Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[wmscott]

PART TWO

So from the CCC LINK

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.” 272

272 CITED TEXT:

Unitatis redintegratio 3

Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life-that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ’s Catholic Church, which is “the all-embracing means of salvation,” that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God’s gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.

NOTES
19. Cf. 1 Cor. 11, 18-19; Gal. 1, 6-9; 1 Jn. 2, 18-19.
20. Cf. 1 Cor. 1, 11 sqq; 11, 22.
21. Cf. CONC. FLORENTINUM, Sess. VIII (1439), Decretum Exultate Deo: Mansi 31, 1055 A.
22. Cf. S. AUGUSTINUS, In Ps. 32, Enarr. 11, 29: PL 36, 299.
23. Cf. CONC. LATERANENSE IV (1215) Constitutio IV: Mansi 22, 990; CONC. LUGDUNENSE II (1274), Professio fidei Michaelis Palaeologi: Mansi 24, 71 E; CONC. FLORENTINUM, Sess. VI (1439), Definitio Laetentur caeli: Mansi 31, 1026 E.

 

[wmscott]

PART THREE

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” 273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” 274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, 275 and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.” 276

273 CITED TEXT:

Lumen gentium 8 § 2

This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.

NOTES
74. Jn. 21, 17.
75. Cf. Mt. 28, 18, f.
76. 1 Tim. 3, 15.
Supplementary notes (*)
(12) Cfr. Symbolum Apostolicum: Denz. 6-9 (10-13); Symb. Nic.-Const.: Denz. 86 (150), coll. Prof. fidei Trid.: Denz. 994 et 999 (1862 et 1868).
(13) Dieitur. Saneta (catholica apostolica) Romana Ecelesia .: in Prof. fidei Trid., 1. c. et Concl. Vat. I, Sess. III, Const. dogm. de fide cath.: Denz. 1782 (3001).

274 CITED TEXT:

Unitatis redintegratio 3 § 2

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

Lumen gentium 15

The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth.

Supplementary notes (*)
(14) Cfr. Leo XIII, Epist. Apost. Praeclara gratulationis, 20 iun. 1894; AAS 26 (1893-94) p. 707.
(15) Cfr. Leo XIII, Epist. Encycl. Satis cognitum, 29 iun. 1896: *** 28 (1895-96) p. 738. Epist. Encycl. Caritatis studium, 25 iul. 1898: *** 31 (1898-99) p. 11. Pius XII, Nuntius radioph. Nell’alba, 24 dec. 1941: AAS 34 (1942) p. 21.
(16) Cfr. Pius XI, Litt. Encycl. Rerum Orientalium, 8 sept. 1928: AAS 20 (1928) p. 287. Pius XII, Litt. Encycl Orientalis Ecclesiae, 9 apr. 1944: AAS 36 (1944) p. 137.
(17) Cfr. Inst. S.S.C.S. Officii 20 dec. 1949: AAS 42 (1950) p.142.

 

[wmscott]

PART FOUR

275 CITED TEXT:

Unitatis redintegratio 3

Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life-that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ’s Catholic Church, which is “the all-embracing means of salvation,” that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God’s gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.

NOTES
19. Cf. 1 Cor. 11, 18-19; Gal. 1, 6-9; 1 Jn. 2, 18-19.
20. Cf. 1 Cor. 1, 11 sqq; 11, 22.
21. Cf. CONC. FLORENTINUM, Sess. VIII (1439), Decretum Exultate Deo: Mansi 31, 1055 A.
22. Cf. S. AUGUSTINUS, In Ps. 32, Enarr. 11, 29: PL 36, 299.
23. Cf. CONC. LATERANENSE IV (1215) Constitutio IV: Mansi 22, 990; CONC. LUGDUNENSE II (1274), Professio fidei Michaelis Palaeologi: Mansi 24, 71 E; CONC. FLORENTINUM, Sess. VI (1439), Definitio Laetentur caeli: Mansi 31, 1026 E.

 

[wmscott]

PART FIVE

276 CITED TEXT:

Lumen gentium 8

Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)

This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.

Just as Christ carried out the work of redemption in poverty and persecution, so the Church is called to follow the same route that it might communicate the fruits of salvation to men. Christ Jesus, “though He was by nature God . . . emptied Himself, taking the nature of a slave”,(77) and “being rich, became poor”(78) for our sakes. Thus, the Church, although it needs human resources to carry out its mission, is not set up to seek earthly glory, but to proclaim, even by its own example, humility and selfsacrifice. Christ was sent by the Father “to bring good news to the poor, to heal the contrite of heart”,(79) “to seek and to save what was lost”.(80) Similarly, the Church encompasses with love all who are afflicted with human suffering and in the poor and afflicted sees the image of its poor and suffering Founder. It does all it can to relieve their need and in them it strives to serve Christ. While Christ, holy, innocent and undefiled(81) knew nothing of sin,(82) but came to expiate only the sins of the people,(83) the Church, embracing in its bosom sinners, at the same time holy and always in need of being purified, always follows the way of penance and renewal. The Church, “like a stranger in a foreign land, presses forward amid the persecutions of the world and the consolations of God”(14*), announcing the cross and death of the Lord until He comes."(84) By the power of the risen Lord it is given strength that it might, in patience and in love, overcome its sorrows and its challenges, both within itself and from without, and that it might reveal to the world, faithfully though darkly, the mystery of its Lord until, in the end, it will be manifested in full light.

NOTES
73. Cf. Eph. 4, 16.
74. Jn. 21, 17.
75. Cf. Mt. 28, 18, f.
76. 1 Tim. 3, 15.
77. Phil. 2, 6.
78. 2 Cor. 8, 9.
79. Lk. 4, 18.
80. Lk. 19, 10.
81. Hebr. 7, 26.
82. 2 Cor. 5, 21.
83. Cf. Hebr. 2, 17.
84. Cf. 1 Cor. 11,26.
Supplementary notes (*)
(9) Leo XIII, Litt. Encycl. Sapientiae christianae, 10 ian. 1890 AAS 22 (1889-90) p. 392. Id., Epist. Encycl. Satis cognitium, 29 iun. 1896; AAS 28 (1895-96) pp. 710 ct 724 ss. Pius XII, Litt. Eneyel. Mystici Corporis, 1. c., pp. 199-200.
(10) Cfr. Pius XII, Litt. Encycl. Mystici Corporis, 1. c., p. 221 ss. Id., Lin. Encycl. Humani genesis, 12 Aug. 1950: AAS 42 (1950) p. 571.
(11) Leo XIII, Epist. Encycl. Satis cognitum, 1. c., p. 713.
(12) Cfr. Symbolum Apostolicum: Denz. 6-9 (10-13); Symb. Nic.-Const.: Denz. 86 (150), coll. Prof. fidei Trid.: Denz. 994 et 999 (1862 et 1868).
(13) Dieitur. Saneta (catholica apostolica) Romana Ecelesia .: in Prof. fidei Trid., 1. c. et Concl. Vat. I, Sess. III, Const. dogm. de fide cath.: Denz. 1782 (3001).
(14) S. Augustinus, Civ. Dei, XVIII, 51, 2: PL 41, 614.

**My apologies for such a long post, but I want to make sure that those who do not know, that our Protestant brothers and sisters are Christians and are also afforded salvation without being a “Card Carrying Catholic” **

 

[Publisher]

agreed. all salvation is through the grace and mercy of God in Christ… but how is that Grace appropriated. thru His Church. so yes Church affiliation has something to do with it. and it takes the cooperation of the one being saved. i for one, would not want to entrust my salvation to my own ideas and opinions. the Lord set up the Papacy, and the magesterium. this way we have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. and for 2000 years, they have not failed in their commision. Peace

Actually I can’t understand how one would not want to “entrust my salvation to my own ideas and opinions…” The thought of giving up my God-given right to seek Him with my whole heart, which has led me to the Society of Friends, to another human being and believe as I am told to believe…to “conform my will” to that of the church…I shudder.

I revel in this Freedom to seek the One who loves me most and knows me best and discover new and exciting ideas and “expressions” of encountering the Eternal…even in my mistakes I learn.

I do believe the Holy Spirit guides us in Truth…but we “see through a glass darkly”…we only view Shadows and Muted Images of Truth…God is Beyond and Within…He is a Present Teacher.

 

[benidict]

Actually I can’t understand how one would not want to “entrust my salvation to my own ideas and opinions…” The thought of giving up my God-given right to seek Him with my whole heart, which has led me to the Society of Friends, to another human being and believe as I am told to believe…to “conform my will” to that of the church…I shudder.

I revel in this Freedom to seek the One who loves me most and knows me best and discover new and exciting ideas and “expressions” of encountering the Eternal…even in my mistakes I learn.

I do believe the Holy Spirit guides us in Truth…but we “see through a glass darkly”…we only view Shadows and Muted Images of Truth…God is Beyond and Within…He is a Present Teacher.

thank you for your candid response my friend. i guess that is the way it goes. for myself, i have found much more freedom, within the boundaries and confines of the Church. i have given up nothing, and have gained much more. also i need not walk in the darkness of my own limited mind to understand the scriptures, or the ways of the Lord. he left a Government here on earth, that is guided by the Holy Spirit. i will pray for you on your journey. and i welcome the prayers of anyone on my behalf. Peace to you and yours

 

[Publisher]

thank you for your candid response my friend. i guess that is the way it goes. for myself, i have found much more freedom, within the boundaries and confines of the Church. i have given up nothing, and have gained much more. also i need not walk in the darkness of my own limited mind to understand the scriptures, or the ways of the Lord. he left a Government here on earth, that is guided by the Holy Spirit. i will pray for you on your journey. and i welcome the prayers of anyone on my behalf. Peace to you and yours

We can lift one another before the Lord. Peace to you as well.

 

[Metamorphoo]

I believe there is absolutely no salvation outside the apostolic Roman Catholic Church, period. No long-winded, convoluted dissertations on how “Outside the Church there is no salvation” really means “Outside the church there is salvation”; no twisting of the dogma into a meaningless formula with inadequate explanations like “EENS just means all salvation is through Christ & the Church but one does not have to be a ‘card-carrying’ Catholic to be saved”. I believe the dogma the way the popes defined it, and that leads me to believe in order to be saved one must be a full-fledged, baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church and firmly adhere to all of her beliefs to be saved.

While I don’t agree with your position regarding the salvation of non-Catholics, I can appreciate your forthrightness in addressing what you call the “convoluted dissertations.” I must confess that the shift in the RCC’s position since Vatican II does strike me as stretching the meaning of “outside the Church there is no salvation.”

 

[down_under]

I believe there is absolutely no salvation outside the apostolic Roman Catholic Church, period. No long-winded, convoluted dissertations on how “Outside the Church there is no salvation” really means “Outside the church there is salvation”; no twisting of the dogma into a meaningless formula with inadequate explanations like “EENS just means all salvation is through Christ & the Church but one does not have to be a ‘card-carrying’ Catholic to be saved”. I believe the dogma the way the popes defined it, and that leads me to believe in order to be saved one must be a full-fledged, baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church and firmly adhere to all of her beliefs to be saved.

interesting. Do you understand that baptism can be performed by anyone. They do not HAVE to be a priest. and that for a very long time protestant baptisism have been excepted valid by our good catholic church. There are many card carring members of the church that are not in physicial communion with the catholic church. and this is the whole point. This is why the question has become convoluted with a long explaination necessary. So long as the person doing the baptising desired to do what catholics desire to do when they baptise the baptism IS a catholic one.

 

[JJHIII]

salvation is indeed through Jesus Christ. However He did say, “if you love Me then keep My commandments.” Are His commandments not mediated through a Church that He instituted?

Salvation is indeed by faith in Christ! But not faith alone. Even the demons knew Jesus was the Son of God yet this did not nor will it save them. Action on our part must be taken. Otherwise it is simply enough to sit on your couch and say, “i believe in Jesus and He has saved me.”

What then are these actions we must take? They are outlined in the one institution that Christ Himself established, and the Holy Spirit guides to this day…that is the Roman Catholic Church.

This is purely my opinion on what “could” be the case.
Those that have never been given the chance to research and join this Church but have honestly sought God…may possibly be given mercy through long stays in the fires of Purgatory. Those who have access to learning and exploring Catholicism (that is not listening to what preachers wrongly say about Catholicism), and they do not or they do not except it…would probably have a much harder time making it. Those that leave the Church will probably not make it.

Just my thoughts…keeping in mind that as humans we truly cannot judge because none of us are truly worthy of Heaven. However, this is how i can see it happening

-JJ

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Upon reading the thread title I approve 100% of half of the statement:

**Is Jesus Christ **and the Roman Catholic Church **the only way to salvation? **

 

[Jimmy_B]

Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

Your thoughts?

 

[me_again]

Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

Your thoughts?

Yes, only through the Lord Jesus Christ may a person enter His kingdom. For example, if a Buddhist from the year 3000 BC enters Jesus’ kingdom, it is through Jesus, even if the Buddhist never heard of Jesus.

 

[SnakeMauler]

Jesus IS the only way to salvation, but that doesn’t mean we should be so bold to say who he will choose to be saved. We can only follow the wAys of churches with Apostolic sucession And valid sacraments And hope for the best.

 

[Publisher]

If a Catholic goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.

If a Protestant goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.

If a Buddist, Muslim or a (insert your choice here) goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.

If a heathen who has never heard of Christianity goes to heaven, it is through Jesus.

Jesus alone is the Judge who judges the hearts of all men and He alone determines who will enter His kingdom. It is, after all, His kingdom!!!

Indeed! It is through Christ’s astoundikng mercy and grace which redeems humanity…not a religious organization.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Indeed! It is through Christ’s astoundikng mercy and grace which redeems humanity…not a religious organization.

I agree that our hope in salvation comes from Jesus Christ. However, without the early Church, the early Catholic Church, a “religious organization”, we would not know about Jesus Christ and we would not have the Bible today… right?

 

[Publisher]

I agree that our hope in salvation comes from Jesus Christ. However, without the early Church, the early Catholic Church, a “religious organization”, we would not know about Jesus Christ and we would not have the Bible today… right?

Christianity suceeded as far as it did BECAUSE of the structure and beliefs of the Orthodox/Catholic groups…along with Oriental Orthodox and others…there were other groups that competed with the “proto-orthodox/catholics” for supremacy. They did not have it in their belief system or were too ascetic in nature to embrace the government.

I do not believe Constantine’s embrace of Christianity was anything more than a political tactic to unify the Roman Empire when the population was nearing over half being “Christian”…one form or another of Christianity had huge followings…Constantine saw in the “orthodox/catholic” group a source of “unity” under a single religious belief. It was this need at unity that caused him to call the Counsil of Nicea to “hammer out” those competing beliefs prevelant at that time in Rome.

Those who called themselves “bishops” had layed the ground work for decades upon decades among their version of Christianity to keep the various “proto-orthodox/catholic” congregations connected…now he had one of the best information networks at his disposal…the “church”.

No doubt those collection of books which we call the Bible may not have come down to us in present form…but the idea of “canon” was first introduced in the early 2nd century by Marius, deemed a “heretic” by the “orthodox”. I’m sure the collection of scriptures would be different today if the proto-orthodox/catholic group had not gained prominence over the other competing groups of “people called Christians.”

 

[Jimmy_B]

Christianity suceeded as far as it did BECAUSE of the structure and beliefs of the Orthodox/Catholic groups…along with Oriental Orthodox and others…there were other groups that competed with the “proto-orthodox/catholics” for supremacy. They did not have it in their belief system or were too ascetic in nature to embrace the government.

I do not believe Constantine’s embrace of Christianity was anything more than a political tactic to unify the Roman Empire when the population was nearing over half being “Christian”…one form or another of Christianity had huge followings…Constantine saw in the “orthodox/catholic” group a source of “unity” under a single religious belief. It was this need at unity that caused him to call the Counsil of Nicea to “hammer out” those competing beliefs prevelant at that time in Rome.

Those who called themselves “bishops” had layed the ground work for decades upon decades among their version of Christianity to keep the various “proto-orthodox/catholic” congregations connected…now he had one of the best information networks at his disposal…the “church”.

No doubt those collection of books which we call the Bible may not have come down to us in present form…but the idea of “canon” was first introduced in the early 2nd century by Marius, deemed a “heretic” by the “orthodox”. I’m sure the collection of scriptures would be different today if the proto-orthodox/catholic group had not gained prominence over the other competing groups of “people called Christians.”

Nice post and I agree with most of what you have written here. Then again, I agree with a lot of things that you write here. I think we agree on far more things in Christianity, than we disagree… Thank you for your post.

 

[Moro_Rock]

**Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?/

Your thoughts?**

In John Ch. 17 Jesus prays to His Father ’ that they may all be one " Clearly unity of belief , purpose and practise is God’s will for His Church .
We know that God is not a God of confusion
He spent three years teaching and preparing the twelve Apostles and the disciples to take over the running of His Church and to bring the Good News to the whole world .
Paul was persecuting the early Christians . When he heard the voice of Jesus speaking to him the words he heard were " Why are you persecuting Me ? " So God is identifying the Church with Himself . The Church is the continuation of Christ on earth until the end of time . We have not been guaranteed immunity from scandals and sinners just as one of His Chosen Twelve betrayed Him .
The Sacraments are the channels of God’s grace available to all. And where else is the promise of " Emmanuel , God with us " fulfilled except in the Tabernacle of a Catholic Church ?":shamrock2:

 

[me_again]

Indeed! It is through Christ’s astoundikng mercy and grace which redeems humanity…not a religious organization.

It’s true that we can only enter the kingdom of heaven through Jesus**;** however, it is Christianity that presents the knowledge of Jesus and the oracles of God to a lost and dying world**;** and within Roman Catholicism, there appears to be what Catholic’s call “Sacred Tradition,” which is basically apostolic tradition e.g. what the apostles said and did that has been passed from them to use for over 2000 years. It doesn’t mean that a Quaker or any other such denominational member is barred from heaven (oh no!!!). The original blessings of the original church are still reverberating around the globe. Was the Catholic Church the original church that Jesus started? Or was the original church Protestant?

I know that Protestants broke away from Catholicism for various reasons, to include allegations of corruption or abuse of power. Even if priests and bishops become corrupt, the sacraments may still be administered by them because it’s the method that the Lord chose to spread the gospel around the globe after His death on the cross.

Regarding corrupt priests and bishops who may still administer the sacraments**:** There may also be corrupt Protestant preachers who are dynamic speakers who “preach the Word” where unsaved people actually get saved!!!

Those who fleece the flock, whether they be Catholic or Protestant ministers, will be judged the hardest at the end of the age. I feel sorry for them. They don’t know what they’re doing, just like Judas Iscariot didn’t know what he was doing – until it was too late. Wolves tend to use the flock for their sustenance i.e. the wool provides warmth and the flesh provides food for the wolves. That’s why there are wolves in sheeps clothing within all denominations i.e. so they can fit in with the sheep to feed and clothe themselves.