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Chris_LaRock
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Music does have subversive affects on people.
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Chris_LaRock
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Urf
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Chris LaRock:
The only one? Yes. I wish people would stop blaming violence on stupid little things like video games and music. That kid didnt kill his mom and steal a car because of Grand Theft Auto. The kids behind columbine did not do it because of Marilyn Mansonm they were sick in the head.
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wabrams
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Chris LaRock:
Marilyn Manson’s a no brainer. BTW, try using another site. It’s obvious this one is ridiculously bias.
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Everyman
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Nearly everyone’s comments are completely irrelevant to the question. Everyone seems so concerned with debunking that lame website that they’re missing the real issue.
It’s not so much the lyrics or if the particular artist is a Christian.
Most “Christian” art is poor (e.g. Frank Peretti, Thomas Kinkade, Precious Moments); it’s mere kitsh, the denial of ****. However, much of “secular” art, indeed pagan art, is excellent (take ancient Greek sculpture, for example).
The primary subject of consideration should be the style. As it has been said, “The medium is the message.” We’re so distracted by studying lyrics that we neglect to analyze what effects us even more, the means of conveance.
The true culprit is pop culture. As the first century Christians had the Colosseum, later believers had Gothic invaders and the plague. We today have a much more subtle, yet equally deadly opponent, pop culture.
As Ken Myers wrote, “Enemies that come loudly and visibly are usually much easier to fight than those that are indetectable. Physical affliction (even to the point of death) for the sake of Christ is a heavy cross, but at least it can be readily recognized at the time as a trial of faith. But the erosion of character, the spoiling of innocent pleasures, and the cheapening of life itself that often accompany modern popular culture can occur so subtly that we believe nothing has happened. Christian concern about popular culture should be as much about the sensibilties it encourages as about its content.”
And the Christian alternatives are no different. they still use the same formats, thinking there is no problem as long as they profess Christ. The problem is that such a profession is not only done by word; it should effect how we eat, drink, make love, and make art.
-Everyman
It’s not so much the lyrics or if the particular artist is a Christian.
Most “Christian” art is poor (e.g. Frank Peretti, Thomas Kinkade, Precious Moments); it’s mere kitsh, the denial of ****. However, much of “secular” art, indeed pagan art, is excellent (take ancient Greek sculpture, for example).
The primary subject of consideration should be the style. As it has been said, “The medium is the message.” We’re so distracted by studying lyrics that we neglect to analyze what effects us even more, the means of conveance.
The true culprit is pop culture. As the first century Christians had the Colosseum, later believers had Gothic invaders and the plague. We today have a much more subtle, yet equally deadly opponent, pop culture.
As Ken Myers wrote, “Enemies that come loudly and visibly are usually much easier to fight than those that are indetectable. Physical affliction (even to the point of death) for the sake of Christ is a heavy cross, but at least it can be readily recognized at the time as a trial of faith. But the erosion of character, the spoiling of innocent pleasures, and the cheapening of life itself that often accompany modern popular culture can occur so subtly that we believe nothing has happened. Christian concern about popular culture should be as much about the sensibilties it encourages as about its content.”
And the Christian alternatives are no different. they still use the same formats, thinking there is no problem as long as they profess Christ. The problem is that such a profession is not only done by word; it should effect how we eat, drink, make love, and make art.
-Everyman
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Chris_LaRock
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The point I was making is that spiritual enemies of man have used music and other popular media to influence people to view immorality as normal, acceptable, and expected of us. Nobody can doubt that young people derive thier world veiws from what they hear and see.
Maybe it’s because the site I recommended wasn’t Catholic?
Maybe it’s because the site I recommended wasn’t Catholic?
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Everyman
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More on this subject. Check out these books:
-All God’s Children and Blue Suede Shoes, by Ken Myers
-Art and Soul: Signposts for Christians in the Arts, by Hilary Brand and Adrienne Chaplin
-Amusing Ourselves to Death, by Neil Postman
Also, C.S. Lewis in his “The Weight of Glory and Other Addresses” speaks to this kind of artistic standard when he says, “If you reject aesthetic satisfaction you will fall into sensual satisfaction.”
-Everyman
-All God’s Children and Blue Suede Shoes, by Ken Myers
-Art and Soul: Signposts for Christians in the Arts, by Hilary Brand and Adrienne Chaplin
-Amusing Ourselves to Death, by Neil Postman
Also, C.S. Lewis in his “The Weight of Glory and Other Addresses” speaks to this kind of artistic standard when he says, “If you reject aesthetic satisfaction you will fall into sensual satisfaction.”
-Everyman
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breathespirit
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For me, it is wrong to listen to some kinds of music. I used to think, ahh, its ok, I like the beat, it sounds better etc…However, the more I tuned into Christ, the more I tuned out to rap and hip hop. I used to be the club type who liked to get my dance on and this music, although attractive, makes me think in ways that are not Christ-like.
Someone posted that it weak minded if you are tempted by music, but studies show we Are influenced by what we listen to. In addition, many people are attracted to music that soothes them emotionally. For example, someone without much parental guidance or love might find comfort in rockers who sing of pain and suffering, because as adolescents for example, they feel a lack of love and feel great pain. Therefore, its a comfort that someone understands them.
I know Christian music isn’t always the best, but some stores let you listen to the music before buying, and I think theres a little something for everyone nowadays.
I hope that helps!
Someone posted that it weak minded if you are tempted by music, but studies show we Are influenced by what we listen to. In addition, many people are attracted to music that soothes them emotionally. For example, someone without much parental guidance or love might find comfort in rockers who sing of pain and suffering, because as adolescents for example, they feel a lack of love and feel great pain. Therefore, its a comfort that someone understands them.
I know Christian music isn’t always the best, but some stores let you listen to the music before buying, and I think theres a little something for everyone nowadays.
I hope that helps!
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urban-hermit
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I agree with you.
I guess not everyone hums the music they heard that morning all day long, but I do. So I want that song to be something that will please God, not offend Him.
I’ve always liked a lot of the pop Christian music, but lately I am discovering more and more Catholic artists that I really like, like Angus McDonell, Matt Maher (The End and the Beginning and Welcome to Life), Sarah Hart, Curtis Stephan and Rachael Lampa .
Does anybody else here listen to Christian/Catholic music?
What are your favorite (Christian/Catholic) artists?
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breathespirit
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wow thanks for directing the names to websites. I listen to the local christian radio station but I thought all the artists were most likely protestant oriented. Thanks for enlightening me on the Catholic artists as well!
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mvinca
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I think there are alot of Christian artists that are Catholic but don’t advertise that as much because not alot of Catholics were listening. It is nice to see that changing. I listen to Christian stations all the time, but some artists are definitely Protestant. I get irritated sometimes when I hear a song about pre-trib. There actually are quite a few of them.
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breathespirit
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excuse my ignorance of abbreviations, whats pre-trib?
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snow_white
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I am going to have to borrow the question from the Protestants on this one and ask, “Would Jesus listen to this kind of music?” Honestly, even if it has mildly sexual or violent elements of it, if your goal is to be more Christlike, should you settle for such things? The question as to whether music affects the soul was raised by thinkers such as Plato, and also modern philosophers today. It is a big debate, but I tend to agree with Plato. The truth is is that music affects your emotions, sometimes recognizable, sometimes not. Since the direction of our passions guides our character and disposition, it would follow that music affects character.
I say, don’t only just pay attention to the lyrics, but pay attention to the beat. I know one Christian musician that has songs that naturally make you want to dance provocatively. One must ask themselves, why? And than there is some music that if listened to loudly and in a group causes a mob effect, which often leads to violence. Why is that?
Someone mentioned that if you are mature enough, you can listen to that kind of music. I disagree. If you are mature enough, you WON’T listen to that kind of music.
I say, don’t only just pay attention to the lyrics, but pay attention to the beat. I know one Christian musician that has songs that naturally make you want to dance provocatively. One must ask themselves, why? And than there is some music that if listened to loudly and in a group causes a mob effect, which often leads to violence. Why is that?
Someone mentioned that if you are mature enough, you can listen to that kind of music. I disagree. If you are mature enough, you WON’T listen to that kind of music.
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Amie
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I find that what has helped me in this area is knowing that my two kids are sitting behind me in the car, and are starting to sing along to my music choices. I cringe at certain songs, even if they aren’t that bad (oldies, and such…) Sometimes, you don’t even realize that some music is harmful until you really listen to the lyrics and hear them being repeated by a 3 year old! Suffice to say, my musical choices are either a) being limited when my kids are in the car or b) changing completely, because if it’s not something I want my kids to hear, then why am I listening?
Hope this helps you discern. But, I think you already know the answer and are looking for a way to make it easier to talk your way out of it. Ask God and Mary what they think, and listen in your heart for their answer. If you feel uneasy asking them, it may be because your conscience is already giving you direction in this area.
God bless!
-Amy
Hope this helps you discern. But, I think you already know the answer and are looking for a way to make it easier to talk your way out of it. Ask God and Mary what they think, and listen in your heart for their answer. If you feel uneasy asking them, it may be because your conscience is already giving you direction in this area.
God bless!
-Amy
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urban-hermit
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It has to do with what some Protestants believe about the end times, what they call “The Rapture”.
Pre-trib means before the great tribulation, which the book of the Apocalpse (aka the book of Revelation) says will happen shortly before Jesus returns to earth, and will be a time of great hardship and persecution for those who stay faithful to Him and go against the current of the evil forces in this world.
Below are 2 articles from catholic.com dealing with the rapture theology that some (only some) Protestants subscribe to, and how Catholic beliefs about the end times differ in important ways.
catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp
catholic.com/library/false_profit.asp
They are kinda long, but the main point I got from these articles and other stuff I’ve read is that the Catholic Church believes that when Jesus comes back, it will not be some secret deal, but a glorious event that all the world will know about ("…He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His Kingdom will have no end.)
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urban-hermit
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You are most welcome! And thank you for posting in this thread - I enjoyed hearing your viewpoint!
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mlchance
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Because sometimes things that are appropriate for adults aren’t appropriate for children.
– Mark L. Chance.
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breathespirit
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I like what you wrote here, can I add that everything is
bi-directional? Prayer, conversations with friends, parental relations, how our environment shapes us and we shape our environment, our community etc… All of the many contexts in our lives are intricately woven together and due to inexplicable experiences is forever changing in a bi-directional fashion.
This is a reason why I am so in awe of God, the unique design of each of his creations is amazingly beyond all comprehension.
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urban-hermit
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In music ?
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urban-hermit
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I agree. And on the positive side, if you are “caught” singing the refrain of a song that praises God and you are all happy and stuff, that is a kind of witness to get people thinking sometimes.
This has happened to me at work a couple of times. I don’t sing them just to convert people or anything, the songs are just rattling around in my head and sometimes they come out when I’m doing repetetive stuff. But I do think it is a good witness and gets people thinking "hey, maybe being a Catholic can be fun … "
I have had Angus McDonell’s catchy refrain from “The Holy Face” going through my head for the last few days at work. My manager heard me singing “…let the Holy Face of Jesus shine upon you …” And he just laughed and said “are you singing one of those Jesus songs again?” I laughed too and said, “yup” !
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