Is Jesus a real person?

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Anyone have any good reliable historical eveidence that Jesus was a real person? Been hearing alot of debates that Jesus was just another version of a mythical mystery religion God. Any info appreciated, i believe but Lord help my unbelief. Thx
 
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Almost all atheists agree Jesus was a real person, just not the son of God. We do not need proof to believe, doubting Thomas needed proof and Jesus said “blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”
 
There are non-Christian, 1st-century writers attesting of his existence, whose texts are still known to us : Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, Josephus, Tacitus…

Flavius Josephus in particular has left us what is now known as the Testimonium Flavianum (“the witness of Flavius”), a passage of his book The Antiquities of the Jews (XVIII,3,3) which reads :
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
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Note that the authenticity of the whole of this passage is contested. Most scholars today agree that it has now significant ulterior interpolations by Christians, but they also agree that there was an original nucleus, whose exact reconstitution is disputed but which, in any case, would at the very least have referenced the crucifixion by Pilate of a man called Jesus.

Josephus also mentions the imprisonment and execution of John the Baptist (XVIII,5,2) and that text is important because it differs enough from New Testament accounts that it is probable Josephus had different sources from the New Testament redactors (meaning he got his informations, about John the Baptist and not unlikely also about Jesus, outside of the first Christian communities) :
Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod’s army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man… Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion… Accordingly he was sent a prisoner, out of Herod’s suspicious temper, to Macherus, the castle I before mentioned, and was there put to death.
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  1. look at historical writings from the 1st century.
  2. There is no way this small little band of people(Christians), could survive the persecution and grow and change the world in every aspect for 2000 years without divine help.
  3. Look at all the tie-ins from old testament and new testament. There is no way people could have made the “made up” stories of the bible with all the connections. e.g Mary tied to Genesis, Exodus, Gospels, and Revelations(The woman, new eve, arc of the covenant, etc…)…
Just my two cents, oh wait government took one cent…
 
My advice: Stop listening to those voices of discord and division. Pay no attention to them. They corrode your faith - which is exactly what the evil one desires.

Our Lord’s existence is extremely well documented by the eyewitnesses and secular authorities.

Pay no attention to them!
 
Jesus promised that He would leave us a “sign” or miracle to prove that He was indeed the Jewish Messiah, and that sign was to be the Sign of Jonah. In the Gospel of Matthew this miracle is described as being connected to His burial, and the miracle of His burial is the vanishing of His corpse. It was not in the tomb when the seal was broken and the stone rolled away. His promise was that the Sign would be available for a “generation,” meaning a great number of people.

You may see this sign today. It is His miraculous image on His burial cloth, and it is proof that He was a real person and and that He died just as described in the Gospels.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/issues...-latest-evidence-will-challenge-the-sceptics/
 
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patro said:
Anyone have any good reliable historical eveidence that Jesus was a real person? Been hearing alot of debates that Jesus was just another version of a mythical mystery religion God. Any info appreciated, i believe but Lord help my unbelief. Thx
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You mean besides numerous written accounts that for any other figure in human history would be considered as acceptable proof of a person’s existence? Not ripping on you, just on so-called historians who accept ancient documentary evidence for every other historical figure as reasonable evidence, but set aside the same historical tools for Christ.
 
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Hearing a lot of debates? Now you’re sinking as Peter did, and Peter was actually walking on water with Jesus right there!

Maybe read the life of Padre Pio who was in our midst very recently, and ask him to pray for you. Many remarkable events took place because of him, while he was still alive.
 
I think this is correct. My understanding is that from a historical perspective, as opposed to a religious perspective, there is sufficient evidence that most historians believe that Jesus existed as a real person. History cannot answer the theological question as to his divinity.
 
An interesting side note is that the Catholic church recorded baptisms, marriages and deaths and because of this, recorded generations of people who have had their turn here. They were the early record keepers through the centuries.

Funny how people want historical proof of Jesus being an actual person. Who was taking records of persons born, married, and death back then? What records would survive all these centuries? ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ is pretty vague. It also misses the point that he is the Son of God who took on flesh and his coming is in the Old Testament. Saints doing miracles followed through the centuries.

If someone doesn’t want to accept that Jesus was an actual person, too bad for them. They are missing out on the best adventure ever, having God as their father, and impacting this world for good. That’s why we’re here.

Today is like being in the Superbowl and we are having our turn on the field. We are taking the hits, trying to advance down the field, and all the cameras are covering the action, all the saints are in the stands cheering for us. The folks who won’t believe the good news of Christ are on the sidelines, looking at their phone, ignoring that a game is even going on. People come up to them and pull on their arm and say Come ON! We NEED you in here helping! and they get pushed away and shushed. At some point the game will be over, and the winners will head to the dressing room to celebrate. The guy who looked at his phone the whole time won’t be invited to celebrate with those who took the hits, who held ground, who ran hard. Heaven is waiting for us. Stay in the game, get your head on straight.
 
You really got me started now. lol
My grandparents raised their families out on the cold Canadian prairies in the 1920’s. They lived in a log cabin, no electricity or running water. They took a horse and wagon to walk to town to get supplies in the fall because they were snowed in for the winter. In the spring when the snow was gone, there was a priest who went on horseback and visited these homesteaders, asked who was born over the winter, who died, and he recorded the information. I’m not sure if he baptized the newest baby, but likely.

We can’t imagine the hardship of life, and just back in the 1920s. The service of men and women who dedicated their lives to serve others under difficult conditions is remarkable. We can’t imagine it while we sip our coffees and work at a lap top. Having someone ‘demand proof’ that Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago seems laughable to me.

Perhaps mention the beautiful apron of Our Lady of Guadalupe that has survived the centuries and is a remarkable record of an event that happened long ago.
 
TMC said:
I think this is correct. My understanding is that from a historical perspective, as opposed to a religious perspective, there is sufficient evidence that most historians believe that Jesus existed as a real person.
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Yes, this question has come up on a non-religious group full of agnostics and atheists that I frequent (it’s a hobby group). I think me and one other guy were the only believers out of maybe 200 people who responded, but virtually everybody with a University education said, “I’m an atheist/ unbeliever etc. but there is definitely historical proof that a man named Jesus lived and was crucified under Pilate.” The ones saying he was fiction tended to be the less educated members of the group, and some of the atheists were telling them they were wrong, LOL.

Wikipedia also states in the “Historicity of Jesus” article that his existence is generally accepted, although there is debate over the details of his life and of course over the theology associated with him.

 
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patro said:
Anyone have any good reliable historical eveidence that Jesus was a real person?
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Even Today, only very few ‘historians’ deny His existence…

And in the First Millenium … way closer to His Time - virtually no one denied His existence.

Far better to get to Know His Teachings - Via The Gospel and NT
)
 
patro said:
Anyone have any good reliable historical eveidence that Jesus was a real person? Been hearing alot of debates that Jesus was just another version of a mythical mystery religion God. Any info appreciated, i believe but Lord help my unbelief. Thx
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http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexisthub.php

Lots of good stuff there.

One additional thing to note, which is Celsus. Celsus was a second-century critic of Christianity who wrote a book attacking the religion. Now we don’t have a copy of it anymore, but we do have Origen’s very lengthy refutation of it, found here, so we can see what Celsus’s arguments were. To my knowledge, Celsus never makes the argument that Jesus did not exist. Surely, if it were reasonable to believe that Jesus didn’t exist, Celsus (who lived much closer to the time of Jesus than we do and would had much better access to documents to prove he did not exist) would have made this argument.

While someone could say that maybe Celsus did make the argument and Origen didn’t respond to it, some of the arguments Celsus does make show he thought Jesus was a historical person, such as when he claims that the virgin birth was a lie to cover up the truth that Mary had an affair with a Roman soldier named Panthera (this is discussed in the aforementioned work by Origen in Book I, Chapter 32). Now Celsus’s assertion here seems quite tenuous–it appears to be based entirely on what a single Jew told him–but the point is that he clearly believed Jesus was an actual person or else he couldn’t have been the result of adultery!
 
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thank you,that makes alot of sense.

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JSRG
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    January 15
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) patro:
Anyone have any good reliable historical eveidence that Jesus was a real person? Been hearing alot of debates that Jesus was just another version of a mythical mystery religion God. Any info appreciated, i believe but Lord help my unbelief. Thx
Click to expand...
http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexisthub.php

Lots of good stuff there.

One additional thing to note, which is Celsus. Celsus was a second-century critic of Christianity who wrote a book attacking the religion. Now we don’t have a copy of it anymore, but we do have Origen’s very lengthy refutation of it, found here, so we can see what Celsus’s arguments were. To my knowledge, Celsus never makes the argument that Jesus did not exist. Surely, if it were reasonable to believe that Jesus didn’t exist, Celsus (who lived much closer to the time of Jesus than we do and would had much better access to documents to prove he did not exist) would have made this argument.

While someone could say that maybe Celsus did make the argument and Origen didn’t respond to it, some of the arguments Celsus does make show he thought Jesus was a historical person, such as when he claims that the virgin birth was a lie to cover up the truth that Mary had an affair with a Roman soldier named Panthera (this is discussed in the aforementioned work by Origen in Book I, Chapter 32). Now Celsus’s assertion here seems quite tenuous–it appears to be based entirely on what a single Jew told him–but the point is that he clearly believed Jesus was an actual person or else he couldn’t have been the result of adultery!
 
you cans strach of the jesus was another version of a pagan god , that has been debuked countless times
as the ideas of chirstianity are unique of jewish and have no pagan conotations in fact they had things that pagans hated
like the ide of bodily resurection .
 
thank you

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OddBird
Code: 
    January 14
There are non-Christian, 1st-century writers attesting of his existence, whose texts are still known to us : Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, Josephus, Tacitus…

Flavius Josephus in particular has left us what is now known as the Testimonium Flavianum (“the witness of Flavius”), a passage of his book The Antiquities of the Jews (XVIII,3,3) which reads :
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
Click to expand...
Note that the authenticity of the whole of this passage is contested. Most scholars today agree that it has know significant ulterior interpolations by Christians, but they also agree that there was an original nucleus, whose exact reconstitution is disputed but which, in any case, would at the very least have referenced the crucifixion by Pilate of a man called Jesus.

Josephus also mentions the imprisonment and execution of John the Baptist (XVIII,5,2) and that text is important because it differs enough from New Testament accounts that it is probable Josephus had different sources from the New Testament redactors (meaning he got his informations, about John the Baptist and not unlikely also about Jesus, outside of the first Christian communities) :
 
patro said:
Anyone have any good reliable historical eveidence that Jesus was a real person?
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For a boatload of reasons - He’s acknowledged to have existed -
even by not just a few who do not accept Jesus as their Messiah.

IMO, Wiser than spending time seeking that out…
would be to get to know His Mind via His Teachings
to the best of ones’ ability.

)
 
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