Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[D_M]

I find your reasoning process interesting. Would you also say that people who go to Purgatory, but finally end up in Heaven, have “died in their sins”?

Abraham is now in Heaven; this is by no means the end result for those who actively deny Christ, or who, having the opportunity to become Catholics, refuse it.

I would say no, because my understanding of purgatory was that it was a place where those who had committed venial sins were being cleansed of their behaviour, while people who lived outside of God’s grace (such as Abraham and everyone before the new covenant, as well as all non-christians) and committed mortal sins, without the Lord’s forgivenesss, died in those sins.

Admittedly I have not gone through the process myself and could not comment but on second or third hand sources.

May the Lord open our eyes in regard to this mystery if it please Him. Amen.

 

[peary]

PURGATORY is NOT A PLACE. It is the state of one’s soul after death. Show me in the CCC where the Church teaches that it is a ‘place’.

 

[c659smith]

I would say no, because my understanding of purgatory was that it was a place where those who had committed venial sins were being cleansed of their behaviour, while people who lived outside of God’s grace (such as Abraham and everyone before the new covenant, as well as all non-christians) and committed mortal sins, without the Lord’s forgivenesss, died in those sins.

Admittedly I have not gone through the process myself and could not comment but on second or third hand sources.

May the Lord open our eyes in regard to this mystery if it please Him. Amen.

My questions to you are this.

Can anyone enter Heaven to whom is not perfect and totally devoid of sin even the thought of sin?

How are your robes turned white?

All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven" (CCC 1030). So, you see, purgatory is not a second chance after this life. It is only for those who “die in God’s grace and friendship.”

God wants us to be perfect (cf. Matt. 5:48). If we are not perfected by the time we die, we will be perfected in purgatory. He loves us too much to allow us to be less than what he created us to be. Purgatory is not about an angry God inflicting punishment upon his creatures. It is about a loving Father who “disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness” (Heb. 12:10).

 

[mikew262]

So you don’t believe 1 Tim. 3:15?

This doesn’t prove anything. Each denomination is striving to find out how to conduct themselves and seek the foundation of truth and each one thinks they have it.

 

[mikew262]

It is written that he who rejects his church, rejects him, and that those individuals are to be treated as heathen.

Yes, but what Church, the Catholic Church, the Christian Church as a whole? What is Jesus really saying? Obviously, Catholics are going to say the Catholic Church, but is that really the true answer?

 

[mikew262]

I have not rejected Jesus or his Church and I am no heathen. Judge not

Unfortunately, you might find quite a few judges reside here.

 

[mikew262]

Yes, Jesus Christ and the Holy **Catholic **Church are the only means of Salvation.

Jesus formulated one plan of salvation and founded one Church. If that is true, then it follows that all other plans are false. The Church is merely declaring that she believes her teachings to be true. Certainly that should be expected of any religion. After all, if you didn’t believe that your teachings were true, why would you believe them?
*But if only the Catholic Church has the complete plan of salvation, how would it be possible for a non-Catholic to get to heaven? Vatican Council II addressed this point in its “Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium),” **“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience *– those too may achieve eternal salvation” (no. 16). **In short,those who are truly unaware of what God requires of them are not held responsible; rather they are judged by what they did with the truth they had.

staycatholic.com/salvation_outside_the_church.htm

Recheck your catechism, there is an exception if one has never been exposed to the Gospel of Christ and the Church.

 

[mikew262]

A non-christian cannot inherit eternal life. Every last one of them dies in their sins.

I do know with certainty that a non-christian cannot go to heaven.

So Jews, Hindus, etc. who have lived a good and peaceful life and have faithfully worshiped their idea of God have no chance at going to Heaven and our destined for Hell?

No, that is incorrect. Even the Church makes exceptions for people who have not heard the Gospel of Christ, but have still seeked God in a honest and sincere manner (I’m paraphrasing from catechism).

You need to re-think that one.

 

[mikew262]

PURGATORY is NOT A PLACE. It is the state of one’s soul after death. Show me in the CCC where the Church teaches that it is a ‘place’.

Careful, you may have a non-catholic Christian ask you where Purgatory is mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Yes, but what Church, the Catholic Church, the Christian Church as a whole? What is Jesus really saying? Obviously, Catholics are going to say the Catholic Church, but is that really the true answer?

When he said this, there was only one church, that was his, then you must stand to keep the context, if the Catholic Church is his, for it is the one he established, I’d have to conclude that it’s the Catholic church he’s discussing. It’s the definition between the protestants claim to be part of the same Church Jesus established or if they are not, we then come back to that old argument.

 

[Brian_Millar]

So Jews, Hindus, etc. who have lived a good and peaceful life and have faithfully worshiped their idea of God have no chance at going to Heaven and our destined for Hell?

No, that is incorrect. Even the Church makes exceptions for people who have not heard the Gospel of Christ, but have still seeked God in a honest and sincere manner (I’m paraphrasing from catechism).

You need to re-think that one.

Most people throughout the world have access to the knowledge of Christ, they have an opportunity to believe in him or not regardless of their current faith. It’s said that not one man is rightous, not one, all fall short of the Glory of God, so what this is saying is that you cannot personally live a blameless life, that nobody is doing so, they sin and therefor are flawed. It is only through Grace and through Christs sacrifice which can save them, if they choose to be saved or not, right now in this life, is up to them. It’s all here for them to accept or not so there is no excuse. This is the Christian perspective on this matter.

 

[D_M]

My questions to you are this.

Can anyone enter Heaven to whom is not perfect and totally devoid of sin even the thought of sin?

How are your robes turned white?

All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven" (CCC 1030). So, you see, purgatory is not a second chance after this life. It is only for those who “die in God’s grace and friendship.”

God wants us to be perfect (cf. Matt. 5:48). If we are not perfected by the time we die, we will be perfected in purgatory. He loves us too much to allow us to be less than what he created us to be. Purgatory is not about an angry God inflicting punishment upon his creatures. It is about a loving Father who “disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness” (Heb. 12:10).

No, no one can enter the Father’s presence with sin, and are robes are turned white by washing them in the blood of the lamb (to quote revelations).

I also thought purgatory was a place only reserved for those who died in God’s grace.

I was under the impression that this grace only came after the Lord’s passion, and by baptism most especially, which those in the old covenant, despite their righteousness, had not yet come to…

My understanding was that prior to this grace to which you speak, both the wicked and righteous likewise went to sheol (and there are many quotations in OT that point to this), while the righteous were saved from that place at a later date:

Psalm 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me. Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. 9 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will rest secure, 10 because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay

Psalm 49:10 For all can see that wise men die; the foolish and the senseless alike perish and leave their wealth to others. 11 Their tombs will remain their houses forever, their dwellings for endless generations, though they had named lands after themselves. 12 But man, despite his riches, does not endure; he is like the beasts that perish. 14 Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions. 15 But God will redeem my life from the grave; he will surely take me to himself. Selah

 

[D_M]

So Jews, Hindus, etc. who have lived a good and peaceful life and have faithfully worshiped their idea of God have no chance at going to Heaven and our destined for Hell?

No, that is incorrect. Even the Church makes exceptions for people who have not heard the Gospel of Christ, but have still seeked God in a honest and sincere manner (I’m paraphrasing from catechism).

You need to re-think that one.

That is correct every person who will not believe that Jesus is he dies in their sins. John 8:24

If Abraham could not inherit salvation until he heard the gospel and became christian, than how could any other non-christian unless they did the same? Abraham was not excluded from salvation indefinitely, because he would have believed if he had known the gospel, and I think the catechism refers to the same with regard to others perhaps.

I nevertheless therefore maintain that non-christians must become christian before they can enter heaven.

 

[distracted]

It is written that he who rejects his church, rejects him, and that those individuals are to be treated as heathen.

Are you saying that even those who try to live a Christian life but reject the Catholic Church (out of ignorance) should be considered heathen?

 

[distracted]

PURGATORY is NOT A PLACE. It is the state of one’s soul after death. Show me in the CCC where the Church teaches that it is a ‘place’.

I have heard that it is both. And also, that there are as many Purgatories as there are souls who go there… which makes total sense…

 

[justasking4]

PURGATORY is NOT A PLACE. It is the state of one’s soul after death. Show me in the CCC where the Church teaches that it is a ‘place’.

Not according to the New Advent:
"Purgatory (Lat., “purgare”, to make clean, to purify) in accordance with Catholic teaching **is a place **or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God’s grace, are, not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Are you saying that even those who try to live a Christian life but reject the Catholic Church (out of ignorance) should be considered heathen?

Yes, I do, you can say that your church supports the Catholic church, you can say i’ts friendly to it, you can say it’s simply a suppliment and all of your members attend mass, at least once a year, just to keep in line with it, and still remain catholic and yet still worship every Sunday as you see fit. You can be what ever denomination you want to call yourself, you can do the same ole gig, but you can also decide the label is just that, a label, become confirmed Catholics and have Unison into the faith all in the same package for your spiritual life.

If you want another answer and decide to ignore the above rant, then it’s simple “yes”…

 

[peary]

Yes, but what Church, the Catholic Church, the Christian Church as a whole? What is Jesus really saying? Obviously, Catholics are going to say the Catholic Church, but is that really the true answer?

Why not? The ekklesia is not only a “community of believers” - it is a SOCIETY based on the revelation of God through Jesus Christ. As any society, it has its own laws and regulations; it has its set morals and beliefs. To see the Catholic Church without this significance is to miss the forest for the trees. But it is also a spiritual entity in the world, and it also exists in time and space. To suggest that the true church is ‘invisible’ is an error. There are three ‘levels’ - if I may call them that - of the Catholic Church: the Church Triumphant in Heaven, comprised of all the saints, angels, and true believers; the Church Suffering which are the souls in purification, or purgatory; and the Church Militant - we who are here in this world to spread the Gospel.

That’s my take on it. Amen.

 

[roguejim]

“The Catholic Church alone is the Body of Christ, of which He is Head and Savior. The “People of God” and the “Mystical Body of Christ” are one and the same thing, both of them designating the Church. Membership in the Church requires conditions other than Baptism alone; it requires identical faith and unity of communion, so that by means of the Catholic Church alone, which is the unrestricted instrument of salvation, is it possible to obtain the fulness of the means to salvation. Indeed, the Church is both a sure and an exclusive means of attaining salvation. We must always remember the unity of the Mystical Body outside which there is no salvation, for there is no entering into salvation outside the Church. Outside this Body, the Holy Spirit gives life to no one: those who are enemies to unity do not participate in the charity of Divine Life; those outside the Church do not possess the Holy Spirit. The entrance to salvation is open to no one outside the Church!”
POPE PAUL VI

“The Church alone is the entrance to salvation.”
POPE PIUS XII

“The mystery of salvation is continued and accomplished in the Church, and from this single source it reaches the world. There is no salvation outside the Church. From her alone there flows the life-giving force destined to renew the whole of humanity, directing every human being to become a part of the Mystical Body of Christ.”
POPE JOHN PAUL II

“He who does not keep the true Catholic faith whole and without error will undoubtedly be lost. He who is separated from the Catholic Church will not have life.”
POPE GREGORY XVI

“There is salvation in no one except Christ, and the Church is His Body.”
POPE JOHN PAUL II

“It is impossible to be joined to God except through Jesus Christ;
it is impossible to be united to Christ except in and through the Church, His Mystical Body.”
POPE JOHN XXIII

"Those who acknowledge Christ must acknowledge Him completely and entirely. The Head is the only-begotten Son of God; the Body is His Church. No one can in any way be counted among the children of God unless they take Jesus Christ as their Brother and, at the same time, the Church as their Mother. Christianity is, in fact, incarnate in the Catholic Church; it is identified with that perfect spiritual society which is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ and has for its visible head the Roman Pontiff. Consequently, all who wish to reach salvation outside the Church are mistaken as to the way and are engaged in a futile effort. This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it upon your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church."

Not to press a point to hard, but don’t these quotes, of which I could provide more, pretty much answer the original question? Funny that no one referred to any of this.

 

[Jimmy_B]

…The Church has contained within itself ALL the Truth that God chose to reveal to us.