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R_H_Benson
Guest
None of those example pertain to the topic of the thread.
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R_H_Benson
Guest
A priest is the one person on earth to whom a person should feel comfortable talking about anything.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
I’m saying that asking a priest about his sexual preference or the sexual preference of his fellow priests is as ridiculous as asking the sexual preference of his parish. The question posed is from a magazine. “Is it true that a lot of Catholic priests are gay”Xanthippe_Voorhees:
None of those example pertain to the topic of the thread.
One should not be poking around in the sexuality of priests to find that answer. It is a casualty of this world that we so feel the need to know every last detail of a person’s life. It is simply not healthy or appropriate to give the merest thought to.
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Zaccheus
Guest
There may be circumstances in which that question is legitimate; but in general it strikes me as crossing the boundaries. You don’t get to ask me how many of my relatives I think might be gay. Not without a very good reason. I see no reason why you should be allowed to pester priests with that question.
In any case if you have a legitimate reason for the question there ae other, more reliable sources than your parish priest’s opinion.
I see the difference between the two questions. My statement stands.
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R_H_Benson
Guest
I don’t see how that follows. One has a right to know if the man to whom he entrusts the care of his soul is a homosexual. I agree, no one needs to know about other parishioners.
What does the source matter if the question posed is a legitimate one?
Again, given the sexual abuse crisis within the Church and the constant clerical scandals, it is absolutely the right of the parishioner to know whether or not the man to whom he entrusts his soul is a homosexual.
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Jerusha
Guest
Nor anyone else. A number of years ago, I was recently divorced, and working in education. I was happy when my annulment came through, although that might have been some fodder in the minds of non-Catholics. Later, I was pressured to declare my sexual preference. I declared myself not sexually active, and therefore it was none of their business. That sent the speculation off even further. 
Such situations amount to sexual harassment.
Such situations amount to sexual harassment.
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NiceIsAsNiceDoes
Guest
With respect, I suggest you may want to broaden the circle of secularists you know. As an agnostic, I can assure you most are people with strong, good principles. They are just different from yours.
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1neophyte
Guest
What is this “good” you speak of? How is it defined?
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Melodeonist
Guest
It’s less apparent in the real world than online. I feel the internet is the window to the heart. Many may not say what they really feel in the real world, but online they can have no fears of retribution.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I’ll also bet real money you won’t defend virgins when your secular friends (rational rat pack maybe?) make fun of them.
That would be a double standard, no?
That would be a double standard, no?
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Vadne
Guest
It is a sad commentary on the times, really, reading some of this.
Hair color and same-sex attraction are not the same thing (as one poster implied). Same-sex attraction is objectively disordered and unnatural. This is why it is problematic to ordain men with such an affliction.
The priest is married to the Church, which is the Bride of Christ. That nuptial imagery is shattered when the priest is gay.
The celibate heterosexual priest gives up what would otherwise be a GOOD thing (i.e., sex in marriage). The celibate homosexual priest gives up what is already sinful and disordered.
NOT the same thing.
Hair color and same-sex attraction are not the same thing (as one poster implied). Same-sex attraction is objectively disordered and unnatural. This is why it is problematic to ordain men with such an affliction.
The priest is married to the Church, which is the Bride of Christ. That nuptial imagery is shattered when the priest is gay.
The celibate heterosexual priest gives up what would otherwise be a GOOD thing (i.e., sex in marriage). The celibate homosexual priest gives up what is already sinful and disordered.
NOT the same thing.
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billsannie
Guest
To reply to the OP, sociologists say it’s difficult to determine how many priests are gay for many of the the reasons mentioned above. Nevertheless existing studies indicate that there is a significantly higher percentage of gay men in the priesthood than in the general population. I believe it’s pretty much considered established fact.
And it’s nothing new. Indeed, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed, the Church has been living with it for many years. As for the sacrifice, think about it. Straight or gay, a priest gives up a very great deal for God and His people.
And it’s nothing new. Indeed, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed, the Church has been living with it for many years. As for the sacrifice, think about it. Straight or gay, a priest gives up a very great deal for God and His people.
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otjm
Guest
The heck he doesn’t have a way of knowing. One has to be fairly well beyond naive to not pick up on the difference in cues heterosexuals give and those cues homosexuals give. Any individual priest may not have a clue about some of his fellow priests, but as for other fellow priests, it can be plainly clear thet there is same sex attraction.
And I say this having spoken with a number of priests whom I have known well. I can also say that as a lay person, that I can identify some of the priests who have SSA. I don’t have to ask; the tell-tales are obvious. 65 years ago my pastor had SSA, so it is not like I have not been around long enough to figure some things out without having someone else spell it out for me.
And I say this having spoken with a number of priests whom I have known well. I can also say that as a lay person, that I can identify some of the priests who have SSA. I don’t have to ask; the tell-tales are obvious. 65 years ago my pastor had SSA, so it is not like I have not been around long enough to figure some things out without having someone else spell it out for me.
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otjm
Guest
For many years? Try centuries.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
How exactly is a priest going to know the orientation of all his fellow priests, and how would it be his business to talk about if he did, unless he was a scholarly researcher who had done a scientific survey and published about it? Even then we would have the issue of some priests not wanting to say because they think it’s private, irrelevant in view of their celibacy, or wish to avoid any negative repercussions.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
How exactly did you know your pastor was gay? Did he make a pass at a man in front of you?
I personally have found that unless a person says, “I’m gay” or demonstrates romantic affection for a same sex person in front of my eyes, all bets are off.
I personally have found that unless a person says, “I’m gay” or demonstrates romantic affection for a same sex person in front of my eyes, all bets are off.
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billsannie
Guest
Even though I’m a woman I’ve also known many gay men, both priests and otherwise. Certainly many men, both gay and otherwise, do give obvious cues. But I’ve also found out, a number of times, that “cues” can be very unreliable, both ways.
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otjm
Guest
Some time after the John Jay Report was published, there were estimates floating around which ranged from 10% of priests haveing SSA to 80%. In talking recently with a priest I have known for decades about this subject, he estimated around 40%in his diocese. His follow up comment was that it was fairly obvious when there were meetings of the diocese, as people broke yup into groups.
Some priests are in the closet; some think they are in the closet; some have stuck a hand or foot out of the closet; some have stepped out - or been pulled out.
Certainly, if we were to go back 50 to 75 years or more, it could be understandable how we might find ourselves with a greater percentage than the general population. Being ordained immediately solved the problem of Aunt Tilly or some other matriarch asking “Why isn’t a nice young man like you married?”.
Add to that the fact that the Church was renowned for art, architecture, music, and (and I mean no disrespect for the Mass) “grand theater” and it should be no wonder why a young man in high school might gravitate toward the priesthood. To a young person, particularly when the whole issue of SSA was much less understood and acknowledged by so many.
And yes, Pope Benedict issued a rule that in essence siad those with SSA need not apply. When I heard that, My first question was “And who is going to enforce that?” We have had bishops, seminary rectors and others involved in the process of assessing candidates who have SSA. That is not to disparage those who are in charge of the screening process nor imply that all of them suffer SSA; but the problem is here and now and not going to disappear because a rule was promulgated.
Some priests are in the closet; some think they are in the closet; some have stuck a hand or foot out of the closet; some have stepped out - or been pulled out.
Certainly, if we were to go back 50 to 75 years or more, it could be understandable how we might find ourselves with a greater percentage than the general population. Being ordained immediately solved the problem of Aunt Tilly or some other matriarch asking “Why isn’t a nice young man like you married?”.
Add to that the fact that the Church was renowned for art, architecture, music, and (and I mean no disrespect for the Mass) “grand theater” and it should be no wonder why a young man in high school might gravitate toward the priesthood. To a young person, particularly when the whole issue of SSA was much less understood and acknowledged by so many.
And yes, Pope Benedict issued a rule that in essence siad those with SSA need not apply. When I heard that, My first question was “And who is going to enforce that?” We have had bishops, seminary rectors and others involved in the process of assessing candidates who have SSA. That is not to disparage those who are in charge of the screening process nor imply that all of them suffer SSA; but the problem is here and now and not going to disappear because a rule was promulgated.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
If we’re talking 50 to 75 years ago, aren’t most of those priests passed away by now? And would not a number of gay priests have left in the 70s when many straight priests also were leaving to pursue sexual and romantic relationships?
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otjm
Guest
I agree completely. I will openly admit I have missed cues. In addition, it has never been y driving goal to determine “who is who”. On the other hand, there are times where several people with SSA get together, and those who may not have had obvious cues will show altered demeanor.
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