Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[peary]

We ultimately agree. There is a fundamental thread in all of us, though often unseen, that links us to eachother. The word Catholic means “all things to all people”.

**The Greek roots of the term “Catholic” mean “according to (kata-) the whole (holos).” **
The whole ‘what’?
According to the “whole Church”. It does not mean “all things to all people.”

Certainly not some, or a few, but all people. Even some pretty dark characters…who by mercy can be saved by repenting and agknowledgement of their sins.

In my mid age I have come to see some of the links of God wanting to leave a pillar of flame for us as a reality. And we are to be a lamp to others who this flame has not been revealed yet. For some mysterious reason I believe. It is not an easy process because there are many stumbling blocks in the world…

I think this larger picture view gives a person of faith the ability to respect people of other situations and denominations

Through the mystical Body of Christ, which is cornerstoned by the Catholic Church… well without carrying on too much, as stated, everyone falls within the circle of the Catholic Church.

Only if they have a valid Baptism (Triune) can they be considered authentically ‘christian’.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

19 Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible.

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law - though I myself am not under the law - to win over those under the law.

21 To those outside the law I became like one outside the law - though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ - to win over those outside the law.

22 To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.

23 All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

I wills stand by my definition that Catholic means “All things to All People”. I have read this in the front cover of the Catholic Catechism. As well, I have heard many references of the same by the priestly functions. I did not mean its literal definition as parsed by Greek origins although I am duely impressed with your knowledge of that.

Not providing anything contrary to your baptism stipulation. You are correct, gotta have that. The mercy of God and Christ is not purely contained in these religious rights however as a baptism of the will and the kindness of those not Christian by baptism may find favor with God.

 

[peary]

19
I wills stand by my definition that Catholic means “All things to All People”. I have read this in the front cover of the Catholic Catechism. As well, I have heard many references of the same by the priestly functions. I did not mean its literal definition as parsed by Greek origins although I am duely impressed with your knowledge of that.

Not providing anything contrary to your baptism stipulation. You are correct, gotta have that. The mercy of God and Christ is not purely contained in these religious rights however as a baptism of the will and the kindness of those not Christian by baptism may find favor with God.

It’s a cute personal definition of the word - “all things to all people” - but that is not the meaning of the word. It means “according to the whole” Church. That is what Ignatius of Antioch understood by it; that is what the early Church Fathers understood by the term. “Catholic” is one of the four spiritual marks of the Church: the Church is ONE, the Church is HOLY, the Church is CATHOLIC, the Church is APOSTOLIC. One cannot separate these and expect the meaning to be held true.

 

[SimonArizona]

wow, I was taught from apologetic books that the word Catholic as used by Ignatius means Universal. Following Christ’s command to make disciples of “all nations”.

wikipedia also says Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective ‘καθολικός / katholikos’, meaning “general; universal” A letter written by Ignatius to Christians in Smyrna [1] around 106 is the earliest surviving witness to the use of the term “Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8). By “Catholic Church” Ignatius designated the Christian Church in its universal aspect, excluding heretics, such as those who disavow “the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again”

 

[SimonArizona]

The Church knows no other means of salvation but through the Sacraments God has given her, yet God himself is not bound to His Sacraments.
we ought to keep in mind that God’s mercy is above our limited minds.

 

[Brian_Millar]

19 Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible.

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law - though I myself am not under the law - to win over those under the law.

21 To those outside the law I became like one outside the law - though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ - to win over those outside the law.

22 To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.

23 All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

I wills stand by my definition that Catholic means “All things to All People”. I have read this in the front cover of the Catholic Catechism. As well, I have heard many references of the same by the priestly functions. I did not mean its literal definition as parsed by Greek origins although I am duely impressed with your knowledge of that.

Not providing anything contrary to your baptism stipulation. You are correct, gotta have that. The mercy of God and Christ is not purely contained in these religious rights however as a baptism of the will and the kindness of those not Christian by baptism may find favor with God.

I like this, I have recently even quoted it to someone else a short while ago. What this is saying, don’t just get in someones face and demand from them, you will be looked upon as an outsider, this does not gain their trust, in fact, just the opposite.

 

[SimonArizona]

Because all protestants are offshoots of offshoots of the Catholic church and because the Word of God they hold in their hand was written by the Catholic Church, assembled and given to the world by the Catholic Church, since the original source of their faith in Christ is the Catholic Church, since the name of Jesus was preached in the world and brought to all men by the Catholic Church AND since when the ignorant follow their good conscience towards God they are following the promptings of the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son. I am going to answer YES. Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation because He opened the gates of heaven by his atoning sacrifice. I am going to say YES to the Catholic Church being the only way to salvation because the protestants are holding her in their hands and don’t realize it. All men know the name of Jesus because of the Church’s obedience to Jesus’s command to make disciples of all nations and baptise them in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Without Jesus there would be no salvation, without His church there would be no message of salvation. As far as those who deny the Son, may God have mercy on you. amen.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

It’s a cute personal definition of the word - “all things to all people” - but that is not the meaning of the word. It means “according to the whole” Church. That is what Ignatius of Antioch understood by it; that is what the early Church Fathers understood by the term. “Catholic” is one of the four spiritual marks of the Church: the Church is ONE, the Church is HOLY, the Church is CATHOLIC, the Church is APOSTOLIC. One cannot separate these and expect the meaning to be held true.

Boy, Whatever. I appreciate your expansion of knowledge.

There is a fair amount of expansion on what it means to be Catholic (defining and definitions)

They should probably take that out the Catholic Catechism book that I have then. You might want to take that up with the authors. It is sanctioned and approved by the Roman Catholic Church…I am very comfortable with it and it exudes wisdom and truth.

I could care less if it is cute or not… its accurate and a clear assessment of St.Pauls Approach. It is a very savvy approach. I doubt your hurling definitions at the pagans is going to change any minds.Nor is cute a personal hitch for me. I think it is a smart approach so that your are able to get in touch with the people you are trying bring to Christ.

In a very truthful sense the Catholic Church is all truth to all people because its teachings are ultimately instructions of Christ himself. Therefore, by parallel proof it is all things to all people or all truth to all people, all light to all people, These could all be correct truthful definitions of what the Catholic Church is along with your more scholarly definition.

I didn’t just fall off a stump and come up with this…

 

[BiblicalDavid]

The Church knows no other means of salvation but through the Sacraments God has given her, yet God himself is not bound to His Sacraments.
we ought to keep in mind that God’s mercy is above our limited minds.

I like your comments Simon

 

[peary]

wow, I was taught from apologetic books that the word Catholic as used by Ignatius means Universal. Following Christ’s command to make disciples of “all nations”.

wikipedia also says Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective ‘καθολικός / katholikos’, meaning “general; universal” A letter written by Ignatius to Christians in Smyrna [1] around 106 is the earliest surviving witness to the use of the term “Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8). By “Catholic Church” Ignatius designated the Christian Church in its universal aspect, excluding heretics, such as those who disavow “the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again”

Exactly! “According to the whole”

 

[CBS]

Lower case catholic just means “universal,” not the Catholic Church. It’s just a term for the Body of Christ, his believers, no matter what denomination.

As far as baptism goes, you should, but I doubt it’s requirement for salvation. The criminal on the cross next to Jesus on Calvary was neither baptized or in the Catholic Church and yet Jesus promised him heaven for believing he was the Son of God and his Savior.

I plan to convert, but I would never believe those outside the Catholic Church who believe in Jesus Christ do not have salvation. Salvation should not be routed through the Church.

 

[peary]

I plan to convert, but I would never believe those outside the Catholic Church who believe in Jesus Christ do not have salvation. Salvation should not be routed through the Church.

I wonder how Jesus feels about that. After all, He was the one who suffered, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended, and then brought forth the Church by Divine Mandate of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. That specific Church is still the Catholic Church. And the Church doesn’t teach per se that there is no salvation outside of her depending on circumstance as well as what a person has in his or her heart, and what God judges in that respect.

 

[CBS]

I wonder how Jesus feels about that. After all, He was the one who suffered, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended, and then brought forth the Church by Divine Mandate of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. That specific Church is still the Catholic Church.

Well I’m not Jesus and neither is anyone else so we don’t know. However, narrowing salvation down to one church would be a bit extreme for a man of love who died for our sins.

And the Church doesn’t teach per se that there is no salvation outside of her depending on circumstance as well as what a person has in his or her heart, and what God judges in that respect.

Well “per se” is a very fine line.

 

[jmcrae]

Well I’m not Jesus and neither is anyone else so we don’t know. However, narrowing salvation down to one church would be a bit extreme for a man of love who died for our sins.

If Jesus meant for us to be saved by means of any religion we happen to like, rather than by means of the one religion that teaches us the full truth about Him, then why did He specifically establish the Catholic Church, without at the same time establishing any others?

Also, is there any indication anywhere in Scripture that we can create a self-made religion that teaches false things about Jesus for the sake of convenience (ie: so that we can divorce and remarry, for example) and still be saved?

 

[kathielee]

If you look at the articles of the Catholic faith they clearly state that being Catholic is not the only way to achieve salvaton. A pagan who has lived a good life and done good things toward his fellow man can find salvation. People of different faiths and religions can find salvation through similar contributions and good heartedness. The Catholic faith is a gift that is breathed into us by the Holy Spirit and it is only by him that grace is sustained. Granted, there is tremendous benefit for becoming Catholic in that it gives you the tool kit (sacraments) left by and instituted by Jesus Christ himself as a pillar of flame in the darkness and challenges of the world and with sin. These sacraments are miracles on earth left for our benefit and to live without them in other faiths is to a disadvantage for salvation because they bring Catholics closer to God and purify their faults. There are certainly instances in the bible that reflect the importance give to the “Bread of Life” described by Christ. “If you do not eat the bread of life you will not have life in you”

If you are not Catholic, give it some consideration. The simple receiving of the blessed sacrament (only once) before you die can be enough to give you a straight shot into paradise. Christ will live in your temple.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Heavy sigh :crying: The Catholic Church is the fullness of the faith. The Catholic Church doesn NOT presume to judge the heart and soul of anyone…that would be a sin of presumption. If one wants the fullness what Jesus taught, then the Catholic Church is the place to be. If someone wants to write their own rules according to what is comfortable to believe, then the Catholic Faith would not fit your bill. As a protestant brought by the Holy Spirit into the Catholic Church, I would say that there is NO way on God’s green earth that I would choose to be part of any faith other than the one that Christ started.

Kathie

 

[jmcrae]

Lower case catholic just means “universal,” not the Catholic Church. It’s just a term for the Body of Christ, his believers, no matter what denomination.

Actually, at the time that it came into use, it was specifically used to exclude the heretics.

As far as baptism goes, you should, but I doubt it’s requirement for salvation.

According to Jesus, it normally is.

The criminal on the cross next to Jesus on Calvary was neither baptized or in the Catholic Church and yet Jesus promised him heaven for believing he was the Son of God and his Savior.

The purpose of Baptism is in order to enter into the death of Christ on the Cross. The thief on the cross was already enduring death by crucifixion, so he did not need to enter spiritually into Christ’s death by means of baptism.

I plan to convert, but I would never believe those outside the Catholic Church who believe in Jesus Christ do not have salvation. Salvation should not be routed through the Church.

If you don’t believe that Christ established the Church for our salvation, what is your reason for converting?

 

[kathielee]

Actually, at the time that it came into use, it was specifically used to exclude the heretics.

According to Jesus, it normally is.

The purpose of Baptism is in order to enter into the death of Christ on the Cross. The thief on the cross was already enduring death by crucifixion, so he did not need to enter spiritually into Christ’s death by means of baptism.

If you don’t believe that Christ established the Church for our salvation, what is your reason for converting?

Truly, this is true!! The very last thing we need is another cafeteria Catholic !! Kathie

 

[CBS]

If Jesus meant for us to be saved by means of any religion we happen to like, rather than by means of the one religion that teaches us the full truth about Him, then why did He specifically establish the Catholic Church, without at the same time establishing any others?

Jesus exists anywhere believers gather. Whether I believe the Catholic Church is the true Church or not does not in any way forfeit salvation for those outside the Church.

How is that any better than Protestants believing Catholics are condemned for their beliefs?

Jesus transcends churches.

Also, is there any indication anywhere in Scripture that we can create a self-made religion that teaches false things about Jesus for the sake of convenience (ie: so that we can divorce and remarry, for example) and still be saved?

I know of nowhere in scripture where salvation is conditional by being routed through a church. Salvation is entirely dependent on Jesus.

 

[kathielee]

Jesus exists anywhere believers gather. Whether I believe the Catholic Church is the true Church or not does not in any way forfeit salvation for those outside the Church.

How is that any better than Protestants believing Catholics are condemned for their beliefs?

Jesus transcends churches.

I know of nowhere in scripture where salvation is conditional by being routed through a church. Salvation is entirely dependent on Jesus.

Of course you don’t know! You have not read the letters that Ignatius of Antioch wrote to John, the Apostle…yes, Ignatius IS in the Bible. You haven’t read anything between Jesus’ resurrection and the first 300 years thereafter. Try it. But, be careful…when you do, you will know the truth and then you really will have to convert to Catholicism.

The “Catholic” term was begun before John the Apostle died, by the way.

What you know about this fits in a thimble.

Kathie

 

[sodak]

Jesus exists anywhere believers gather. Whether I believe the Catholic Church is the true Church or not does not in any way forfeit salvation for those outside the Church.
That’s up to Jesus.

Jesus transcends churches.

In what way?

I know of nowhere in scripture where salvation is conditional by being routed through a church. Salvation is entirely dependent on Jesus.

Yes, it’s dependent upon Jesus. The Church which he founded is his bride. Do you recall Jesus talking about people that say, “Lord, Lord”, and him replying that he never knew them? Guess what happens to them on judgement day? We are called to be obediant to Jesus. And that means being faithful to his Church.

It’s not Jesus OR the Church. It’s Jesus AND his Church. I’m amazed that people still don’t understand that.