Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[DixieDaisy]

I’m sure you are following Jesus sincerely as best you know how, and that certainly counts for quite a lot. I have absolutely no doubt that Jesus is meeting you where you are.

I want to challenge a couple of your assumptions, though:

Do you believe that Christ founded a Church?

Some people say that Jesus never intended to found a Church - that the idea of Church is a man-made construction - but take a look at Matthew 16:18-19 - what does it say?

If Jesus founded a Church, do you think it might be a good idea to belong to His Church, rather than one that was founded by a man who was working in opposition to His Church?

(The Catholic Church traces its Popes all the way back to the Apostle Peter, who we see in John 21:15-19 being ordained by Jesus to be “chief shepherd” of the Church. The Baptist Church, on the other hand, was founded by a recovering alcoholic named John Smythe, in 1609, in Amsterdam, for the purpose of protesting the Catholic practice of infant baptism - a practice that dates back to Apostolic times, when St. Polycarp was baptized as an infant, quite possibly by the Apostle who was his teacher when he was a young boy - the Apostle John.)

I’m just throwing those out there for your consideration.

I wasn’t a part of a denomination until I was an adult but my parents were Christians. That concept may be difficult for you because of your deep belief in the Catholic Church. However, I can’t remember a time when God and the Bible wasn’t spoken of in my home by my parents and their friends. It was such a common topic that I was grown before I realized that everybody didn’t talk about their faith that way. We went to church occasionally but it was usually a non-denominational church.

As a result I suppose I have thought of Christ’s Church more in that light. If you think about it, that is how most of the early Christians seemed to meet…in homes. Simple worship and teaching.

As for John Smythe…at least he was recovering from alcoholism. There were some prostitutes in the Bible who were forgiven. And I seem to remember some Popes who slipped a mite as well. Not to mention some priests. There has only been one perfect person walked this earth and His mother did pretty well herself or God wouldn’t have chosen her.

I was baptized in the Bapist Church when I was 22 yrs old. I chose the Baptist because it was the closest to how we believed and I was/am comfortable there. I wanted a church for the fellowship and for Bible study as well as worship. My husband doesn’t attend church but I raised our sons in the Baptist faith.

Daisy

 

[DixieDaisy]

The only problem i have with you post daisy is your first sentence, before long we will be accused for saying that. and the second is my son is planning on “turning” (lol). I think that this is a serious matter, and no matter what Religion my son was thinking about converting to I would take it serious. As a RC myself I would never try to convert anyone, thats not what the RCC is about. We never push our beliefs on anyone, We will stand up for our Church but we are taught not to condem others.

hhmmm Isn’t that the idea when you say that the Catholic Church is The Church. In order to follow what Christ said to do, you have to belong to the Catholic Church and if you don’t do what Christ said to do you go to Hell? I’m not saying that to start a fight. Please don’t take it that way. That is what I get from some of the posts though. I can think of a couple of Protestant churches that say that, as a matter of fact. I don’t let them bother me either. If God tells me to change churches, THEN I’ll listen.

I do take my son’s conversion serious…that’s why I am here. Saying that he was ‘turning’ Catholic was my (evidently) poor attempt at a little tongue in cheek humor. I was as upset at the idea of my son converting to your faith as you would be if your child announced that he/she was converting to mine. I am trying to take it in stride though. I did try to talk him out of it but he seems to have his mind set. He emailed me the Jesus made Peter the first Pope material. Also some other material. I wanted to know more and to get a ‘feel’ for the people and their talk. This is my child and his salvation and I Do take it serious.

My dil is Episcopalian and but loves the Catholic Church. When she found out my son was going to convert, she was afraid we were going to blame her. That is where it comes from but it was HIS choice. I don’t Blame her, blame her…if you understand what I mean. I’m not mad at her. And I’m not here to bash your church.

Daisy

 

[rlg94086]

Hi all,

Just saw this old thread, so I threw my vote in the “yes” column. Of course I believe what the Church teaches. That said, it is important to note that the Church also teaches that it is not impossible for God to save those who are not Catholic. He knows their hearts. I used to think this was a paradox, but it is not. It is a recognition of God’s omniscience (He knows a person’s reasons for not becoming part of the Catholic Church), and His omnipotence (He can save anyone He wants), and His mercy.

 

[rikkk1958]

I voted yes for this thread and my brief explanation was about following righteousness. I found myself a catholic as I grew up and I think blessed to be one. If we truly follow what Jesus said and done catholicism is the right church. Many disagreed but I think the catholic church just wanted to keep the Words of our Lord. I believe the Fathers during and soon after Jesus time because these early witnesses were there to see and hear and the early followers could have the best earliest facts that inspired them to build the church. The reformers which are now flourishing also as various denominations should understand the position of catholics. This thread is, in my opinion a catholic question which all catholics should agree. Salvation is open to everyone and we know that the love of God the father was delivered through His Son and that by offering the Lord as ransom for our sins. We all work for our salvation and catholics believe the Way is to follow what is righteous as much as possible.

 

[DixieDaisy]

Hi all,

Just saw this old thread, so I threw my vote in the “yes” column. Of course I believe what the Church teaches. That said, it is important to note that the Church also teaches that it is not impossible for God to save those who are not Catholic. He knows their hearts. I used to think this was a paradox, but it is not. It is a recognition of God’s omniscience (He knows a person’s reasons for not becoming part of the Catholic Church), and His omnipotence (He can save anyone He wants), and His mercy.

I, for one, am very grateful for God’s omniscience and omnipotence and also for His Grace.

Daisy

 

[rlg94086]

I, for one, am very grateful for God’s omniscience and omnipotence and also for His Grace.

Daisy

 

[jmcrae]

hhmmm Isn’t that the idea when you say that the Catholic Church is The Church. In order to follow what Christ said to do, you have to belong to the Catholic Church and if you don’t do what Christ said to do you go to Hell?

Yes, if you disobey Christ, then you go to Hell. Of course, if you had no way of knowing that it was Christ speaking to you, or if you didn’t understand the message, then He will understand that. It might take that person longer to get to Heaven, since they would spend time in Purgatory learning the things that they should have learned while on the earth, but they will still get to Heaven, in the end.

If God tells me to change churches, THEN I’ll listen.

That’s what it took for me, too. I’m a convert to the Catholic faith, seven years ago. You can read my conversion story, linked in my signature.

I do take my son’s conversion serious…that’s why I am here. Saying that he was ‘turning’ Catholic was my (evidently) poor attempt at a little tongue in cheek humor. I was as upset at the idea of my son converting to your faith as you would be if your child announced that he/she was converting to mine. I am trying to take it in stride though. I did try to talk him out of it but he seems to have his mind set. He emailed me the Jesus made Peter the first Pope material. Also some other material. I wanted to know more and to get a ‘feel’ for the people and their talk. This is my child and his salvation and I Do take it serious.

That’s good - it shows that you really care about him a lot.

My dil is Episcopalian and but loves the Catholic Church. When she found out my son was going to convert, she was afraid we were going to blame her. That is where it comes from but it was HIS choice. I don’t Blame her, blame her…if you understand what I mean. I’m not mad at her. And I’m not here to bash your church.

Is she converting to Catholicism, as well?

 

[jmcrae]

I wasn’t a part of a denomination until I was an adult but my parents were Christians. That concept may be difficult for you because of your deep belief in the Catholic Church. However, I can’t remember a time when God and the Bible wasn’t spoken of in my home by my parents and their friends. It was such a common topic that I was grown before I realized that everybody didn’t talk about their faith that way. We went to church occasionally but it was usually a non-denominational church.

As a result I suppose I have thought of Christ’s Church more in that light. If you think about it, that is how most of the early Christians seemed to meet…in homes. Simple worship and teaching.

These are the roots of the early Catholic Church. The Mass was held in people’s homes (they called it “the breaking of the bread” back then) and Bishops would travel from house to house, baptizing new converts and giving them the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion.

As for John Smythe…at least he was recovering from alcoholism.

Yes, but he still had the mental illnesses that come about from that, and he was not exactly a scholarly theologian.

It’s not about whether he was forgiven of his sins - if he was following Christ in a sincere way and to the best of his ability, then of course he was forgiven of his sins.

But did he have the authority to establish a Church? That authority has to come by means of the laying on of hands, from Christ Himself, which means that the person laying hands on you to give you the authority has to have received that authority himself (and not have lost the authority in the mean time by becoming separated from Christ’s Church), from someone who had the authority, on back to Jesus Christ.

The only ones who have that lineage are the Pope and Bishops of the Catholic Church - other denominations are self-appointed, meaning that they actually don’t have any authority from Christ, at all - they get their authority from themselves; not from God.

 

[distracted]

I wasn’t a part of a denomination until I was an adult but my parents were Christians.

The Roman Catholic C. is not just another denomination, but the original Church established by Christ… I am not trying to start an argument, though, just making a point…

I was baptized in the Bapist Church when I was 22 yrs old. I chose the Baptist because it was the closest to how we believed and I was/am comfortable there.

I told someone once that if i wasn’t Catholic i would be Baptist… I really like a lot of things about the Baptist religion, at least some of the baptist churces… they don’t all teach the same thing. Some teach OSAS… which is SO unbiblical…

anywy, the Catholic Church could learn a few things from the Baptists… Kind of a long story what all i mean, but for one thing, they seem to be a little more… relaxed… for lack of a better word… sometimes more friendly…

 

[distracted]

Confession is not a requirement for salvation. The only thing we need to do to get to Heaven is accept the payment Jesus made.

I don’t agree… or maybe i should say. instead, that there is more to it than that…

HOW does one accept His payment?

We have to accept it in more than just a mental way… (st. James 2:12…). Jesus even rejects those who do mighty things in his name… (St. Matthew 7:23 and St. Luke 13:24 ?]) I believe we have to give Jesus everything… . We have to leave everyone and everything for him… (St. mark 10:17). If we do not love him with all our hearts, bodies and souls, we are on the slippery slope downward… (Hell or long time in Purgatory)… .

 

[Lilyflower]

Originally Posted by RealEstateCarol
Confession is not a requirement for salvation. The only thing we need to do to get to Heaven is accept the payment Jesus made.

So let me ge this right: I can be mean, horrible judgemental, cruel, non-compassionate, totally selfish, discriminatory, murderous, a liar, commit purjery, adulterer, pro-abortion, pro- euthenasia, semitic, a glutton and a drunkard, yet because I accept the payment Jesus made, my place in Heaven is assured?

I THINK NOT!!! Else Heaven is a most unholy place!

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by **RealEstateCarol **
*Confession is not a requirement for salvation. The only thing we need to do to get to Heaven is accept the payment Jesus made. *

Carol - you embrace the theology of what is called “cheap grace.”

 

[distracted]

So let me ge this right: I can be mean, horrible judgemental, cruel, non-compassionate, totally selfish, discriminatory, murderous, a liar, commit purjery, adulterer, pro-abortion, pro- euthenasia, semitic, a glutton and a drunkard, yet because I accept the payment Jesus made, my place in Heaven is assured?

I THINK NOT!!! Else Heaven is a most unholy place!

Amen! Amen!

:clapping:

 

[distracted]

Confession is not a requirement for salvation. The only thing we need to do to get to Heaven is accept the payment Jesus made.

There is far more that is required than just confession… God is perfectly holy… and Rev 21:27 says that no unclean thing will enter heaven… If God let any kind of sin into Heaven, it would cease to be heaven…

He threw Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels out… and he will keep out all those who sin and promote sin…

Of course, that means we would all be excluded… since we are all sinners… but thanks be to Jesus… our salvation…
Yet even Jesus cannot and will not force us to purify ourselves… That is a choice we alone can make…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I voted “No”.​

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**He is - but AFAICS in an inclusive, not an exclusive, manner. **

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**It is not. **

 

[PBP]

Yes you must have jesus to have salvation, but you do not have to be catholic to get it. Thats what we catholics believe.

If you believe the church which Jesus Christ founded to be the Catholic church, why would you think it would be ok to not be a part of it ?

 

[DixieDaisy]

Yes, if you disobey Christ, then you go to Hell. Of course, if you had no way of knowing that it was Christ speaking to you, or if you didn’t understand the message, then He will understand that. It might take that person longer to get to Heaven, since they would spend time in Purgatory learning the things that they should have learned while on the earth, but they will still get to Heaven, in the end.

That’s what it took for me, too. I’m a convert to the Catholic faith, seven years ago. You can read my conversion story, linked in my signature.

That’s good - it shows that you really care about him a lot.

Is she converting to Catholicism, as well?

As a Baptist, I believe Christ paid the price for my sins and I get salvation through belief on Him and accepting Him as my Lord and Savior. Because of that should I WANT to do works for Him. I don’t work for what He has already given me (salvation). Our works are what we lay at His feet when we get to Heaven and shows our love for Him.

It seems that isn’t the Catholic belief from what has been written. Maybe we can agree to disagree so that we don’t have to discuss Purgatory.

At the time my son announced his intention to convert, she wasn’t planning on it herself and she and I haven’t talked about it since. My son and I have mostly discussed his conversion by email. Our oldest son and his wife have emailed him as well.

Our dil would like to be a priest but the Episcopalian group she is in doesn’t ordain women and the one that does ordains homosexuals. She still has a problem with the Pope as the head of the church and his complete spiritual authority. That and no female priests holds her back from converting. The biggest issue is the complete spiritual authority of the Pope though.

Daisy

 

[peary]

She still has a problem with the Pope as the head of the church and his complete spiritual authority. That and no female priests holds her back from converting. The biggest issue is the complete spiritual authority of the Pope though.

Daisy

The pope is the spiritual head of the Catholic Church on earth. As such, he functions - for lack of a better term - as the “prime minister” of Christ in His Kingdom. The pope does not have ‘complete’ spiritual authority - he must take into account the entire Church and His bishops, as he himself is a bishop. Together with the bishops he completes the Teaching Magisterium of the Church. The special charism that the pope has is that, when speaking on Faith and morals, he exercises papal infallibility - which means that he cannot err in these matters because of the special relationship to the Holy Spirit. This has always been a teaching of the Church, and it is also Scriptural, beginning with Peter.

 

[DixieDaisy]

These are the roots of the early Catholic Church. The Mass was held in people’s homes (they called it “the breaking of the bread” back then) and Bishops would travel from house to house, baptizing new converts and giving them the Sacraments of Confirmation and First Holy Communion.

Yes, but he still had the mental illnesses that come about from that, and he was not exactly a scholarly theologian.

It’s not about whether he was forgiven of his sins - if he was following Christ in a sincere way and to the best of his ability, then of course he was forgiven of his sins.

But did he have the authority to establish a Church? That authority has to come by means of the laying on of hands, from Christ Himself, which means that the person laying hands on you to give you the authority has to have received that authority himself (and not have lost the authority in the mean time by becoming separated from Christ’s Church), from someone who had the authority, on back to Jesus Christ.

The only ones who have that lineage are the Pope and Bishops of the Catholic Church - other denominations are self-appointed, meaning that they actually don’t have any authority from Christ, at all - they get their authority from themselves; not from God.

I said I didn’t come in here to bash the Catholic Church and I mean it. Besides, my son has read some books from the Catholic side of some events in history so I know you would say nonCatholics were wrong. So I’ll just say God Bless!

Daisy

 

[DixieDaisy]

I told someone once that if i wasn’t Catholic i would be Baptist… I really like a lot of things about the Baptist religion, at least some of the baptist churces… they don’t all teach the same thing. Some teach OSAS… which is SO unbiblical…

anywy, the Catholic Church could learn a few things from the Baptists… Kind of a long story what all i mean, but for one thing, they seem to be a little more… relaxed… for lack of a better word… sometimes more friendly…

Especially Southern Baptists! I guess that is one reason I would make a bad Catholic…I’m not a pomp and ceremony person. Everybody sits there so stiff when all those people in robes and carrying incense are going down the aisle. Well actually, I have never been to a Catholic service, just an Episcopalian one. Everything was so stiff and formal. And everyone takes communion from the same cups. We use separate cups in our church.

Daisy