Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[jmcrae]

What these verses say to me is that everybody sins. God does not allow sin into Heaven. There has to be a death payment for sin. Jesus made that death payment and all we have to do is accept it, like accepting a gift.

Yes, exactly. We go to receive this free gift and unpack it whenever we go to Confession.

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are** ye saved through faith**; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Quite so, which is why we go to Confession and make a sincere Act of Contrition instead of sacrificing an animal of some kind.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

**John 6:47 **
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 14:15 - “If ye love me, ye shall keep my commandments.”

 

[RealEstateCarol]

Where do you see confession in these verses?

 

[guanophore]

Where do you see confession in these verses?

Welcome to CAF Carol. Catholics do not form doctrine by pulling out a few verses. We relate the whole of the Divine Deposit of faith together, and in this way we understand the Teaching of Jesus more fully.

We read these verses in the context in which they were written, that of the early church.

We also look at what each and every passage says on this topic, and relate them all together. Jesus gives the Apostles the authority to forgive or retain sins. How did you expect this to happen, if they did not know what the sins were? People had been confessing their sins from the time of John the Baptist (probably before that in communities like the Essenes).

 

[RealEstateCarol]

Please show me verses that say we need confession to be saved. also show me what these verses are really saying.

 

[jmcrae]

Please show me verses that say we need confession to be saved. also show me what these verses are really saying.

Jesus established the Sacrament of Reconciliation (called “Confession” for short) in two stages. First, He demonstrated that He had human authority to forgive sins. We see this in Mark 2:1-12.

Mark 2

1And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.

2And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

3And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.

4And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

6But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

9Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

10But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

11I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

12And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

After having established His human authority to forgive sins, Jesus then passed on this same authority to His Apostles.

Matthew 16:19​

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18​

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:19-23

19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

 

[RealEstateCarol]

That is all talking about church discipline.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

You still haven’t explained why those verses say salvation is by faith.

 

[jmcrae]

That is all talking about church discipline.

Even if that’s all it is, if the Apostles made a discipline that said that people should go to Confession (which we know they did and we believe that they did so because they were given this Sacrament by Jesus Himself), then shouldn’t people obey them, and go to Confession, even if it’s “just” a discipline?

Of course as a Catholic I believe it’s a lot more than a discipline - I believe that it’s a Sacrament - but even if I only thought it was a discipline, I’d still do it - after all, I abstain from meat on Fridays, even though I consider that to be “just” a discipline.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

True. And?

You still haven’t explained why those verses say salvation is by faith.

Faith is to do what we ought to do (including obey the commandments and the disciplines of the Church) because we love God.

 

[RealEstateCarol]

Ok…

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[jmcrae]

Ok…

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

All of these things are true, and we Catholics believe them wholeheartedly.

Are you under the mistaken impression that Confession is a “work” or that it has something to do with the Torah Law? Because it doesn’t.

What happens in Confession is that the priest helps you to approach Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

You know how in some churches, they have an “altar call” and the people go forward, accept Jesus as their saviour, and confess their sins?

Well, that’s what Confession is like, except that you do it in private with the priest alone, instead of in front of all those people, and instead of only doing it once, you can do it as many times as you want to.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

Years ago, before i was catechized, i was involved in a situation that involved serious sin (big long story)… This one Catholic guy who was more stable… told me that it was a good thing i got out of the situation because if i hadn’t, i could have died & gone to Hell… I didn’t know diddly then about Purgatory but i instinctively responded: “I would have gone to Purgatory, not to Hell…”
I hate to sound like a Protestant but i " knew" that because i had accepted Christ years ago and never renounced him or intentionally separated myself from him, that I was not going to go off to eternal damnation… I had always tried, albeit in my own pathetic way, to live a Christian life… I was just ignorant… (young… Same thing )

I guess my point is that human beings instinctively believe in a place of purging, a place that is not Heaven, not Hell… even when they haven’t been taught one thing about the doctrine of Purgatory (and i had not been…). Of course, i had been raised Catholic, but all we did was attend Mass on Sun and… well, trust me, we were never catechized… I had to catechize myself when i got older…

Thank you for sharing your story. Very interesting.

A lot of people have a problem with the idea of Purgatory. I have certainly run into my share while going to college and bumping into Campus Crucaders from time to time. Given some of their questions and challenges, I have read a considerable amount about the place based on Church Doctrine, Sermons of particular saints on the subject, and writings of approved Catholic mystics. From a personal standpoint. I have no problems at all with the idea. When you look at the the hodgepodge of humanity from borderline nasty dark person to saint there is a whole gammut inbetween. By the love of Christ, and his Triune character, I do not think that those in this “window of opportunity” are all ready to see and experience the beatific vision. I have full expectations of spending some time in Purgatory given the Loving Lord’s judgement to my affirmative.

I have always been unsure why others do not accept it but think it has to do with a false sense of richeousness rather than a humble assessment of your true self.

I rejoice in your new found knowledge of the doctrines of the Church. I find in them personal consolation and love rather than the punishment. Granted, it doesn’t sound like much fun overall but the interesting part is that the physical sufferings depicted are not nearly as challenging as being in the beatific state and presence of God and then having to live without it per your time there. We only get small glimmers of this on earth when our spirit begins to long for God.

I hope that you have found the richness, the layers, and the beauty of the Catholic faith in your catechetical journey. Sometimes it is mind boggling.

My faith story is different than yours. My mother in particular was a strong influence on my faith and I have always had "an ear’ for the theology of the church for some reason. Perhaps it has to do with sitting in a rural farm house basement with my family when I was in first grad and feeling the house vacuumize a bit as a moderately strong tornado passed by at 3 or 4 am. That can put a certain amount of Holy fear into a person. There were some lightning swift rosaries put in that night by everyone. I have had my ups and downs over life but am grateful for the rock solid foundation my mother vested in me.

Probably anothe big hurdle for some is the idea of The Mother of God.

One of the greatest “PASS GO COLLECT 100 DOLLARS” stories of the Catholic faith is to love the mother of God as my might think that Jesus would have. Sorry, spun out on some Monopoly lingo there… but the secret to bypass large quantities of Purgatory is to find favor with the Mother of God, whom Jesus can not refuse.

Luke 1: 46 thru 55 are a sublime proof of this because the words of Mary excude a love for God.

46"My soul doth glorify the greatness of the Lord;

47 my spirit rejoices in God my savior.

48 For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.

49 The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

50 His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.

51 He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.

52 He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.

53 The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.

54 He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,

55 according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever."

 

[RealEstateCarol]

Confession is not a requirement for salvation. The only thing we need to do to get to Heaven is accept the payment Jesus made.

 

[rinnie]

Confession is not a requirement for salvation. The only thing we need to do to get to Heaven is accept the payment Jesus made.

the words bind and loose mean whomever you exclude form communion will be excluded from communion with God. When you receive communion you reunite with him. Reconciliaion with the church is inseparable from reconcilation with God. In imparting his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the church. To say we dont need confession is to take the scripture I will give you the keys… and totally ignore it. Jesus gave these apostles this power for a reason. to reunite us with him.

 

[Lampo]

Romans 3:10
As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one.

Yet, James 5:16 says that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much. If absolutely no one is righteous, then who is James talking about? Luke chapter 1 says that Elizabeth and Zechariah were righteous before God. If absolutely no one is righteous, then how can that be? The key to understanding Romans 3:10 is the phrase, “it is written.”

Here in Romans, Paul is quoting from the O.T., Psalm 14 to be exact. In Psalm 14 it says, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God. They are corrupt…there is none that does good.’” But then that same psalm goes on to talk about the “righteous.” Well, if none has done good, who are these righteous the psalm is talking about? Obviously, when the psalmist says that none has done good, he is talking about the fools who say there is no God. He is not talking about absolutely everyone.

Just so Paul when he quotes from this psalm. Paul is not saying absolutely no one is righteous, if he was, then how do you explain all the Old and New Testament passages that refer to the righteous? In Romans 3:11 it says that no one seeks for God. Does that mean that absolutely no one is seeking God? No, to interpret it that way would be ludicrous!

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Babies haven’t sinned, have they? Little children haven’t sinned, have they? No! This is not an absolute. There are exceptions. What about John the Baptist? Did he sin? Scripture says that he was filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. Can someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit his entire life ever sin? It’s something to think about.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What is the body of Christ? The Church.

**John 3:16 **
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So all one has to do is believe? You don’t even need to love Jesus? If you cherry-pick verses like this, one could glean that all you need to do is believe in Jesus to have eternal life. Does Satan believe in Jesus?

**John 6:47 **
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

"Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” John 6:53

 

[Lampo]

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

"Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” John 6:53

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

"Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” John 6:53

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Does Satan believe in Jesus?

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

“See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” - James 2:24

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

“See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” - James 2:24

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith
So can a person be righteous or not?

In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to “confess our sins to one another.” Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God…it says confess your sins to one another.

In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to “men”…plural.

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.

 

[Lampo]

That is all talking about church discipline.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Was Moses a mediator between God and man? Have you ever prayed for someone? If yes, then you were a mediator between God and man.

 

[jmcrae]

Was Moses a mediator between God and man? Have you ever prayed for someone? If yes, then you were a mediator between God and man.

Just a small nitpick - actually, you were an intercessor. Moses was also an intercessor; not a mediator.

Jesus is, in fact, the only mediator between God and Man, because He alone gives us the Sacraments (the priest is the intercessor who transmits them from Him to us) and He alone died on the Cross for our sins, and He alone, by rising from the dead, opened the gates of Heaven to the human race.

But to be a mediator is not the same thing as to be an intercessor, and the Church abounds with intercessors of every different kind - the Saints in Heaven, the priest on the altar or in the Confessional, the child praying his rosary, the young woman praying the Scriptures, and so on.

 

[Lampo]

Just a small nitpick - actually, you were an intercessor. Moses was also an intercessor; not a mediator.

Jesus is, in fact, the only mediator between God and Man, because He alone gives us the Sacraments (the priest is the intercessor who transmits them from Him to us) and He alone died on the Cross for our sins, and He alone, by rising from the dead, opened the gates of Heaven to the human race.

But to be a mediator is not the same thing as to be an intercessor, and the Church abounds with intercessors of every different kind - the Saints in Heaven, the priest on the altar or in the Confessional, the child praying his rosary, the young woman praying the Scriptures, and so on.

Okay, thanks. I thought they meant the same thing.

 

[jmcrae]

Okay, thanks. I thought they meant the same thing.

It’s a very common mistake - I think a lot of Protestants believe that, because Jesus is the only Mediator, that we are not allowed to pray for each other, because of this same confusion.

 

[RealEstateCarol]

I’m not picking verses. Take each one of those verses and read the chapters for yourself. Remember, the Bible cannot contradict itself.

Why did Jesus die on the cross? For our sins?

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not picking verses. Take each one of those verses and read the chapters for yourself. Remember, the Bible cannot contradict itself.

Why did Jesus die on the cross? For our sins?

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

He is referring here to Torah Law.

You are correct that the Bible cannot contradict itself, which means that when Jesus said in John 14:15 that in order to love Him, we must obey His commandments, this is in addition to having faith in Him, and in addition to accepting His death on the Cross for our sins. Nothing stands alone - we must follow every word of the Bible; not just those words that we happen to like.

Yes, faith is important - it is one of the things by which we are saved. Jesus’ death on the Cross is the source of grace, but that grace is transmitted to us by means of prayer, obedience to Christ’s commandments, and faith, along with the rest of everything that the Bible tells us to do. Obedience did not suddenly become optional after the Crucifixion.