Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

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jmcrae said:
No, certainly not. The Catholic Church provides us with the Confessional, which puts the “bar” right down on the floor where absolutely anyone can cross over it, even while on his or her knees. 😉

Not really, no. They might be part of some people’s experiences of the Church, through uncatechized adults and through adults who perhaps just have a mean streak in them, but it is not the official policy of the Church to try to frighten people into Heaven.

Hell is a real place, of course, and guilt is a gift that tells us something is wrong - we need to have a proper respect for their places in the broader scheme of things, but we don’t go to Heaven for fear of Hell - we go to Heaven out of love for God, and “perfect love casts out fear.” 🙂
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IMO considering we have no way of knowing what made him the way he was…was he truly ill something he could not control,etc…I would say we have no place in answering…I have no idea who is in heaven or not.

I believe our actions do determine where we will go…but I also know some people are truly sick and really cannot help the things they do or how they become.

Only God is able to make these decisions if the world (humans ) were to judge we would all eb in hell.

Thank Goodness God does the judging.👍
 
Jimmy_B said:
Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

Here is an article that claims that Jeffrey Dahmer, the admitted homosexual, who abducted, raped, tortured, murdered and cannibalized many young innocent victims, became a “born-again” Christian while in prison…

Does this mean that “born again” and other Protestant Christians believe that Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven?

Are his victims in heaven with him?

Is it possible that some of his victims are not in heaven and he is?

Do you agree with this Martin Luther quote? -

“No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
“Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter from Luther to Melanchthon”.– c.1521)

I believe that we are judged by our “works”, good and bad. I also believe that a virtuous life does have merit. I do not believe that there exists an automatic “Get out of Hell” card.

I believe in God’s infinite mercy and I believe that anything is possible in God; however, I also believe that bad people go to Hell. Jeffrey Dahmer is a bad person so doesn’t that mean that he is in Hell?

Additionally, I have read that Jeffrey Dahmer was involved in the Occult, or satanic worship, wouldn’t this behavior, fall under, “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”, the un-forgivable sin?

I do not believe that Jeffery Dahmer is in heaven, what do you think?
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I’m not sure this is a good example of the flaws of the “once saved, always saved” idea. If Jeffrey Dahmer was a Christian before he became a serial killer, then this would be a good example.

This is an example of someone who did terrible things and then purported to seek forgiveness. There shouldn’t be a question over whether or not God can forgive a person who has done terrible things. If He can’t, then St. Paul and St. Augustine are actually not saints, but roasting in Hell as we speak. The question is, “Did Jeffrey Dahmer actually repent from his crimes, and was he validly baptized?” Since I don’t know the answer to that, I have no idea whether or not he is in Heaven.
 
peary said:
Teach me.
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:eek: Well, that is a little scary for me. I’ve heard that verse before, and what you typed made me suspect it was the one you meant in your post. What does it mean, though? :hmmm: Interestingly, it appears in two separate places in the gospel of Matthew, so we have two uses of it to ponder. I had given only one appearance of the phrase. For some reason the parallel accounts to those verses in Mark (and Luke) do not have the phrase. Also, it is a quote from the Old Testament, from Hosea 6:6, so maybe it would help to look at that area first, and then read the verses from the NT.
Hosea 6:1 In their affliction, they shall look for me: “Come, let us return to the LORD, For it is he who has rent, but he will heal us; he has struck us, but he will bind our wounds.
2 He will revive us after two days; on the third day he will raise us up, to live in his presence.
3 Let us know, let us strive to know the LORD; as certain as the dawn is his coming, and his judgment shines forth like the light of day! He will come to us like the rain, like spring rain that waters the earth.”
4 What can I do with you, Ephraim? What can I do with you, Judah? Your piety is like a morning cloud, like the dew that early passes away.
5 For this reason I smote them through the prophets, I slew them by the words of my mouth;
6 For it is love that I desire, not sacrifice, and knowledge of God rather than holocausts.
7 But they, in their land, violated the covenant; there they were untrue to me.
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In Hosea there to me it sounds like the context is a return to God and conversion on the part of his people. But their love is like morning dew that evaporates shortly when the sun hits it. It sound like God wants a true love and knowledge of God from them, and not just some outward appearance of a sacrifice or burnt offering. He wants it to be genuine, from the heart maybe.

So, when we look at Matthew and how the phrase is used in two different places as a rebuke of the Pharisees, what does it mean? Well, without even reading the NT passages, it could be about the Pharisee’s heart. But let’s look anyway. 😉
Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus was going through a field of grain on the sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat them.
2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “See, your disciples are doing what is unlawful to do on the sabbath.”
3 He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry,
4 how he went into the house of God and ate the bread of offering, which neither he nor his companions but only the priests could lawfully eat?
5 Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests serving in the temple violate the sabbath and are innocent?
6 I say to you, something greater than the temple is here.
7 If you knew what this meant, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned these innocent men.
8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath.”
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Here it appears in the context of controversy about Jesus and the Sabbath, like what he or his disciples do on the Sabbath. It almost sounds like the Pharisees didn’t know the ways of God or what he means with his laws and the exceptions or priorities within the law, rather than an indictment of their hearts. But, maybe not, since Jesus mentions that they condemned someone. Then it more seems like they lacked the right heart towards their fellow man, even though they kept external observances and laws.
Matthew 9:9 As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the customs post. He said to him, “Follow me.” And he got up and followed him.
10 While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples.
11 The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 He heard this and said, “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.
13 Go and learn the meaning of the words, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”
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Here, there almost seems an underlying comparison between the sinners at the table and the Pharisees, like perhaps which set of people have a true heart of conversion. Maybe it relates to another place in Matthew where Jesus complains about the Pharisees tying up heavy loads and not lifting a finger to lift them, and then shortly after that he says that the greatest among you must be your servant. Those sinners need someone to come to them and they need to repent with a true heart. It would certainly be an obstacle if the healer did not go amongst the sick.

So, anyway, it could mean a lot of things.

BTW, the CCC explains that the phrase does not mean that sacrifice itself is not okay. He desires it to be with love, though:
**2100 **Outward sacrifice, to be genuine, must be the expression of spiritual sacrifice: "The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit. . . . " The prophets of the Old Covenant often denounced sacrifices that were not from the heart or not coupled with love of neighbor. Jesus recalls the words of the prophet Hosea: “I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.” The only perfect sacrifice is the one that Christ offered on the cross as a total offering to the Father’s love and for our salvation. By uniting ourselves with his sacrifice we can make our lives a sacrifice to God.
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With regard to men similar to Dahmer, the phrase could cut both ways, I suppose. It could be about us refusing mercy/love to them, or it could be about them not having a true conversion, and only making an outward show of it.

:twocents:
 
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Catechism of the Catholic Church**
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1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
 
firstly, where exactly in the word does it ever imply a place called purgatory, that is false doctrine. secondly Dahmer accepted Jesus as his Lord and Saviour, that means he didnt die in his sins because his sins are paid for on the cross, he is in heaven
 
Let me ask you this. You might even want to use this for the basis of another poll:

If you went to heaven, and found Jeffery Dahmer there, would you be disappointed or angry?
 
PaulDupre said:
Only if the person knows that he is supposed to go to mass, knows that it is gravely sinful not to go, is able to go, but decides not to go anyway.

I would think that most non-Catholics do not fulfill all of these pre-requisites.

God bless,
Paul
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Exactly. Many adult Americans are, in fact, taught that the Catholic Church is evil. If this is what they’ve been taught in prison, by so-called religious people, you can’t blame the person for not knowing and accepting Catholicism.

We were at a parade recently, and there was the same old OSAS person passing out pamphlets. Not to the adults. No. To the teens.

These types know who to target. Prisoners are a captive audience.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

Here is an article that claims that Jeffrey Dahmer, the admitted homosexual, who abducted, raped, tortured, murdered and cannibalized many young innocent victims, became a “born-again” Christian while in prison…

Does this mean that “born again” and other Protestant Christians believe that Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven?

Are his victims in heaven with him?

Is it possible that some of his victims are not in heaven and he is?

Do you agree with this Martin Luther quote? -

“No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
“Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter from Luther to Melanchthon”.– c.1521)

I believe that we are judged by our “works”, good and bad. I also believe that a virtuous life does have merit. I do not believe that there exists an automatic “Get out of Hell” card.

I believe in God’s infinite mercy and I believe that anything is possible in God; however, I also believe that bad people go to Hell. Jeffrey Dahmer is a bad person so doesn’t that mean that he is in Hell?

Additionally, I have read that Jeffrey Dahmer was involved in the Occult, or satanic worship, wouldn’t this behavior, fall under, “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”, the un-forgivable sin?

I do not believe that Jeffery Dahmer is in heaven, what do you think?
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If Dahmer’s confession of Christ was sincere, then I suspect that currently he’d be in Purgatory. He’d have a few bad habits to modify before he could be admitted to heaven. So he could be in Purgatory for quite a while. I think at one of the Marian apparitions, she stated that at least one person would be in Purgatory till the end of time (I sometimes wonder if that was Ivan the Terrible, the Russian Tsar, who was supposed to have repented of his cruelty).

Christ was prepared to forgive even those who hammered the nails through His feet, and in one sense there’s not a lot of difference of degree between killing someone unjustly (or justly) by crucifixion and a backyard murder.

I’m not sure what happens when he does get to heaven with the memory of his behaviour still there, but with a new holiness as his character. I suspect it is as Paul wrote when a man escapes through the flames but has absolutely nothing left. I don’t know if we’re allowed to forget our past deeds in a sort of amnesia, or whether we carry the memory with us always. Does Peter always remember his tri-fold denial of Christ?
 
Bob_Crowley said:
If Dahmer’s confession of Christ was sincere, then I suspect that currently he’d be in Purgatory. He’d have a few bad habits to modify before he could be admitted to heaven. So he could be in Purgatory for quite a while. I think at one of the Marian apparitions, she stated that at least one person would be in Purgatory till the end of time (I sometimes wonder if that was Ivan the Terrible, the Russian Tsar, who was supposed to have repented of his cruelty).
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…

Unless, of course, he was flamin’ insane, in which case he is not in need of punishment and habit changing as he is healing and comfort. I wouldn’t want to wake up one day, suddenly sane, and realize what I did when I was INSANE. Something tells me that nothing hell could throw at us could match that in purest suffering.

On the other hand, he could simply be the embodiment of purest evil.

Not that I’m going to judge the state of his soul in any way. That’s up to our Father in Heaven. I’m just glad that he was caught and stopped here.
 
If jeffery dahmer truly repented and accepted Jesus christ as lord and savior then yes he will be in heaven (after a long strech in purgatory). If he did not than he will be in hell.
 
Well, obviously, I am not the keeper of Kamma so I would not know. Considering his acts and the way in which he lived his life, it is possible he is in Niraya. Sad thing, it is.
 
Jimmy,

I find your imperviousness to serious theological discussion rather frustrating. No matter how many times Christians of all traditions point out that anyone can repent and that a repentant sinner will be forgiven no matter how horrific his sins, all you can do after this long thread is post a picture intended to represent hell?

It’s as if you badly *want *Dahmer to be damned, and that scares me.

Perhaps we should all worry less about Dahmer’s salvation (which is in God’s hands, though we can pray for his soul) and pay more attention to our own spiritual condition. It is not at all impossible that both you and I could be damned while Dahmer is saved.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Jimmy,

I find your imperviousness to serious theological discussion rather frustrating. No matter how many times Christians of all traditions point out that anyone can repent and that a repentant sinner will be forgiven no matter how horrific his sins, all you can do after this long thread is post a picture intended to represent hell?

It’s as if you badly *want *Dahmer to be damned, and that scares me.

Perhaps we should all worry less about Dahmer’s salvation (which is in God’s hands, though we can pray for his soul) and pay more attention to our own spiritual condition. It is not at all impossible that both you and I could be damned while Dahmer is saved.

Edwin
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Dahmer did wrong doing in his life, though. Why would he deserve a heaven state?
 
AJTheMan said:
Dahmer did wrong doing in his life, though. Why would he deserve a heaven state?
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That’s the whole point - nobody deserves to go to Heaven. Anyone who goes, goes because he has repented of all his sins, and because by God’s grace He has chosen to forgive you.

With regard to not going to Heaven, there is no difference between not repenting of lying to your mother, and not repenting of murdering hundreds of people and then eating their bodies.

Most of us don’t commit mass murder, but most of us, by the time we reach an age when we know we’re doing wrong, have disappointed our mothers by lying to them. If you never repent of that, then you won’t go to Heaven. If you do, then God’s promise is that He will forgive you, and it is on the strength of His forgiveness that we go to Heaven - not on anything that we do, really.

Even Mother Mary, who was perfect in every way, credited her perfection to God’s grace and not to her own efforts, although surely she cooperated with God’s grace in heroic virtue - it could not have been easy for her. But without God’s grace, no amount of hard work and sacrifice on her part could have saved her.
 
Cathdefender said:
If that thought comforts you, then any murderer will go to heaven according to our Lord. That isn’t comforting to me…knowing I could go out and kill someone knowing I’d be in heaven? :confused:
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don’t have time to read all posts so hope no one already said ths…

if you as a Catholic went out and killed someone (not in self defense …) you could still go to Heavne if you genuinely repented… but you would undero temporary Hell otherwise known as Purgatoyr…

and from waht i have heard, that is NOT fun… it is excurtiating… (Purg) …

There is no free lunch… we reap waht we sow…
 
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