Is it wrong to give dignitaries special seating at Mass?

[PazzoGrande]

Get your facts straight…The Red Mass marks the beginning of the Legal Year. Traditionally, it is around the first two weeks of October. It is when the legal profession–attorneys and judges–pray that they may do their jobs correctly. It isn’t about nor has it ever been about “inspiration for politicians.”

I do have my facts straight, and I think we need a little bit more manners on this thread.

This site
dioceseofmarquette.org/upcarticle.asp?upcID=1206 writes that the Red Mass " is offered to invoke the Holy Spirit, Who is the source of wisdom, understanding, counsel and fortitude." How is that any different from it being a Mass for inspiration? It’s for inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Stylites]

Originally Posted by Mumbles140
Thinking about the guests at the table, remember that it is the guest who places himself in that honored position, and is then returned to a lower seat. However, I do not see any issue in selecting guests for honor.

Yes, I agree with both of you. Someone can be invited up to a seat of honor, and it is not in and of itself commiting the sin of human respect.

 

[MissRose73]

It is not wrong to give someone like a well known politician or other celebrity a seat near the front. It is more wrong for someone well known for any reason locally, nationally or internationally to demand a certain seat. I’d much rather see someone who is well known taking a seat in a pew amongst others and do their best to make sure they do not make themselves known.

Yes, we do give seats near the front for certain things like baptisms or other sacraments. For any other Mass that has nothing going on, then people should be able to sit in the main pews designated for the congregation in any seat they wish no matter their state of life.

 

[japhy]

Jesus is not the only person in the New Testament who spoke about seats of honor…

My brethren, show no partiality as you hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man with gold rings and in fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “Have a seat here, please,” while you say to the poor man, “Stand there,” or, “Sit at my feet,” have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? (James 2:1-4)

 

[PazzoGrande]

Jesus is not the only person in the New Testament who spoke about seats of honor…

My brethren, show no partiality as you hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man with gold rings and in fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “Have a seat here, please,” while you say to the poor man, “Stand there,” or, “Sit at my feet,” have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? (James 2:1-4)

Thanks for putting that up. It reinforces what I felt.

 

[Stylites]

Jesus is not the only person in the New Testament who spoke about seats of honor…

My brethren, show no partiality as you hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man with gold rings and in fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “Have a seat here, please,” while you say to the poor man, “Stand there,” or, “Sit at my feet,” have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts? (James 2:1-4)

Yes, that is one facet of the sin of human respect. Honoring someone because they are weathly or popular or have worldly honors is different from honoring someone who honors God.

 

[TimothyH]

There may be a benefit to putting a prominent politician in a prominent place at a Mass. It sends a powerful message to the world about what it important to that politician.

I remember the funeral of Blessed Pope John Paul II and what a powerful message it sent when so many world leaders mourned his loss.

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/...e=67&uid=f0ec947d-cef9-4df1-9545-bcee3600a9e2

These types of images can send a powerful message.

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow...del/12137886-1-eng-US/0328-fidel_full_600.jpg

-Tim-

 

[PazzoGrande]

That raises an interesting question. Was it wrong for the Cardinal Archbishop of Boston to specially do the funeral for Senator Kennedy? Did Kennedy get special treatment here? Shouldn’t he have had a regular priest preside just like how any other person would have been treated?

This is just one example where we could argue there is favouritism. Shouldn’t we be avoiding that sort of thing?

I could give another example. If I’m not mistaken, for the funeral for President Cory Aquino, an auxiliary bishop presided. Presumably if she were anyone else, it would have been just a regular priest doing it.

Arguably this is not the same deal as Paul VI doing the funeral for Aldo Moro, because those two men were longtime friends even without the status. Nor is it akin to the Pope today doing baptisms for the kids of the Swiss Guards, since that is about the boss doing an intimate favour for the folks who work for him.

 

[latin_rite]

No, I don’t agree.

They are honored guests.

So? what is so speacial about them, about anyone in Church? Once you walk through those doors, You are entering the house of someone whose power is immeasurable. and who thinks you are just as important as any ‘honoured guest’ in Church you are as important as any king, president or anyone else for that matter. i wouldn’t give up my seat for anyone. just because of their 'status " in society. I wouldn’t give it up a king, a president or even the Pope. I think in all honesty the only person i would give my seat up for would be a disabled or an elderly person.

 

[PazzoGrande]

There may be a benefit to putting a prominent politician in a prominent place at a Mass. It sends a powerful message to the world about what it important to that politician.

-Tim-

In addition to that there are a ton of security concerns.

Still, I wasn’t all that comfortable with the former US Presidents being able to see the body without having to wait in line like everyone else and got more time in front of the body. People there waited in line for days under rain, many of them fainting, all just to quickly walk past the Pope.

Meanwhile President Clinton (who, don’t get me wrong, I am a big fan of) didn’t have to wait in any line, got to kneel there for a couple minutes, and didn’t even look like he was praying but was just looking over bored.

As Stylites said, “Honoring someone because they are weathly or popular or have worldly honors is different from honoring someone who honors God.” Shouldn’t the devout masses get a better break than the bored but powerful Bill Clinton?

I realise that if he didn’t get to have that special place without having to wait in line, he wouldn’t have gone at all. But my feeling is, tough for him. The Church’s pastoral role is more important than the photo-op.

But that’s just me. There are diplomatic and protocol procedures to follow, but I think we need to continuously ask if those procedures make sense in today’s world. I think the Gospel calls us to continuously question the rules and procedures we have.

 

[maryjk]

In addition to that there are a ton of security concerns.

Still, I wasn’t all that comfortable with the former US Presidents being able to see the body without having to wait in line like everyone else and got more time in front of the body. People there waited in line for days under rain, many of them fainting, all just to quickly walk past the Pope.

Meanwhile President Clinton (who, don’t get me wrong, I am a big fan of) didn’t have to wait in any line, got to kneel there for a couple minutes, and didn’t even look like he was praying but was just looking over bored.

You understand that there are security concerns but you really don’t care?

Yes, there are security concerns. If a former president waiting in line for 4 days, what do you think could happen? Kidnapping? Assassination? But that’s okay with you???

And so what that he didn’t “look” like he was praying. How is it that you have to look, to look like you are praying? Are there standards?

 

[maryjk]

So? what is so speacial about them, about anyone in Church? Once you walk through those doors, You are entering the house of someone whose power is immeasurable. and who thinks you are just as important as any ‘honoured guest’ in Church you are as important as any king, president or anyone else for that matter.** i wouldn’t give up my seat for anyone. just because of their 'status " in society. I wouldn’t give it up a king, a president or even the Pope**. I think in all honesty the only person i would give my seat up for would be a disabled or an elderly person.

Sad.

But don’t worry, you would never be asked to give up your seat. Security personnel would have blocked off those seats well before you went into the church.

 

[PazzoGrande]

You understand that there are security concerns but you really don’t care?

Yes, there are security concerns. If a former president waiting in line for 4 days, what do you think could happen? Kidnapping? Assassination? But that’s okay with you???

And so what that he didn’t “look” like he was praying. How is it that you have to look, to look like you are praying? Are there standards?

Anyone ever tell you that you have an attitude problem? Stay off this thread that I started. I could respond back but I don’t think you’re worth the time. Discourteous people like yourself are part of the problem. Thank you.

 

[SMHW]

There is favoritism and there is prudence.

The whole issue of special seating usually only comes up if there is going to be media coverage or if there are security concerns. In the case of genuine security concerns then all in attendance at the Mass are at risk so it is prudent for the security guidelines to be followed.

That leaves us with the cases where the media is present. If someone has made the decision that the media can be present with cameras, microphones, etc. then that person has already decided to make this a promotional Mass. In the case of such promotions it is prudent for the Church to maintain some control over what the media will see and report. Seating certain people in certain places will aid the Church in maintaining some of that control.

 

[maryjk]

Anyone ever tell you that you have an attitude problem? Stay off this thread that I started. I could respond back but I don’t think you’re worth the time. Discourteous people like yourself are part of the problem. Thank you.

Sorry, you can’t kick people off of the thread you started simply because they don’t agree with you.

 

[ProVobis]

The late President Cory Aquino also reportedly sat with the crowd in an inconspicuous seat when she’d go to Mass.

The couple of times I “ran into” celebrity and a pro sports figure at Mass, they would sit or stand in inconspicuous places. That says to me that they didn’t want to draw attention to themselves.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Sorry, you can’t kick people off of the thread you started simply because they don’t agree with you.

My problem was your discourtesy. Others here disagreed with me and you don’t see me clashing with them, only you.

Welcome to my blocked users list.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

A priest in Connecticut, who happens to be a family friend, shared a wonderful story about his dealings with a politician at Mass. As Yale was in his parish, and the newest Yale professor happened to be the recently-converted former PM Blair, this priest thought it prudent to invite him to attend Mass. After some dialogue, and a security sweep of the church, Tony attended mass. The priest asked him (prior to that Sunday) if he wanted to sit anywhere in particular for security reasons, but Tony decided to be seated near the back, as he did not want his presence to take away from the Mass. I’m not sure if there was a ‘reserved’ section or not in the back, but I find these measures to be reasonable.

However, there are some politicians I would love to give a very special placement for. I think Pelosi, Biden, and the rest should all have front row seats to the confessional screen!

**
That’s a wonderful story of humility and grace, regarding Blair. Thank you for sharing that!**

 

[ora_pro_nobis]

A priest in Connecticut, who happens to be a family friend, shared a wonderful story about his dealings with a politician at Mass. As Yale was in his parish, and the newest Yale professor happened to be the recently-converted former PM Blair, this priest thought it prudent to invite him to attend Mass. After some dialogue, and a security sweep of the church, Tony attended mass. The priest asked him (prior to that Sunday) if he wanted to sit anywhere in particular for security reasons, but Tony decided to be seated near the back, as he did not want his presence to take away from the Mass. I’m not sure if there was a ‘reserved’ section or not in the back, but I find these measures to be reasonable.

However, there are some politicians I would love to give a very special placement for. I think Pelosi, Biden, and the rest should all have front row seats to the confessional screen!

When Tony Blair was still Prime Minister (and before he was received into the church) he would often pop into my church for Mass, on his own, sitting near the back. He had a security guy who would stay in the porch or take a seat at the back. all very low key.

 

[latin_rite]

Sad.

But don’t worry, you would never be asked to give up your seat. Security personnel would have blocked off those seats well before you went into the church.

Yes. Very sad. That you seem to think that you’re somehow less important in the eyes of God than someone else. Well if someone was going to get their earlier to take my usul seat. I would just have to make the effort of getting there extra early,