Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

[elvisman]

The facts…the fact that LutheranDK is a Catholid-hater???

Just because you say so doesn’t make it true.

It seems to me that the only fact here is that you are engaging in mud throwing to see if any of it is sticking. Guess what…none of it is

I meant, face the facts that LutheranDK is not part of the Catholic Church. That he belongs to a divorced faction of Christianity - as all Protestants do. Please read carefully, my friend. As for him being a “Catholic-hater” - a tree is known by its fruit.

With all due respect, without proof…this is no more than a religious belief that you are putting forth as fact.

Now all of this may or may not be true, but if it is factual, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate its truth.

BTW…coming home to me would be returning to the United Methodist church of my youth…which is not impossible that it will happen sometime.

Ummmm . . . no, it’s a fact. You’re going to deny that there was a Protestant Reformation? It was a self-divorce from the Catholic Church.
**There is only ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and you aren’t part of it. BUT - I do pray that someday, you and angry Protestants like LutheranDK WILL be part of it. **

 

[elvisman]

I just simply can’t take you seriously… You run around blurting out accusations, calling me a “catholic-hater” for no other reason than the fact that I disagree with you, and I am the one who needs to grow up and show charity?



Why don’t you just keep quiet before you make an even bigger fool of yourself?

So young and so angry . . .

Listen, I call you a Catholic-hater because that’s how you come off. It’s not in disagreeing with the Catholic Church - it’s in your disrespectful and immature tone. You persist in using the word, “Roman” when others have asked you not to. I don’t see this as a bad label, but it’s simply not the name of the Church. We are the Catholic Church - the ONE and ONLY Church established by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Please show me where he established another**. . . **

 

[jmcrae]

I truly know church history, and I’m not Roman-Catholic.

Then you’re aware that, because Luther abdicated whatever authority in the Church he may have had by allowing himself to be excommunicated (and let’s face it, it’s not like he made it easy for anyone to help him become reconciled with the Church), anyone he may have “ordained” remains still a lay person, which means that anyone they ordained, remains still a lay person, on down to the present day, which means that your church has no priests - only lay people dressed up to look like priests.

What this means is that nobody in your church has the ability to preside over any Sacraments except for baptism and marriage, and that your church also lacks any authority to convene any kind of a Council or Synod, or to make any kind of pronouncements on doctrine or morals.

 

[Jimmy_B]

We are talking about the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which has one Infallible Pope - Benedict XVI…right?

The Church in Rome (Vatican City), which gave us the Bible, is commonly referred to as, the “Roman Catholic Church”… People say “Roman Catholic”, as apposed to simply saying, “Catholic’… to indicated the they belong to the “Church with the Pope”, the one whose Holy See is in Vatican City.

The term “Catholic” can apply to many other branches of Catholicism, which are not Roman Catholic and do not recognize the Supremacy of the Pope.

It is as simple as that…

I don’t understand the confusion here and I don’t understand how it is possible to assert that any “Protestant” denomination is “Catholic” (upper case “C”).

The easiest solution for someone who wants to be referred as “Catholic”…Is to convert to the Roman Catholic Church…Then, everyone will know what you mean, when you say, “I am a Catholic…a Roman Catholic”.

Peace

BTW, is Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven?

 

[jmcrae]

BTW, is Jeffrey Dahmer in heaven?

It is impossible to know. God’s mercy is bigger than the difference between our small sins and Jeffrey Dahmer’s big sins. If he made an Act of Contrition, if he was baptized, if he made a sincere Confession of his sins - all these things could have brought him to salvation in Jesus Christ. God is great!!

 

[Cathdefender]

God is a merciful God, but He is also a Just God…

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

When my wife and I pray our rosary, we pray at the end of each decade that Jesus bring all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of your mercy. So I want him to be there, not because of something he did or did not do, but I desire mercy. So in any specific case: Dahmler, Hitler, Stalin, I would hope that God is merciful.

As to a general discussion, not that of any one particular person:

I DO NOT think it would be because someone prayed some “cute little incantation” called a sinner’s prayer.

I DO think it would be because God is merciful.

I DO think the sacraments are the only assurance. God can do whatever He desires, but He does give us assurance through the sacraments of His One True Church, the Catholic Church.

I WONDER if a Baptism (outside the Catholic Church) is valid if like imperfect contrition, is just to get out hell good enough, or do you need to be desiring pleasing God, like a perfect contrition in penance.

 

[Cathdefender]

God cannot be merciful toward everyone.

 

[jmcrae]

God cannot be merciful toward everyone.

Why not?

 

[Cathdefender]

Why not?

Because I just cannot see Dahmer and Hitler with Mother Teresa.
But I am not God. If everyone is in heaven, then who is in hell?

 

[jmcrae]

Because I just cannot see Dahmer and Hitler with Mother Teresa.
But I am not God. If everyone is in heaven, then who is in hell?

The Devil and his demons, for whom it was created. (Hell was not created for human beings.)

 

[Cathdefender]

The Devil and his demons, for whom it was created. (Hell was not created for human beings.)

Huh? What was it created for then? It clearly states in the bible non-believers will be cast into Gehenna…

 

[jmcrae]

Huh? What was it created for then? It clearly states in the bible non-believers will be cast into Gehenna…

Hell was created for the Devil and his demons.

Not for human beings.

It is possible for human beings to go there. They go there, not for their sins, but for not believing in Jesus Christ and the power of His mercy to save them from even the very worst sins.

What this means is, that if Jeffrey Dahmer believed, or wanted to believe, in the mercy of Jesus Christ, and if he did things that signified his sincerity, then there is a good chance that he is in Heaven.

If Jeffrey Dahmer (or Hitler, or Pol Pot) is in Heaven, he is no longer doing the horrible things that he did when he was living on the earth. He has been changed (most likely via Purgatory) into what God had originally designed him to be, before things went horribly wrong and he started doing horrible things.

These are a lot of big huge "if"s though. We can have no way of knowing whether he had a conversion, and if he did, whether it was sincere, or not. I’d like to hope that he did.

 

[Cathdefender]

Hell was created for the Devil and his demons.

Not for human beings.

It is possible for human beings to go there. They go there, not for their sins, but for not believing in Jesus Christ and the power of His mercy to save them from even the very worst sins.

What this means is, that if Jeffrey Dahmer believed, or wanted to believe, in the mercy of Jesus Christ, and if he did things that signified his sincerity, then there is a good chance that he is in Heaven.

If Jeffrey Dahmer (or Hitler, or Pol Pot) is in Heaven, he is no longer doing the horrible things that he did when he was living on the earth. He has been changed (most likely via Purgatory) into what God had originally designed him to be, before things went horribly wrong and he started doing horrible things.

These are a lot of big huge "if"s though. We can have no way of knowing whether he had a conversion, and if he did, whether it was sincere, or not. I’d like to hope that he did.

You say this with complete assurance and nothing can be assured. I still don’t believe no one goes to hell…sorry…

 

[jmcrae]

You say this with complete assurance and nothing can be assured. I still don’t believe no one goes to hell…sorry…

I never said “nobody goes to Hell” - just that they only go to Hell for doubting God’s mercy. If Dahmer relied upon God’s mercy, then he is in Heaven.

This means that Hell is more likely to contain agnostics, scoffers, and religious bigots than mass murderers. But hopefully they, too, rely on God’s mercy in the end, as well.

 

[Jimmy_B]

These are my own personal opinions, based on my own experiences, having been a Catholic my entire life and having been around Catholics my entire life -

I have been around long enough to know that… usually, “the greater the sin…the greater the guilt, shame and remorse associated with confessing that sin”’. In other words, the more serious the sin, the more humbling the experience associated with being truly remorseful.

In court, a person’s apparent lack of remorse, often times results in a greater sentence.

Saying your “sorry” doesn’t always mean… you’re“sorry”. .

People don’t usually break down and cry when confessing the “small” sins, like missing Mass. However, when people are away from the Catholic Church for a while, their first confession when returning… is a “doozy”.

I believe that when people confess the “big ones” they are initially more “afraid” and more ashamed then when they confess the “small ones”.

People, who do finally decide to confess to a very serous sin, are almost overwhelmed by the experience. The process of reconciling with God after committing a serious sin is extremely humbling.

I don’t remember seeing Dahmer breaking down and weeping, because of his sins… I don’t remember hearing about Dahmer reaching out to his victims and their families because of any guilt that he may have experienced. What I saw, was a “cocky”, disinterested, indifferent evil man, who showed absolutely no remorse.

What I saw in the courtroom, was a man who appeared to be sorry for having be “caught” and who faced the Death Penalty. I did not see a man who appeared truly ashamed and remorseful for his sins.

I cannot know what was truly in his heart… but to me, his actions did not show the remorse one would expect, considering the seriousness of his crimes…

Do you understand what I am saying here? Is there anyone else here who shares my opinion?

 

[jmcrae]

I wasn’t present in the courtroom so I have no way of knowing what he looked like or what he said. I never saw it on TV either, but I know enough about TV that they can edit anything to look like whatever they want. They could have cut out any footage of him crying, for example.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Reports indicate that Dahmer murdered 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with the majority of the murders occurring between 1989 and 1991. His murders were particularly gruesome, involving rape, necrophilia and cannibalism.

Jeffrey Dahmer was charged with 17 counts of murder, which were ultimately reduced to 15, prior to his trial. .

Why didn’t he confess to all of his murders…why didn’t he confess to all of his crimes… if he was truly remorseful?.

Only when it a apparent that the evidence presented against him at trial was overwhelmingly, did Dahmer finally plead “not guilty by reason of insanity”.

In my opinion, his plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, was his attempt to circumvent justice, as was his “desire” to be “born-again”, while in prison… I believe he was looking for loopholes.

I don’t know if he is in hell or not…but he sure seems like an excellent candidate.

That’s my opinion.

 

[Cathdefender]

I am with you on this one Jimmy…if Dahmer isn’t in hell then, who is in hell?

 

[jmcrae]

I am with you on this one Jimmy…if Dahmer isn’t in hell then, who is in hell?

Why do you need for someone to be in Hell? How does it benefit you?

I should think that all of us who want to go to Heaven would want to see other people being saved and redeemed, rather than going to Hell, so that we can think that we have some kind of chance of making it, ourselves.