elvisman:
sighs
Here we go again…
1: "My problem with you is that the official name of the Church is “The Catholic Church” and you refuse to accept it.
“The Roman Catholic Church” does not appear on any document as the official name of the Church. Your problem is that you are living in denial."
Answer: What does and does not appear on any document is not relevant. What IS relevant is what is actually the case - and this is where you and I disagree.
If all Lutheran churches worldwide banded together and called this mega-assembly of churches “The Catholic Church”, would you then accept it and use that term?
Not likely!
2: “The reason I asked how old you were is because I couldn’t believe that somebody who has had the time to study Church history would deny that all of the Protestant churches are divorced factions of the Catholic Church - directly or by divorced succession. At 24, you should know better.
Most Protestant theologians, including R.C. Sproul agree with this fact - but you would know better because . . . ??”
Answer: Please tell me where I said that protestant churches do not have their roots in the Roman-Catholic church?
I have pointed out several times that the following is what I believe (and lo and behold: I am about to do it again!):
Imagine a tree. Doesn’t matter what kind.
This tree is the Catholic Church. Not, however, in the way you automatically assume.
I am saying that what you call “The Catholic Church” is in fact the largest branch on that tree. It is part of the tree, but not the tree itself.
There are other branches on the tree (the different protestant denominations and the Eastern-Orthodox), and all are part of the same tree.
So, what I am saying is:
The Roman-Catholic church is NOT the same as “The Catholic Church”. “The Catholic Church” is the worldwide community of true belivers, from all denominations, tongues, peoples, and cultures.
3: “PS - How is Matt. 16:16-19 a weak argument? Please enlighten me”
As Banquo said to MacBeth: “Very gladly”
3,1:
Let’s look at the context, shall we? Read Matt 16:21-23.
So: Peter is also satan. Which would make satan the “rock” on which the Church is build?
Rubbish and nonsense!
But how can Jesus call Peter both “Rock” and “Satan” only a few sentences apart?
There are two possibilities:
1: The above rubbish and nonsense is true, because Christ spoke to Peter personally in both cases.
2: The above IS rubbish and nonsense, because Christ responded to Peter’s words in both cases. Therefore, Peter was not satan, but satan used Peter to try to get to Jesus. And similarly - Peter is not the rock on which the Church stands, but the faith he professed is!
3,2:
Now, let’s look at the Greek text:
“καγω δε σοι λεγω οτι συ ει πετρος και επι ταυτη τη πετρα οικοδομησω μου την εκκλησιαν και πυλαι αδου ου κατισχυσουσιν αυτης”
(“and I say to you: You are Petros and on this rock…”)
The thing to notice here is the fact that the subject complement is NOT the same gender as the prepositional phrase. The subject complement (πετρος) is masculine, and the prepositional phrase
(επι ταυτη τη πετρα) is feminine, which can easily be seen by the feminine ending -α.
If the prepositional phrase also referred to Peter, it would have been the same gender.
And I could move on to the rest of the NT, where Peter, although one of the leaders of the church in Jerusalem, does not seem to have infallible status, nor any kind of “primacy” over the early Church. Indeed, he is summoned by “the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea” and held to account for preaching to Cornelius!
Can anyone demand that the vicar of Christ explains himself to him?
And could Paul publically refute Peter’s mistake, as he does in Gal 2:11-14.
Do you want me to continue?
Basically what you just said it that you don’t think God would save someone based on them crying out to God, confessing their sin, repenting, and asking God to help them live a Christian life. You know, that is part of what God’s mercy IS, that He saves people who turn to Him and repent and then follow Him. If admitting you are a sinner and begging God for mercy and Asking for help to follow Him is “a cute little incantation” I’d hate to hear what you think of the Liturgy! Just like another poster said… look at Jonah… He was mad that God saved that town when they repented, after all, they were BAD PEOPLE. The Great Physician didn’t come to for the ones who weren’t sick.
But you better be sure you’re not contradicting other teachings of the Magisterium in the process.
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