Is it wrong to disagree with God but still obey?

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For many places and times, that has been a good thing.

There are “matchmakers” today, if you are free to marry you could hire one. However, I’d suggest working a bit on the true nature of marriage before you tell some matchmaker “I want to have sex, so find me a woman”.

Would you want your sister or your daughter to marry someone who saw her as a simply sexual object?
 
TheLittleLady said:
Would you want your sister or your daughter to marry someone who saw her as a simply sexual object?
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Of course not. But men’s intellect and reasoning is easily clouded by a desire for sex. I think that’s why it’s easy to become someone you’re not or to relax your morals for the sake of someone you’re sexually attracted to. And to withhold sex until marriage seems to work more in favor of women because after men have had sex that drive to impress is removed and they oftentimes realise they don’t actually like the person for who that person is and it was just the sex drive deceiving them all along.

That’s why I was saying men probably are more likely to get married just for sex. They may not realize it, but to require the commitment before sex is giving a guy the incentive to get married where he otherwise might not have.

I think the big difference between men and women is highlighted here. Men are more likely to grow emotionally close to someone after sex, whereas women usually have to be more emotionally attracted before sex.
 
“Disagreeing with God” is utterly pointless. He created reality itself. It is as pointless, as thinking gravity or the rotation of the earth is wrong and needs to be something other than what it is.

I don’t like everything that God does. I wish He would intervene to keep every sick child from getting cancer, or cystic fibrosis, or being born with horrible birth defects. It’s within His power. But He does not. I can either dislike, and disagree, and murmur to myself “He needs to do this”, or I can humbly submit myself to His Will, and give glory to His Name for being precisely What He is.
 
JosephDColeman said:
I’m a very physical guy and if there is no sexuality why wouldn’t I just hang out with my guy friends?
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Oh dear! 😬
I think you just did the equivalent of smashing a bee hive, pouring the honey over yourself and then remain there. 😁
Jokes aside, I understand exactly what you mean. And if it wasn’t for the procreative drive, which is what’s driving the attraction between men and women to start with, I would easily chose to only socialize with men. Not because I’m unable to socialize with women but it is waaaay less hassle with men simply because of a lower communication barrier between men, in my experience that is. The lack of sexual tension is also a huge bonus.

Personally I have also had a major issue with how to resolve sexual compatibility with the concept of abstinence before marriage, during my years in the church. So far I’ve yet to get a solid answer on that one.
 
Give yourself time. Feelings of disagreement are normal. God wrestles with us. Pray with confidence. God loves you and he wants you to be happy more than you want yourself to be happy.

Peace
 
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JosephDColeman said:
I can understand waiting until marriage if the girl is a virgin, but to have to get married before I can sleep with her when another guy didn’t have to make that commitment to get the same thing is crazy to me.
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But that is just it. Sex isn’t a transaction, and marriage isnt a prize. It is infinitely more special than that. The act you share in as a hisband and wife is very pleasurable and the two of you have the power to participate with God in creating a new person who will exist for eternity.

You’ve been trained for 30 years to think about it in a very different way, and the way you are accustomed to thinking about it will of course find the idea of waiting to be ridiculous. Again, give yourself time.

Peace.
 
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I always know Gods Will is best for me even if I dont get it sometimes, i know it will come out eventually then I will understand. I learned this over time from trusting sometimes my own hunches that were contrary to what I knew was Gods Will.
 
JosephDColeman said:
I think the big difference between men and women is highlighted here. Men are more likely to grow emotionally close to someone after sex, whereas women usually have to be more emotionally attracted before sex.
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This is an old myth that keeps going around. I don’t think I know, personally, one woman with a low sex drive. I do know men who have low libodos. Every human is different, so, do not buy into that myth.
JosephDColeman said:
But men’s intellect and reasoning is easily clouded by a desire for sex.
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People who have indulged in sex acts before marriage have their reason and intellect clouded by the release of the hormone oxytocin. God designed this bonding chemical to keep couples together in the bad times, it is actually stronger in women. It happens in childbirth and nursing and cuddling your kids, that is why you see parents do things that are outrageous, like mom catching her child’s vomit in her hands.

We have all had friends who stay in a crazy bad relationship while the other friends wonder “is he/she under a spell or that brainless to stay after X Y Z?”

The answer is kinda yes, if the couple is engaging in sexual acts.

This is another reason that self gratification is so damaging, one gets that release of bonding chemicals without a spouse.
 
Nothing is less manly than what you are saying about needing to touch and feel in order to “fall in love.”

It is mortal sin to “disagree with God” in the way you are describing. There is no way around it. God is right, you are wrong, and He is offended that you would presume to think you know better.

It would be manly to go confess these things very humbly, and then accept that God’s will is in fact better for you - and you will find much better things exist than touching - like self-gift and sacrifice… much manlier things.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
This is an old myth that keeps going around. I don’t think I know, personally, one woman with a low sex drive. I do know men who have low libodos. Every human is different, so, do not buy into that myth.
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The fact that there is a huge span between individuals has no bearing on what can be said for a group as a whole. And you simply do not know enough individuals and details about their sexuality to be able to draw conclusions that are applicable on humanity as a whole.
People who have indulged in sex acts before marriage have their reason and intellect clouded by the release of the hormone oxytocin. God designed this bonding chemical to keep couples together in the bad times, it is actually stronger in women.
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It is not like sex, childbirth or nursing are the only instances oxytocin is released.
 
kapp19 said:
Nothing is less manly than what you are saying about needing to touch and feel in order to “fall in love.”
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Kindly give a reference to the standard for manliness you measure the OP against?
 
Ironically, his namesake - Joseph.

Men protect women and care for them as good in themselves… and maybe they even want to have children with a particular woman and form a stable commitment in favor of those kids and for the sake of their own souls, and each other’s souls. Boys don’t care about that. (Notice how Adam behaves in the Garden - failing to step in between the Serpent and Eve, letting evil attack her. Contrast with Joseph and Mary, and Herod, for instance.)

To the OP - I am sorry if I come off as harsh, but I am appealing to you as a man - step up! You can do it!
 
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kapp19 said:
Ironically, his namesake - Joseph.
Men protect women and care for them as good in themselves… and maybe they even want to have children with a particular woman and form a stable commitment in favor of those kids and for the sake of their own souls, and each other’s souls. Boys don’t care about that.
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How is this in any way a explanation for:
“Nothing is less manly than what you are saying about needing to touch and feel in order to “fall in love.””
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A man’s desire to protect a women has nothing to do with what is required for him to fall in love with a woman. Or are you only protecting women you are in love with?
(Notice how Adam behaves in the Garden - failing to step in between the Serpent and Eve, letting evil attack her. Contrast with Joseph and Mary, and Herod, for instance.)
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Let’s agree to disagree on the historicity of that event.
 
It is antithetical to masculinity to use women selfishly. The paradigm is the opposite… self sacrifice.

You should be able to appreciate the point of the allusion without a debate about historicity.

-K
 
The answer to this comes down to your answer for the ancient philosophical question known as the Euthyphro dilemma. In short, does God approve of certain things because they are good, or do things become good only because God approves of them?

If you believe that God is an arbitrary being that makes things “good” by fiat, then you might think something is good and also think that God disapproves of that thing. If you follow that belief, you likely think you have obey God even if His edicts are not good.

But, if you think that God is inherently good and approves of our actions when they are good, then if you truly believe something is good you would assume God also approves of it. In that case your disagreement must mean that you either misunderstand what is good, or you misapprehend God’s intention. Unless you have perfect wisdom (which I think none of us do); or if you have personally heard directly from God (which I also doubt), then either of those things can be true. In that case, you should study and pray, with confidence that you will be able to reconcile your conscience with your understanding of God’s hopes and desires for you.
 
kapp19 said:
It is antithetical to masculinity to use women selfishly. The paradigm is the opposite… self sacrifice.
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That depends entirely on what standard you evoke. I can assure you that I won’t perform some form of self sacrifice for a woman just because she’s a woman. If a person needs help, being a man or a woman has very little influence for me.
You should be able to appreciate the point of the allusion without a debate about historicity.
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You described it as if it was historical description and gave the man a role not supported by the text.
 
You’re not wrong as such as long as you are open to God changing you. He will do, in his own time. The fact that you are obedient to him and seeking answers to find out why God has one way of thinking and you don’t agree shows you are using your reasoning as he gave it to you with his grace. That would be pleasing to God even if you don’t understand Gods way yet, you are 'seeking wisdom ’ whether you know it or not. There’s a lot about wisdom in the Bible.

Keep on reading and listening to all you can about the church’s teaching on the theology of the body and anything else God leads you too. He will most definitely lead you to understand one day. But do not expect it to be found in the way you expect, probably all the reading etc. will just be the groundwork and the great revelation will be some tiny personal thing between you and God. Enjoy the process, this is how you get to know God.
 
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kapp19 said:
To the OP - I am sorry if I come off as harsh, but I am appealing to you as a man - step up! You can do it!
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All good. It’s ironic you say that because I’m just finishing up “Be a Man!” By Larry Richards.
 
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