Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[peary]

If you think not, then you need to refer to your catechism. Those in non-Catholic ecclesiastical communities that are validly baptized are considered our brethren in Christ. Granted, they are improperly joined to the One Body, because they reject various degrees of the Teachings of Christ. The Church teaches that there are not "churches’ but only One Church, One Body.

Oh, you have no disagreement from me on that. But the question that the Church had to ask is: are the baptisms valid, meaning, are they legitimate? And the answer is, yes, if they are baptized in the Triune God. Second question, if these baptisms are valid, then are they offered grace to be saved? And the answer is, because of a valid baptism, which cleanses the soul and infuses it with sanctifying grace, yes. Third question, do they then know Jesus Christ? The answer is, because they have the Church’s Scripture, yes, they have the opportunity to know Christ, though an imperfect knowing because they are separated from Christ’s Church. Fourth question: if they are ignorant or unknowledgeable that salvation is gained only through the Catholic Church, are they held accountable for this thereby negating their salvation? The answer is: no. Both Vatican I and Vatican II tackled this problem which was resolved in the above understanding.

 

[Ron21]

Islam teaches that throughout human history, there were many Prophets (peace be upon them all) sent to many nations and all of them brought the Message of God with them.

During the time of Prophet Noah (pbuh), he was the only way to salvation.

During the time of Prophet Abraham (pbuh), he was the only way to salvation.

During the time of Prophet Moses (pbuh), he was the only way to salvation.

During the time of Prophet Jesus (pbuh), he was the only way to salvation.

And did Prophet Jesus (pbuh) say that someone would come after him bringing again the Message of the Lord showing the only way to salvation from then on?

youtube.com/watch?v=Ui71HaLm-2M

You have a poor understanding of the bible…no of the prophets you mention with the exception of Jesus claimed to be the way to god…

 

[mikew262]

. Only the Catholic church is the one true Christian religion, the others came afterwards and are to be considered as outsiders, for they do not believe 100% in what Jesus taught. .

Oh c’mon! The Catholic Church is the only true Christian religion? I’m Catholic and I don’t buy that nonsense. The Protestant denominations are just as Christian as us, they just worship Christ in different ways. If they follow Christ’s teachings to the best of their ability and believe he is the Son of God, they are Christians, pure and simple.

It is just plain sad that we have Catholics who think this way. Unfortunately, some Protestant denominations think the same way about Catholics; that we are just plain idol worshiping heretics who bear no resemblance to true Christians. To think this about each other is non-productive, egotistical, and childish.

Leave the “I’m better than you are” mindset in the school yard.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Peary, I used to think as you do, trying to unify Catholics with protestants, yet they clearly are different religions and are not of the Church Christ formed. Only the Catholic church is the one true Christian religion, the others came afterwards and are to be considered as outsiders, for they do not believe 100% in what Jesus taught. Even basic elements, such as baptism, comunion, confession, etc. are largely rejected by protestants, they are to be considered as the heathen, for they are not part of the church, nor ever will until they become Catholic and turn away from their old beliefs.

It’s hard to hear, I know, but it’s the truth and believe me, I’ve tried my absolute best to create some form of unity, only to be kicked in the teeth by them in the first place.

Along God, of course they, including jews and muslems beleive in the same one as we, but the rejection of Christ is the pivotel element which seperates them from him, for no man comes to the father except through Christ, no if and’s or buts, and if you reject Christs church, you are rejecting him.

I isn’t hard for me to hear or understand…

 

[peary]

Oh c’mon! The Catholic Church is the only true Christian religion? I’m Catholic and I don’t buy that nonsense. The Protestant denominations are just as Christian as us, they just worship Christ in different ways. If they follow Christ’s teachings to the best of their ability and believe he is the Son of God, they are Christians, pure and simple.

It is just plain sad that we have Catholics who think this way. Unfortunately, some Protestant denominations think the same way about Catholics; that we are just plain idol worshiping heretics who bear no resemblance to true Christians. To think this about each other is non-productive, egotistical, and childish.

Leave the “I’m better than you are” mindset in the school yard.

It’s not a matter of “I’m better than you are.” It’s a matter of having the opportunity to have and understand the fullness of Faith for our salvation. If by saying that Protestant denominations are “just as Christian”, what exactly do you mean by this? Are they Christians because they follow what they know about Christ as revealed in Scripture (which is incomplete)? Yes, they may worship Christ in “different ways” but do they possess a Divine Liturgy with the Eucharist? And what of those denominations who do not baptize legitimately? By the way, the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination.

 

[mikew262]

It’s not a matter of “I’m better than you are.” It’s a matter of having the opportunity to have and understand the fullness of Faith for our salvation. If by saying that Protestant denominations are “just as Christian”, what exactly do you mean by this? Are they Christians because they follow what they know about Christ as revealed in Scripture (which is incomplete)? Yes, they may worship Christ in “different ways” but do they possess a Divine Liturgy with the Eucharist? And what of those denominations who do not baptize legitimately? By the way, the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination.

Whoever follows Christ’s teachings as they understand them, believe him to be the Son of God and that he died for our sins is Christian, period. End of story.

As far as the Catholic Church not being a denomination, we’ve been over that already. While technically you are correct, in common everyday language, we are thought of as a denomination of Christianity. It doesn’t bother me in the least, it’s just semantics.

 

[peary]

Whoever follows Christ’s teachings as they understand them, believe him to be the Son of God and that he died for our sins is Christian, period. End of story.

As far as the Catholic Church not being a denomination, we’ve been over that already. While technically you are correct, in common everyday language, we are thought of as a denomination of Christianity. It doesn’t bother me in the least, it’s just semantics.

Very shallow thinking on your part.

 

[distracted]

Do you understand now?

I forgot the original issue… Too “distracted”… etc…

Please refresh my memory…

 

[mikew262]

Very shallow thinking on your part.

Shallow or sensible and realistic? However, if you would like to elaborate, be my guest.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Oh c’mon! The Catholic Church is the only true Christian religion? I’m Catholic and I don’t buy that nonsense. The Protestant denominations are just as Christian as us, they just worship Christ in different ways. If they follow Christ’s teachings to the best of their ability and believe he is the Son of God, they are Christians, pure and simple.

It is just plain sad that we have Catholics who think this way. Unfortunately, some Protestant denominations think the same way about Catholics; that we are just plain idol worshiping heretics who bear no resemblance to true Christians. To think this about each other is non-productive, egotistical, and childish.

Leave the “I’m better than you are” mindset in the school yard.

Here is what I’ve found out in my research and dealings with the protestants, especially with all of these “new” splits from even their own groups. It’s big business, it’s about power and control, it’s about an individual, or small group of people wanting to be in charge and it’s about rejecting anything that’s Catholic. You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe in the doctrins and official cannons, this is exactly what they do though. We even have different flavors of the Catholic church for those that want to break from the traditional format, so they can’t even place that element onto the table.

The reformation was about rebellion, not about unity. It’s clearly stated in regards to those that reject the Catholic church, that they are to be treated as outsiders, as heathen and that is simply that. The bottom line, and I’ve said this before, the Catholic church was the “ONLY” church formed by Christ himself, if Christ decided he wanted all of these other denominations, he would have formed them from the beginning, clearly he did not, and he stated even more clearly how the church is to be united as one. These splits are not united, not to the Christs church, not among themselves, and not even among their own clergy. We have people converting to Catholicism for this very reason, they see the division, the corruption, the mindless banter over irrelavent details, and they see how their past churches are headed by man, and not by Christ.

Try to say they are all the same, as much as you want, you are fooling yourself, it’s not true, believe me, I wish it was, but it’s not. There are too many fundamental teachings and values they have rejected, even from Jesus’s own teachings directly, how can they be considered of the same accord to those that follow “all” of Christs teachings and Christs church? What about the saints and marters, were their efforts and presence in vain? According to the protestants, they have no value at all, what a shame, all I can say, I’m not even going to get into what they think about Mary…

 

[sodak]

Here is what I’ve found out in my research and dealings with the protestants, especially with all of these “new” splits from even their own groups. It’s big business, it’s about power and control, it’s about an individual, or small group of people wanting to be in charge and it’s about rejecting anything that’s Catholic. You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe in the doctrins and official cannons, this is exactly what they do though. We even have different flavors of the Catholic church for those that want to break from the traditional format, so they can’t even place that element onto the table.

The reformation was about rebellion, not about unity. It’s clearly stated in regards to those that reject the Catholic church, that they are to be treated as outsiders, as heathen and that is simply that. The bottom line, and I’ve said this before, the Catholic church was the “ONLY” church formed by Christ himself, if Christ decided he wanted all of these other denominations, he would have formed them from the beginning, clearly he did not, and he stated even more clearly how the church is to be united as one. These splits are not united, not to the Christs church, not among themselves, and not even among their own clergy. We have people converting to Catholicism for this very reason, they see the division, the corruption, the mindless banter over irrelavent details, and they see how their past churches are headed by man, and not by Christ.

Try to say they are all the same, as much as you want, you are fooling yourself, it’s not true, believe me, I wish it was, but it’s not. There are too many fundamental teachings and values they have rejected, even from Jesus’s own teachings directly, how can they be considered of the same accord to those that follow “all” of Christs teachings and Christs church? What about the saints and marters, were their efforts and presence in vain? According to the protestants, they have no value at all, what a shame, all I can say, I’m not even going to get into what they think about Mary…

Well put, Brian, thanks!

 

[peary]

Shallow or sensible and realistic? However, if you would like to elaborate, be my guest.

It IS important to make the distinction that Catholic Christians do NOT belong to a denomination but are an intergral part of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church founded by Christ on earth. It is an historic entity, his Body on earth, and WE are a part of it.
You fall for the protestant error that mere belief in Christ makes one a Christian no matter what denomination, and that it not true. Faith is much more than mere belief, and a proper understanding of that Faith is important. You cannot love what you do not know. Your approach is shallow because it attempts to hide the obvious differences under a rug. It is not sensible because it is relativistic - you are implying that there are many truths rather than the revealed Truth. It is not realistic because it is the wrong approach.

 

[mikew262]

Here is what I’ve found out in my research and dealings with the protestants, especially with all of these “new” splits from even their own groups. It’s big business, it’s about power and control, it’s about an individual, or small group of people wanting to be in charge and it’s about rejecting anything that’s Catholic. You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe in the doctrins and official cannons, this is exactly what they do though. We even have different flavors of the Catholic church for those that want to break from the traditional format, so they can’t even place that element onto the table.

The reformation was about rebellion, not about unity. It’s clearly stated in regards to those that reject the Catholic church, that they are to be treated as outsiders, as heathen and that is simply that. The bottom line, and I’ve said this before, the Catholic church was the “ONLY” church formed by Christ himself, if Christ decided he wanted all of these other denominations, he would have formed them from the beginning, clearly he did not, and he stated even more clearly how the church is to be united as one. These splits are not united, not to the Christs church, not among themselves, and not even among their own clergy. We have people converting to Catholicism for this very reason, they see the division, the corruption, the mindless banter over irrelavent details, and they see how their past churches are headed by man, and not by Christ.

Try to say they are all the same, as much as you want, you are fooling yourself, it’s not true, believe me, I wish it was, but it’s not. There are too many fundamental teachings and values they have rejected, even from Jesus’s own teachings directly, how can they be considered of the same accord to those that follow “all” of Christs teachings and Christs church? What about the saints and marters, were their efforts and presence in vain? According to the protestants, they have no value at all, what a shame, all I can say, I’m not even going to get into what they think about Mary…

The Reformation happened because of perceived corruption in the Catholic Church, and I’m sure there was to a certain degree. I stand my previous post, IMO, just because non-Catholic Christians worship God somewhat different they we do doesn’t make them any less Christian.

I believe the Catholic Church comes the closest to what Christ had in mind, but that doesn’t mean Protestants are lost. I believe many a Protestant may get to heaven before some of us Catholics. IMO, it’s whats in the heart that really matters, not what Church they go too.

BTW, the just as many, if not more folks, are leaving the Church than joining. Sad, but true.

 

[mikew262]

It IS important to make the distinction that Catholic Christians do NOT belong to a denomination but are an intergral part of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church founded by Christ on earth. It is an historic entity, his Body on earth, and WE are a part of it.
You fall for the protestant error that mere belief in Christ makes one a Christian no matter what denomination, and that it not true. Faith is much more than mere belief, and a proper understanding of that Faith is important. You cannot love what you do not know. Your approach is shallow because it attempts to hide the obvious differences under a rug. It is not sensible because it is relativistic - you are implying that there are many truths rather than the revealed Truth. It is not realistic because it is the wrong approach.

No, I believe you have the wrong approach, which you share unfortunately with many of our fellow Catholics. Equally unfortunate, many Protestants feel the same way about us Catholics and thats wrong as well. Only God knows who is a true believer and Christian and who isn’t, but there many here on earth who have apparently made that decision for him.

While the Catholic Church is indeed the largest Christian group (I’ll use group since you have a problem with denomination), this doesn’t mean they have monopoly on the term Christian or God’s blessings. Many non-Catholic Christians are very devout in their love and worship of Christ and to hint they are somehow less in God’s eyes than catholics is just plain wrong.

There is nothing wrong with having pride at being Catholic and if thats how you want to worship God, then that’s great, but don’t disrespect your fellow Christians just because they have selected a somewhat different path than you in following Christ.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Here is the short answer "Yes, I’m saved – over, and over, and over again through baptism and the renewal of my baptismal vows and by asking for and receiving forgiveness when I go astray.”

God Bless!

 

[jenelrose]

Even if some Catholics equate the teaching of the Church I cited from the CCC as “anyone no matter what can be saved”, they are wrong. The Church is merely saying that the decision as to who will be saved belongs to God, not us. It is a statement about God’s mercy not a “get out of hell free” card for non-Catholics.

**Anyone can be saved by God’s grace and mercy. The decision as to if someone is saved is God’s decision alone. I am not going to tell someone from another religion that they are not saved because they do not believe in Christ. God may have saved them by some means I do not know. It is not my decision and it’s not my job to make that judgment on someone. That decision and that job is God’s and God’s alone. This is very different from saying that non-Catholics are using a “get out of hell free” card. It is saying that God’s mercy is so vast and so incredible that, He can and will provide a way for non Christians to be saved when He determines that is just and appropriate. **

 

[jenelrose]

1. Three Popes (at least) say no salvation outside the RC Church. The CCC seems to indicate otherwise, in some cases.

**Thank you for pointing out that the CCC does indicate otherwise in some cases. I went on a retreat once and we talked about how often grace needs to be “unpacked” overtime. I would view our understanding of the methods of salvation being along that lines, which could explain the contradiction.

Also, I would point out that the three Popes that are quoted as to saying there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church all lived before the Protestant reformation of 1517. The Church was one at that point so I’m not sure they could speak to Protestantism.

God Bless,

Jenelrose**

 

[peary]

No, I believe you have the wrong approach, which you share unfortunately with many of our fellow Catholics. Equally unfortunate, many Protestants feel the same way about us Catholics and thats wrong as well. Only God knows who is a true believer and Christian and who isn’t, but there many here on earth who have apparently made that decision for him.

While the Catholic Church is indeed the largest Christian group (I’ll use group since you have a problem with denomination), this doesn’t mean they have monopoly on the term Christian or God’s blessings. Many non-Catholic Christians are very devout in their love and worship of Christ and to hint they are somehow less in God’s eyes than catholics is just plain wrong.

There is nothing wrong with having pride at being Catholic and if thats how you want to worship God, then that’s great, but don’t disrespect your fellow Christians just because they have selected a somewhat different path than you in following Christ.

Mike -
In previous posts (here or in other forums) I have always upheld the personal conviction that those who are separated from the Catholic Church yet who have had a valid baptism share in a life of grace as well as being offered salvation. It is true that Christians who are members of the Catholic Church are the largest Christian ‘group’ making up the Body of Christ on earth. It is also true that many nonCatholic Christians are very devout in their worship and devotion to Christ. This certainly does not mean that they are any ‘less’ than we are; in fact, many protestants put Catholic Christians to utter shame by their life examples (again, they share in a life of grace due to their baptism). No one is suggesting that anyone has made God’s decision for Him when it comes to salvation.

But I also maintain that the Catholic Church has been given the ‘fullness’ of the Faith (the complete Revelation of Christ) for salvation. Does this mean that all Catholic Christians will gain entry into the Kingdom? Absolutely not. God’s love surpasses our own understanding and only God has the ability to read the human heart. Most protestants have been “born into” their denomination and do not understand the Church’s mission here on earth, or how it relates to the Church Triumphant or the Church Suffering. Most of them do not ‘choose’ their denomination. What I have an issue with are Catholic Christians who have left the Church and who reject Catholic teaching on Faith and moral stands. This goes beyond ‘choosing’ a different path; it is rejecting the path all together.

 

[jmcrae]

There is nothing wrong with having pride at being Catholic and if thats how you want to worship God, then that’s great, but don’t disrespect your fellow Christians just because they have selected a somewhat different path than you in following Christ.

This makes it sound like there could be more than one choice of path. There is only one path to Heaven; it is the Catholic Church.

People are more or less joined to the Catholic Church according to how much of the truth they believe, and how sincere they are in seeking Christ as best they can. Every human being on earth is at least somewhat joined with the Catholic Church. Protestants even more so because they are baptized and they participate in Scripture study.

 

[mikew262]

Mike -
In previous posts (here or in other forums) I have always upheld the personal conviction that those who are separated from the Catholic Church yet who have had a valid baptism share in a life of grace as well as being offered salvation. It is true that Christians who are members of the Catholic Church are the largest Christian ‘group’ making up the Body of Christ on earth. It is also true that many nonCatholic Christians are very devout in their worship and devotion to Christ. This certainly does not mean that they are any ‘less’ than we are; in fact, many protestants put Catholic Christians to utter shame by their life examples (again, they share in a life of grace due to their baptism). No one is suggesting that anyone has made God’s decision for Him when it comes to salvation.

But I also maintain that the Catholic Church has been given the ‘fullness’ of the Faith (the complete Revelation of Christ) for salvation. Does this mean that all Catholic Christians will gain entry into the Kingdom? Absolutely not. God’s love surpasses our own understanding and only God has the ability to read the human heart. Most protestants have been “born into” their denomination and do not understand the Church’s mission here on earth, or how it relates to the Church Triumphant or the Church Suffering. Most of them do not ‘choose’ their denomination. What I have an issue with are Catholic Christians who have left the Church and who reject Catholic teaching on Faith and moral stands. This goes beyond ‘choosing’ a different path; it is rejecting the path all together.

I really have no problem with what you said till the last sentence.

Is it really rejecting or taking a path they feel is more correct and puts them closer to God?