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hope
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Luke Chapter 9
And it came to pass about eight days after these sayings, that he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up into the mountain to pray.
And it came to pass about eight days after these sayings, that he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up into the mountain to pray.
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JimG
Guest
When the Gregorian Calendar was put into effect, eleven days were removed at the start of it. Those alive at the time went to bed on September 2 and the next morning was September 14. So if you were trying to keep track of Saturdays or Sundays it kind of messed up the count anyway.
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Erikaspirit16
Guest
Read Corinthians. What day you worship is a ritualistic question, not an ethical question. Paul carefully explained that the Mosaic law no longer applied to gentiles as far as ritual matters, but it did still apply to ethical matters.
What day you attend church is arbitrary. If you lived in Saudi Arabia, you’d go to church on Friday to match the Muslims. The bishop in charge simply shifted the day, as he has every right to do.
What day you attend church is arbitrary. If you lived in Saudi Arabia, you’d go to church on Friday to match the Muslims. The bishop in charge simply shifted the day, as he has every right to do.
po18guy
Well-known member
Jesus taught that the twelve and their disciples would be ejected from the Synagogues - and they were. What next? Our Lord did not teach that we, His followers, are bound by the Mosaic law. As well, the Decalog does not specify a day of the week, right? Rather, Jesus (Lord of the Sabbath) taught that the Sabbath was made for man, i.e. it serves man. Man is not made for the Sabbath, i.e. a slave to it.
Saint Paul teaches that we are not to be judged according to a new moon, a festival or a Sabbath that we keep.
Saint Paul teaches that we are not to be judged according to a new moon, a festival or a Sabbath that we keep.
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blanchardman
Guest
OK lets say it could mean all or part of three 24 hour days. It doesn’t exclude the possibility it could also mean all or part of three daytime plus all or part of three nights.
There remains the two verses where the women rest on the Sabbath then buy spices and ointment then prepare the spices and ointment then rested on the Sabbath.
There remains the two verses where the women rest on the Sabbath then buy spices and ointment then prepare the spices and ointment then rested on the Sabbath.
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spina1953
Guest
The Catholic Church did not change the Sabbath day. The main reason why Christians worship on Sunday is because it was the day Christ rose from the dead and also the first day of the week meaning a new beginning. The old ways are gone the followers of Christ were no longer bond by the laws and rituals of the Jewish belief system.
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hope
Guest
I am sorry I don’t understand your post.
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PJM
Guest
What the REAL issue is concerns the critical difference between church PRACTICES = changeable, and Church DOCTRINE = unchangeable
Does NOT Jesus tell US that He is the LORD of the Sabbath [YES]
The Fathers did this to HONOR JESUS who rose from the dead [MAKING SALVATION Possible] on EASTER SUNDAY
God Bless you
Patrick
Does NOT Jesus tell US that He is the LORD of the Sabbath [YES]
The Fathers did this to HONOR JESUS who rose from the dead [MAKING SALVATION Possible] on EASTER SUNDAY
God Bless you
Patrick
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blanchardman
Guest
In Mark 16:1 the women rest on the Sabbath then buy spices.
In Luke 23:56 they prepared the spices then rested on the Sabbath.
Logic: you can’t prepare something before you duy it. Therefore there must be two Sabbaths separated by one day.
The first Sabbath is the weekly Sabbath.
The second Sabbath is the first day of the week of unleven bread.
The day in the middle is Passover.
In Luke 23:56 they prepared the spices then rested on the Sabbath.
Logic: you can’t prepare something before you duy it. Therefore there must be two Sabbaths separated by one day.
The first Sabbath is the weekly Sabbath.
The second Sabbath is the first day of the week of unleven bread.
The day in the middle is Passover.
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Spyridon
Guest
Completely erased is an incorrect description.
Fulfilled is much more accurate.
If one jot or tittle cannot fail, how would it have been erased? It wasn’t. It was fulfilled.
Fulfilled is much more accurate.
If one jot or tittle cannot fail, how would it have been erased? It wasn’t. It was fulfilled.
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Spyridon
Guest
In Jewish reckoning, any part of a day could be counted as a full day.
For example, if Sunset is 6pm Friday, and you went somewhere that took a few hours of travel and left at 4pm Thursday, in ancient Jewish thought you could say “I left my house on Thursday and got there on Friday”.
Jesus died at 3pm on Friday - he’s been dead 1 day (technically it would’ve still been Thursday when he died because Jewish days started at about 6pm)
He was in the tomb that evening - hes been dead 1 night and 1 day.
He was in the tomb Saturday morning and day - he’s now been dead 2 days and 1 night.
Saturday evening comes and now it’s Sunday. Now Jesus has been dead for 2 days and 2 nights
Saturday evening is in ancient Jewish reckoning actually Sunday night. So now Jesus has been dead 3 nights and 2 days.
Sunday morning the sun rises and now Jesus has been dead 3 nights and 3 days. Now the Son Rises after 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb, the belly of the earth.
Here’s an illustration:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Key parts to remember: the Jewish day began at Sunset, not sunrise. And any part of a day or night was considered a full day or night. So in my case of traveling Thu afternoon into Friday morning/evening, although it’s only been a few hours you could say you traveled for two days.
For example, if Sunset is 6pm Friday, and you went somewhere that took a few hours of travel and left at 4pm Thursday, in ancient Jewish thought you could say “I left my house on Thursday and got there on Friday”.
Jesus died at 3pm on Friday - he’s been dead 1 day (technically it would’ve still been Thursday when he died because Jewish days started at about 6pm)
He was in the tomb that evening - hes been dead 1 night and 1 day.
He was in the tomb Saturday morning and day - he’s now been dead 2 days and 1 night.
Saturday evening comes and now it’s Sunday. Now Jesus has been dead for 2 days and 2 nights
Saturday evening is in ancient Jewish reckoning actually Sunday night. So now Jesus has been dead 3 nights and 2 days.
Sunday morning the sun rises and now Jesus has been dead 3 nights and 3 days. Now the Son Rises after 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb, the belly of the earth.
Here’s an illustration:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Key parts to remember: the Jewish day began at Sunset, not sunrise. And any part of a day or night was considered a full day or night. So in my case of traveling Thu afternoon into Friday morning/evening, although it’s only been a few hours you could say you traveled for two days.
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blanchardman
Guest
The term “High Sabbath” establishes Sunday as the Passover.
Jesus died on Friday.
He was in the tomb all of Saturday.
Night 1 day 1
Sunday
The women but spices and ointment then prepare the spices and ointment.
Night 2 day 2
Monday
The first day of unleven bread.( annual Sabbath)
Night 3 day 3
Tuesday
Jesus rises on “the third day” (of the week).
I can not read your chart. Could you post a link? Never mind I figured it out.
Jesus died on Friday.
He was in the tomb all of Saturday.
Night 1 day 1
Sunday
The women but spices and ointment then prepare the spices and ointment.
Night 2 day 2
Monday
The first day of unleven bread.( annual Sabbath)
Night 3 day 3
Tuesday
Jesus rises on “the third day” (of the week).
I can not read your chart. Could you post a link? Never mind I figured it out.
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Titivillus
Guest
I’m sorry, this sounds even more made-up than the usual Sunday Begins at Sunset Saturday line.
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Spyridon
Guest
It’s ancient Jewish time reckoning.
You have a right to be ignorant - but don’t spurn historical fact because you don’t understand it. Instead of mocking in ignorance, why not research the way ancient Judaic peoples reckoned time?
As I write this it’s Tuesday evening about 7:20 PM - thats according to modern American time keeping. According to Jewish reckoning it’s Wednesday evening, the first watch of the night.
We’re not Protestants - we don’t say “it’s EITHER Tuesday OR Wednesday evening”, we say, as Catholics, “it is BOTH Tuesday evening 7:20pm according to modern American time AND it’s Wednesday evening, first watch of the night according to ancient Jewish time”.
Made up? Maybe if you’re ignorant of ancient Jewish timekeeping.
You have a right to be ignorant - but don’t spurn historical fact because you don’t understand it. Instead of mocking in ignorance, why not research the way ancient Judaic peoples reckoned time?
As I write this it’s Tuesday evening about 7:20 PM - thats according to modern American time keeping. According to Jewish reckoning it’s Wednesday evening, the first watch of the night.
We’re not Protestants - we don’t say “it’s EITHER Tuesday OR Wednesday evening”, we say, as Catholics, “it is BOTH Tuesday evening 7:20pm according to modern American time AND it’s Wednesday evening, first watch of the night according to ancient Jewish time”.
Made up? Maybe if you’re ignorant of ancient Jewish timekeeping.
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Titivillus
Guest
Why not educate me with more than just assertions*?
Let’s isolate the bit I find troubling:
I’m with you…
Still with you…
But now, NB, zero time has passed…
I repeat: Zero. Time. Has. Passed.
And now the very same moment of time is simultaneously reckoned as Saturday Night (one of 2 nights) and Sunday Night (one of 3 nights)!?!?
With all due respect, the ancient Judaic people I am familiar with are too smart to have reckoned time in such a stoopid manner.
(* See? I can assert things without backing them up too)
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Titivillus
Guest
And, holy cow, I hadn’t even noticed this bit:
This is not at all Catholic teaching I am familiar with.
"technically it would’ve still been Thursday" !?!?
This is not at all Catholic teaching I am familiar with.
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Spyridon
Guest
I was mistaken there, my apologies.
Trying to synchronize our modern understanding of timekeeping with ancient Jewish practices is somewhat confusing!
Let’s try this again:
Friday, aka Yom Ha Sheeshee (the 6th day), begins at Sunset on Thursday.
A modern American day, using a 12-hour clock, begins at 12:00am and ends at 11:59pm. An ancient Jewish day began roughly at 6pm (the first watch of the night) and ended at 5:59pm (the 12th hour) - Sunset to sunset.
Jesus dies at 3pm Friday - Jesus dies at about the 9th hour on Yom Ha´shee´shee, the 6th day (aka preparation day [for the Sabbath]) - so Jesus is dead 1 day. However, in Jewish reckoning, any part of a day includes the entire day. So in Jewish thought, Jesus has been dead 1 day and 1 night.
Jesus is in the tomb by Sunset Friday evening, so it’s now the Shabbat, first watch of the night - now the second night, so it’s been 2 nights. Now he’s been dead 1 day and 2 nights, or 2 days in Jewish reckoning.
The Sun rises at 6am Saturday, Jesus is dead on the Shabbat. It’s still 2 days and 2 nights at this point.
Sunsets on Holy Saturday ushering in the third day/night, aka Yom Reeshon, the first day of the week.
Now Jesus has been dead 3 nights and 2 days, or 3 days and 3 nights in Jewish reckoning.
The Sun rises early on the first day of the week. The Son rises early on the first day of the week, after 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the earth.
Here’s a better illustration than the one I posted before:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
The people who see a problem here are simply ignorant of ancient Jewish time reckoning. Do the skeptics think the Apostles were morons? Like they couldn’t count the days correctly and made a mistake about something as major as that? Or is it more likely the skeptics simply don’t understand the way the Apostles were viewing things?
I think I’ve proven beyond any doubt that it’s the case that skeptics are ignorant of the Apostles worldview - not that the Apostles were idiots who couldn’t tell time.
Trying to synchronize our modern understanding of timekeeping with ancient Jewish practices is somewhat confusing!
Let’s try this again:
Friday, aka Yom Ha Sheeshee (the 6th day), begins at Sunset on Thursday.
A modern American day, using a 12-hour clock, begins at 12:00am and ends at 11:59pm. An ancient Jewish day began roughly at 6pm (the first watch of the night) and ended at 5:59pm (the 12th hour) - Sunset to sunset.
Jesus dies at 3pm Friday - Jesus dies at about the 9th hour on Yom Ha´shee´shee, the 6th day (aka preparation day [for the Sabbath]) - so Jesus is dead 1 day. However, in Jewish reckoning, any part of a day includes the entire day. So in Jewish thought, Jesus has been dead 1 day and 1 night.
Jesus is in the tomb by Sunset Friday evening, so it’s now the Shabbat, first watch of the night - now the second night, so it’s been 2 nights. Now he’s been dead 1 day and 2 nights, or 2 days in Jewish reckoning.
The Sun rises at 6am Saturday, Jesus is dead on the Shabbat. It’s still 2 days and 2 nights at this point.
Sunsets on Holy Saturday ushering in the third day/night, aka Yom Reeshon, the first day of the week.
Now Jesus has been dead 3 nights and 2 days, or 3 days and 3 nights in Jewish reckoning.
The Sun rises early on the first day of the week. The Son rises early on the first day of the week, after 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the earth.
Here’s a better illustration than the one I posted before:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
The people who see a problem here are simply ignorant of ancient Jewish time reckoning. Do the skeptics think the Apostles were morons? Like they couldn’t count the days correctly and made a mistake about something as major as that? Or is it more likely the skeptics simply don’t understand the way the Apostles were viewing things?
I think I’ve proven beyond any doubt that it’s the case that skeptics are ignorant of the Apostles worldview - not that the Apostles were idiots who couldn’t tell time.
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Titivillus
Guest
Thanks, that is much more intelligible.
Summary
The phrase ~three days and three nights~ appears exactly once, to my knowledge, Matt 12:40. Any other reference is that Jesus rose ~on the third day~ (which IMHO is much more easily calulated)
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And if that’s the case (which I can neither affirm nor deny, mostly because it is not important to me*), you’re really over-selling it. All you need is this
- Jesus dies on a Friday (Jewish reckoning: 1 day and 1 night)
- Jesus is in the sepulcher on Saturday (Jewish reckoning: 1 day and 1 night)
- Jesus is dead, until he rises on Sunday morning (Jewish reckoning: 1 day and 1 night)
- Total (Jewish reckoning: 3 days and 3 nights. Case made)
Summary
The phrase ~three days and three nights~ appears exactly once, to my knowledge, Matt 12:40. Any other reference is that Jesus rose ~on the third day~ (which IMHO is much more easily calulated)
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blanchardman
Guest
Your chart does not show any dates. Which day is the 15th?
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