the number of penitents, there are not enough confessors to hear individual confessions properly in a reasonable time, so that the penitents through no fault of their own would be deprived of sacramental grace or Holy Communion for a long time. In this case, for the absolution to be valid the faithful must have the intention of individually confessing their grave sins in the time required. The diocesan bishop is the judge of whether or not the conditions required for general absolution exist. A large gathering of the faithful on the occasion of major feasts or pilgrimages does not constitute a case of grave necessity.
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kage_ar
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caoindealbhan
Guest
I think its time we all went to Confession. I’m going early so I don’t get stuck behind some old biddy in search of spiritual guidance.
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RubyT
Guest
I am amazed because the last 3 times I went to confession I was the only one there. (correction there was an old biddy once but she was fast). We were outta there in 5 minutes and still made time for spiritual guidance. Sounds like you have wonderful congregations full of people wanting to do the right thing.I think its time we all went to Confession. I’m going early so I don’t get stuck behind some old biddy in search of spiritual guidance.
Now that doesn’t help with the time issue. My advice talk to your priest about this and see what he has to say. Just don’t do it during confession
Perhaps he can give the congregation a talk about not getting spiritual guidance(asking questions) during confession and instead offer appointments for questions and guidance.
Merry Christmas Everyone :christmastree1:
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I completely agree with this. I mentioned my dismay about this on another thread. The response was, ‘Well, maybe there aren’t enough priests.’
But the point is, there is ONE priest to say the Mass, isn’t there? (Yes, there is.) And actually, there is more than one priest on staff.
Anonymous confession is indeed a Catholic right. If the priests at the out-of-state parish I’m thinking of (“by appointment only”) have a valid reason for not offering routine confessional time once/week (such as, maybe they’re being asked to minister to an isolated parish on Saturday evening for the vigil Mass, & time constraints would not permit both obligations), nothing prevents them from extending their availability prior to Mass on any particular day, or announcing evening confessions once/week on a weekday. I’m aware of priest shortages is less populated areas. Even in my region there’s a “cluster parish,” which reduces sacramental availability at the individual parishes sometimes. But basic availability should be there, i.m.o.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Amen brother. And how.
I heard recently that contemplative vocations, OTOH, are way up, while active vocations continue to be down despite recent mini-surges.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I agree with this, esp. if the people are older, because most older people cannot kneel comfortably for 20 minutes, let alone 30. They will if they have to (and if they can), but that tends to be true more at Mass & formal events, not at confession.
…And here I am still trying to find a confessor that I can also get some spiritual direction from on a short-term basis.
(Sigh)
(I refrain from doing such in the confessional. The search continues… Perhaps there just aren’t enough priests anymore.)
:tissues:
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Lainey63
Guest
I thought that calling to make an appointment for people with small children!:slapfight: :juggle: I didn’ t realize it was meant for very sinful people like myself!:doh2:
I’m joking…
I’m joking…
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Sorry, you lost me. (I’m not the efficiency expert myself. I’d rather wait in line so that all penitents have sufficient time; I’ve never known a priest to leave before the last penitent did – at least if he knew they were still waiting.) But what do you mean by your question? And perhaps I miscommunicated.
This is a CATHOLIC Parish?
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