Is it unrealistic to be a housewife in 2009?

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Or because TLM is comparatively rare, the people who go out of their way to attend one are conservative Catholics who take Mass more seriously than the average person, and are more likely to instill the fear of God in their children. Perhaps they are also more likely to physically punish their children for misbehavior. Who knows.
BINGO! You’ve hit my original point exactly. “Good” parents instill into their children certain traits that “bad” parents do not. We’ve simply lowered the bar over the last 50+ years, and it’s unacceptable IMO. If those children can be brought up to behave from the time they are toddlers, why can’t other children? It’s evident that the only difference is in the parents and what the parents allow the child’s environment to be.

If you feel personally insulted by that, sorry, but that’s something personal you have to deal with. It seems the only “sin” we call each other to as Catholics nowadays is being “judgmental”. :rolleyes: But calling a spade a spade is Christian charity. Some just don’t want to see it that way. Caritas in veritate: Charity in Truth
 
BINGO! You’ve hit my original point exactly. “Good” parents instill into their children certain traits that “bad” parents do not. We’ve simply lowered the bar over the last 50+ years, and it’s unacceptable IMO. If those children can be brought up to behave from the time they are toddlers, why can’t other children? It’s evident that the only difference is in the parents and what the parents allow the child’s environment to be.
You seem to be shockingly out of touch with what goes into good parenting and don’t seem to have any knowledge of child development. God help any toddler who ever falls under you care. Good parents do not instill the the fear of God into their 1 year olds for “misbehaving” in Mass.
 
You seem to be shockingly out of touch with what goes into good parenting and don’t seem to have any knowledge of child development. God help any toddler who ever falls under you care. Good parents do not instill the the fear of God into their 1 year olds for “misbehaving” in Mass.
Again, that’s your opinion. Fear of God is a good thing, not a bad thing, and your assertion that it’s inappropriate for a young child depends on what exactly constitutes the fear of God. Arguing the point is futile. The bottom line remains the same: some kids behave, others don’t, and we can bring it back to the common denominator of the parents today versus parents of yesteryear and the “progressive” ways we parent nowadays.

I’ve babysat many different children over my lifetime, and you can always tell who the good parents are. Members of my own family are in the list of “bad”/“lax”/“irresponsible”/whatever else you want to call them parents. Our society doesn’t exactly encourage parents. It’s all about letting the child do whatever they want instead of training them up for responsiblity, but now I’m getting into it too much…

If you don’t agree, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 🤷
 
Again, that’s your opinion. Fear of God is a good thing, not a bad thing, and your assertion that it’s inappropriate for a young child depends on what exactly constitutes the fear of God. Arguing the point is futile. The bottom line remains the same: some kids behave, others don’t, and we can bring it back to the common denominator of the parents today versus parents of yesteryear and the “progressive” ways we parent nowadays. If you don’t agree, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 🤷
Hi sarahreagraham, I am wondering how many children do you have? You seem to be such an expert at child rearing that maybe you should try to teach those of us who have a child who is a little more high spirited on how to break that spirit so that others may not look at us as being a bad parents.

Any advise from such a morally upright, very strict and knowing parent as yourself would be of great help. You see all though my son is very religious and has been since a very young age, (when he was about two he use to love playing hide-n-seek with Our Lady, he would say the Lady is playing with me. A few years later when I had though I had lost him I found him the church in front of the Tabernacle talking, when I asked him what he was doing he said Jesus heart was calling his name.) But he is so fidgety, like most boys, and he just cannot seem to sit still for more than ten minutes at a time. Would you suggest that I or his father should put the fear of God in him during mass time to stop that fidgetiness. You see I keep telling myself that I know that he is very much in love with our Lord and he loves going to mass so much that I am willing to look over this small flaw. But now I am wondering what all of the “good parents” are thinking of my son.

So you see I am wondering what you do as one of the “good parents”?
 
Again, that’s your opinion. Fear of God is a good thing, not a bad thing, and your assertion that it’s inappropriate for a young child depends on what exactly constitutes the fear of God. Arguing the point is futile. The bottom line remains the same: some kids behave, others don’t, and we can bring it back to the common denominator of the parents today versus parents of yesteryear and the “progressive” ways we parent nowadays.
My observations bear this out too. Nowadays there are far too many ill-behaved children running around (in my apt. complex, at Mass, at the store, etc.) and when you watch them interacting with their parents you can see why. Generally speaking, they’re not getting the discipline or the positive example that they should be and it really shows.
Our society doesn’t exactly encourage parents. It’s all about letting the child do whatever they want instead of training them up for responsiblity, but now I’m getting into it too much…
There does seem to be much more of this attitude/parenting style around these days then even when I was a child, 20 years ago.
 
BINGO! You’ve hit my original point exactly. “Good” parents instill into their children certain traits that “bad” parents do not. We’ve simply lowered the bar over the last 50+ years, and it’s unacceptable IMO. If those children can be brought up to behave from the time they are toddlers, why can’t other children? It’s evident that the only difference is in the parents and what the parents allow the child’s environment to be.

If you feel personally insulted by that, sorry, but that’s something personal you have to deal with. It seems the only “sin” we call each other to as Catholics nowadays is being “judgmental”. :rolleyes: But calling a spade a spade is Christian charity. Some just don’t want to see it that way. Caritas in veritate: Charity in Truth
With older children you may have an argument - there is less attempt to tech appropriate public behavior, though I think this is related to larger social changes.

With young kids, under about 4, you are way off. Children of that age do not have adequate social understanding, they do not have adequate separation of self and the ability to see how they affect others, they lack focus, and their self-control is not well formed. You cannot give them these things before they are developmentally ready for them.

There were several reasons this was not as much in evidence in the past. One is that at one time, very young kids were simply not brought to Mass in many places. This is true right back through the medieval period at least. People did not expect a small child to get anything out of Mass and so they didn’t come until they could focus a little more.

The other technique that works is physical punishment or fear. Among some Protestant groups, young babies are pinched, hard, if they cry or fuss in church. Classical conditioning is something we can indeed do to babies if we feel dog-like obedience is important.

But most Catholics feel that “artificially” making a child do things in this kind of way is not appropriate - they develop physically and mentally the way God made them to, and so we should expect behavior in line with their mental capabilities and help them develop those. There are many negative consequences of the more punitive style of parenting - I think it becomes rather a matter of winning a battle to lose the war.
 
sarah, why is it that you are telling the ‘truth’ in ‘Christian charity’ and others are simply giving their “opinion”?

Don’t fool yourself. Your anecdotal samples of a few children you’ve babysat for and a few children you see at TLM do not a solid conclusion make. You have obviously already set yourself up to see what you want to see and drawn your own biased conclusions.

I don’t know what this thread had to do with TLM vs NO in the first place and don’t know why you brought it up. It surely is against Charity to pit Catholic against Catholic.

I go to OF masses 95% of the time and never see these ill behaved children you speak of, not now and not ever in my entire life of attending mass. I have seen toddlers who have trouble sitting still because they are toddlers, kids who do things they know better of when their parents eyes are turned, and I have seen moms and dad’s who are just trying to do their best to get through mass. I suspect we are actually seeing the same people, through different lenses.

Maybe you could try not to come to rash judgment about people who’s lives you only get a minute glimpse of.

There seems to be a love and almost romanticized vision of “the past” these days, especially within the Church, and I can’t quite understand it.:confused:
 
This thread is now way off track and now I’m being questioned on my personal statements and beliefs. I’m bowing out, so don’t expect any more responses from me.
 
Most men wish they could have that support. That said, it is definitely a lifestyle choice for the couple.

That said - housewife’s tend to be a lot more busy than their working peers, and a day job’s structure can be a lot less stressful.
 
BINGO! You’ve hit my original point exactly. “Good” parents instill into their children certain traits that “bad” parents do not. We’ve simply lowered the bar over the last 50+ years, and it’s unacceptable IMO. If those children can be brought up to behave from the time they are toddlers, why can’t other children? It’s evident that the only difference is in the parents and what the parents allow the child’s environment to be.

If you feel personally insulted by that, sorry, but that’s something personal you have to deal with. It seems the only “sin” we call each other to as Catholics nowadays is being “judgmental”. :rolleyes: But calling a spade a spade is Christian charity. Some just don’t want to see it that way. Caritas in veritate: Charity in Truth
Maybe the cost of making children behave that way is too high?

My guess is that making small children sit still during what to them must be incredibly boring would take some serious punishment, either hitting them physically, or depriving them of the things they value the most.

Most parents nowadays find those kinds of methods cruel and unacceptable, and to them “proper” behavior during Mass is just not worth the pain that those methods would cause their children.

But I certainly know how annoying it is to listen to someone’s child cry during Mass. There should be separate services for people with young children.
 
Maybe the cost of making children behave that way is too high?

My guess is that making small children sit still during what to them must be incredibly boring would take some serious punishment, either hitting them physically, or depriving them of the things they value the most.

Most parents nowadays find those kinds of methods cruel and unacceptable, and to them “proper” behavior during Mass is just not worth the pain that those methods would cause their children.

But I certainly know how annoying it is to listen to someone’s child cry during Mass. There should be separate services for people with young children.
Jesus asked the little children to come to Him. If as Catholics we are prolife, and profamily, we shouldn’t expect kids to be ‘‘somewhere else’’ so we can’t hear them. I understand that on occasion, a screaming baby can be distracting…but, he/she is a baby. It’s to be expected, at times. The parents might be doing the best they can. :o
 
Or because TLM is comparatively rare, the people who go out of their way to attend one are conservative Catholics who take Mass more seriously than the average person, and are more likely to instill the fear of God in their children. Perhaps they are also more likely to physically punish their children for misbehavior. Who knows.
I just want to point out that this TLM parent does not physically punish. Even though I do model proper behavior and expect it from my kids.
 
I just want to point out that this TLM parent does not physically punish. Even though I do model proper behavior and expect it from my kids.
I’m glad to hear that. You’re right, we don’t want to mischaracterize people who are traditional as necessary being very punitive or physically punishing just because they are religously conservative.
 
Let go of what other people think about how you and your husband choose to live your lives. There will always be people who disagree with whatever decision you make.

I think that you are creating stories in your head-- about how people will think you are “lazy” for staying home. **So what??? **Someone who would actually think that about you is not not your friend, nor should you allow them to actually influence your decisions.

As to women who work AND keep house-- I think you overestimate what goes on in the homes of other working women. The ones who have really clean houses hire others to clean it.
I am 100% in agreement with 1ke. And kudos to you for having such strong convictions about being a stay-at-home mom! It is so important for young ones to have a mom present at home, with them, raising them.
 
To the OP- No I don’t think it’s unrealistic at all.
I was a SAHM for 13 years and I never regreted it.
I recently took a part-time job as my husbands job was downsized.
My ds’ are teenagers now. I hope to not have to work more than part time, though.
As other posters said, it’s a decision only you and your husband can make.
I really never had anyone be too critical to my face- but I knew that’s what I wanted when my children were small. We did go without things that others had, but we always had all we needed. We still don’t have many material things compared to a lot of people, today.
But I definetly think it was worth it.
I loved being home and caring for the house, cooking from scratch, volunteering at my kid’s school, ect.

One good thing is that as a school teacher, you do have something to fall back on, should you have to- in extreme circumstances.
 
In response to the nice discussion on the behavior of children at mass:

I have noticed something very important concerning the behavior of my own six children in transitioning from protestant churches where the pews were more than half empty, to catholic churches where we all have to scrunch together because they are full. When we are all spread out, they will not sit still, and they very easily get into trouble. I did what I could to keep them still and quiet, but sometimes the only thing to do was to take them out. At mass, there are so many kids (no nursery) and just so many people, they have no where to go. Yes, they are fidgety, but it gives us a chance to snuggle up with the little ones, which get passed between me and my husband and our older children. They look around at all the other kids, babies look at each other. This keeps them busy and quiet.

My point is that maybe instead of arguing over who is a good parent or a bad parent (and I know some parents just don’t discipline their kids, but really, how much discipline can you in good conscience give to a baby? All you can do is model good behavior and try to keep them distracted) maybe we should look at the different circumstances. Babies get tired at different times of day. Kids have a lot of energy in the morning. One of the best things I’ve found is to prepare my kids, no matter if I have to repeat it every time, for what behavior I expect of them. The little ones are likely to imitate the older ones.
 
i think it’s great if you want to be a housewife. KIds or no kids. I didn’t stop going to work everyday until after I had children, but I have no intention of going back just because they are in school. I might get my masters degree, but not go back to work full time.

As far as chilren in church is concerned. I am a social worker and have a minor in child psychology. I believe that parents contribute largely to a child’s behavior. I believe that children as young as 2.5 are very capable of sitting quitely in mass if the parents were clear and consistent in teaching and demonstrating how the child is expected to behave leading up to that age. I also believe that parents expect too little out of their children in today’s society. They explain every behavior issue away by saying things like oh he’s hungry or oh he’s just tired or he’s not old enough to know better yet. There are times when this is true of course. I know that being tired or hurgy can defintely cause behavior problems. I am speaking of the times in which parents use those (or other) explainations to excuse a childs behavior when is not the case. They use these excuses right in front of the child and so the child learns that as long as he has an excuse it’s ok to behave in a negative way. It happens all the time. My children are always good in Mass. We are not running to the bathroom in the middle of Mass for unnecessary bathroom breaks. We do not bring food or drinks or toys. They know that at mass they are expected to sit, stand or kneel and be quiet unless we are singing. Even my youngest at 14 months knows to be quiet at Mass. When we walk in he says shhh. He is not perfectly still yet but we work on every week. He is quiet. It is the same thing with potty training. Parents just don’t give kids enough credit and set low expectations. I realize that there are kids out there with develomental delays or disabilites. I am not talking about those kids. I am speaking of normal functioning children.
 
As far as chilren in church is concerned. I am a social worker and have a minor in child psychology. I believe that parents contribute largely to a child’s behavior. I believe that children as young as 2.5 are very capable of sitting quitely in mass if the parents were clear and consistent in teaching and demonstrating how the child is expected to behave leading up to that age. .
Melissa, I have a Master’s degree in Psychology, 3 children, one who is grown, one with high-functioning autism (and for whom I have become highly educated in many areas because of her special needs, and I could probably get a doctorate at this point with all of the reading I’ve done). I have also volunteered in church and CCD preschool programs for years.

I can guarantee you that your opinion that the only reason why any child over the age of two and half cannot sit quitely for one hour unless that has somehow not been “demonstrated” for them or “modeled” for them how to sit quitely is not shared by anyone in the professional world. If you doubt that about 60% of toddlers and preschool children will have some difficulty sitting through Mass without work on the parents’ part, just go to the phone book, call up a specialist, and ask him or her yourself.

First, there are no adults who squirm, figet, and scream in Mass. None. There are no adults who do not model proper behavior in Mass.

Second, if you studied child development you might remember the concept of temperment. Temperment is inborn. It is a function of physiology. The activity level of each child is controlled by temperment. This is not conjecture or opinion, it is an empirically verified foundation of developmental psychology that has been studied since the late 1970s. 40% of children have easy temperments. Those children might be sitting through Mass without any problems when they’re two. 60% are not. Of the remaining 60%, another 10% couldn’t make if for 15 minutes. Those children have difficult temperments.

Third, if you studied child development you might remember the average attention span of a children who are under the age of 5. For a two year old, even if they are highly engaged, it is 30 minutes. The small children who sit quietly in Mass have the kinds of brains that are able to entertain themselves and the kinds of temperments that can tolerate one hour of sitting still.

Fourth, but this is really going into too much detail for this messageboard, children under the age of 4 learn how to pay attention and sit still in Mass by being directed, not by example, because they have not developmentally reached the age where they have a concept of the differences between public and private behavior and social modelling. Two year olds don’t even play with each other. They play side by side. I gurantee you they don’t behave one way or the other because you are sitting quietly in the pew and they’ve intellectually processed your social example. They haven’t even reached the stage where they can draw those conclusions.

In the past year I have read- over and over and over again- on the subject of young children in Mass, the boastings of parents whose children sat through Mass since toddlerhood. I have seen post after post after post explaining to these mothers that not all children are the same, and you cannot pat yourself on the back because your 1 year old has an unusually long attention span or an easy temperment. You cannot look down your nose at the 60% of mothers who don’t have this particular advantage. Without exception- no mother who posts that their child can sit through Mass because of their “superior example” ever admits that there isn’t the slightest factual basis for their belief, and that it is in fact purely luck that their child didn’t turn out with a different brain.

It would be nice if some of these parents could be objective and give up their need to use social comparisons to boast their egos in this way, but I doubt I will ever see it happen.
 
*This might not be a popular sentiment…but I honestly don’t care that much what other kids are doing during mass. :o As long as they are not pulling my hair (when they’re sitting behind me :D) or running up and down the aisles …I expect some noise, some crying, etc.

I marvel that priests can remain so unaffected by it all…never miss a beat…stay totally poised. Why do we all get so upset? 😉 If the child is my kids’ ages, there would be a problem then. My kids sometimes bother each other during mass, and they get a look (:mad: that’s the look) from me. But, they’re **my **kids. They are teens and need to be paying attention. When they were toddlers, they hadn’t a clue to what was being discussed, I didn’t expect them to sit still at 2 or 3 (this is just me) thankfully, we belonged to a parish that had a baby room…I would just sit in there. But, I know many parishes don’t have them. Do the best you can. Kids should learn how to refrain from yelling out…but under the age of 4…it can be tough.

I had a strict Italian dad growing up…who was militant in sitting still at mass. I love my dad to this day, God rest his soul, but I swore I wouldn’t put my kids through that during mass, at young ages. Just my two cents! :)*
 
The point I was trying to make was that they have to be taught. Not that they simply watch. By demonstrating I mean recognizing and acknowledging when they are doing it correctly. I actually know a lot about temperment and all 3 of mine have very different temperments. My oldest was the most difficult in many ways but she always would behave in public. I do not believe that kids learn just by watching adults if that is what is sounded like then I am sorry but that is so far from my belief system. I actually am a big believer in positive reinforcement. For my crew nothing is more effective. I am also having trouble understanding where you got that I don’t think there is work involved on the parents part. I said parents have to be consistent in teaching and demonstrating. To me that is
Work. Maybe it was because I said up to that point. I guess I should have said up to that point and beyond. As with anything else in parenting just bc a child gets something right doesn’t mean you stop enforcing the rule or whatever it is. I think you completely misunderstood me.
 
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