Is Jesus God?

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Ahhhh, but man is dependent upon God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! Amen!
This does not make The Father dependant on any.
The Holy spirit is from The Father as is Yahooshua (pbwh)
BTW, I know you’re being reverent with “pbwh”, but in my warped head, it seems like you’re giving a raspberry every time you do that. What exactly does it mean, “Peace be with Him”?
He knew his relationship and place with The Father, this is where peace is.

He had it has it and offered it to us, the gift of free will from The Father is the opportunity for us to accept it, obscure it or deny it.

If you mean raspberry is a fruit Amen
 
This does not make The Father dependant on any.
The Holy spirit is from The Father as is Yahooshua (pbwh)
But the Holy Spirit procedes from the Father and Son… not just from the Father.
He knew his relationship and place with The Father, this is where peace is.

He had it has it and offered it to us, the gift of free will from The Father is the opportunity for us to accept it, obscure it or deny it.

If you mean raspberry is a fruit Amen
No, sadly, raspberry may be a particularly American term. Stick your tongue between your teeth and blow. The sound your lips make, similar to the sound that another bodily function makes, is called a “raspberry”. Cartoonist will describe it as “pbwh”. Hence, my warped mind immediately goes there whenever you type that. I often hear that foreigners have a hard time with American humor… more-so than any other country’s humor. This may be an indication of why that is.

In any event, please understand that I consider God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as equal. They are separate, but One.
 
But the Holy Spirit procedes from the Father and Son… not just from the Father.
Look to the older creed, the later only offers this due to His spirit through Yahooshua (----) i think Eastern Catholics still see it this way and would not change the creed (as stated i think)
No, sadly, raspberry may be a particularly American term. Stick your tongue between your teeth and blow. The sound your lips make, similar to the sound that another bodily function makes, is called a “raspberry”. Cartoonist will describe it as “pbwh”. Hence, my warped mind immediately goes there whenever you type that. I often hear that foreigners have a hard time with American humor… more-so than any other country’s humor. This may be an indication of why that is.
Ok i am trying to follow you, have deleted it for your comfort.
In any event, please understand that I consider God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as equal. They are separate, but One.
Yes i do and respect it, was just trying to share with you that we are taught to pray to the Father for a sound reason.

The Father is dependant on none, he has no equal.
Yahooshua (----) in narrations made many statements to this.
Yahooshua (----) speaks for Him.
 
Look to the older creed, the later only offers this due to His spirit through Yahooshua (----) i think Eastern Catholics still see it this way and would not change the creed (as stated i think)
No, they didn’t “change it”. They “added it”. At Chalcedon, if I’m correct. It came from a fuller understanding of the Trinity. But it was never, “… Who proceded from the Father” only. And yes, our Greek brothers do see it the way you presented it. But its funny, every other time they separated from the Latin Rite Church, they were proven wrong. They just don’t seem to think they are wrong this time. But I humbly pray that we will return to full union with our Eastern brothers! And I am confident that I will see the fruition of those prayers!
Ok i am trying to follow you, have deleted it for your comfort.
Oh, please don’t! The weakness is mine. But you don’t have to change your custom simply because I’m an idiot. That is what has caused so many problems in our society today.
Yes i do and respect it, was just trying to share with you that we are taught to pray to the Father for a sound reason.

The Father is dependant on none, he has no equal.
Yahooshua (pbwh) in narrations made many statements to this.
Yahooshua (pbwh) speaks for Him.
Yes, I know He has no equal. But neither does Jesus. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are very instrumental in our lives. But no One is greater than the Other, because They are One.
 
No, they didn’t “change it”. They “added it”. At Chalcedon, if I’m correct. It came from a fuller understanding of the Trinity. But it was never, “… Who proceded from the Father” only. And yes, our Greek brothers do see it the way you presented it. But its funny, every other time they separated from the Latin Rite Church, they were proven wrong. They just don’t seem to think they are wrong this time. But I humbly pray that we will return to full union with our Eastern brothers! And I am confident that I will see the fruition of those prayers!
I think still the understanding is Fathers spirit through the son.
Oh, please don’t! The weakness is mine. But you don’t have to change your custom simply because I’m an idiot.
I dont think your an idiot, i have had good conversation with you.
Yes, I know He has no equal.
Amen
But neither does Jesus.
In the narrations he has a greater The Father he taught us to pray to
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are very instrumental in our lives.
Amen
But no One is greater than the Other,
see above
because They are One.
I take this to be in unity not equality
 
Atheists do not believe in God. I do believe in God. Therefore, I am not an Atheist. And the opposite of Atheism is idolatry, which is practiced by those who believe that a man can be God.
The opposite of atheism is theism. Since you say you are not an atheist and the opposite is idolatry, that must mean you are an idolater.
 
Hi Simon,
because of Yahooshua (pbwh) narrations in the bible

The Father is greater than i
I dont know who sits where at the table only The Father does
Not my will but your will
why have you forsaken me
and others

The G-d he taught to pray to was The Father, He is all seeing and all knowing

Bless ya pray well and stay well
 
… which is something that Christians do NOT profess. A man can not be God. But Jesus is not just “A man”. He is The Word… The Alpha and The Omega… etc., etc.
You have only contradicted yourself in terms. From one of the corners of your mouth, you confess that Christians do not profess that a man can be god, and from the other corner, you confess that Jesus was God. What do you think we are, stupid? Jesus was a man upon earth, not at all different from any other man, physiologically, anatomincally and whatever there is more than that in a man, even spiritually. Don’t you think it’s about time to stop with this cop-out?
 
I think Matthew was quite clear in the sign that Jesus gave when He overturned the market tables and money changers’ tables. The Temple sacrificial system was coming down. Which is exactly what happened 40 years later, after Matthew’s Gospel was already written.
**You have just confessed that Jesus was no more than a man just like any other, including with the weakness to sin as he did. Have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? You know, “Never do unto others what you would not like they did unto you.” Would you like me to mess up with your way to make a living? I didn’t think so. I don’t believe Jesus caused financial damages to the money changers in the front area of the Temple, but you do. Therefore, Jesus broke the Golden Rule and committed a sin. You can no longer claim
that he was sinless.

The money changers were there in the front area of the Temple to make it easier for Jewish tourists and for the Temple workers. To know the Jewish leaders as I do, everything
was well organized, and nothing was done against the rules of the Temple. They money changers were not a centimeter beyond the limits they could get in their approach to the Temple. I don’t believe either what the gospel writer says about them or that Jesus ever did that. It’s their envy of the Jewish People which prompted them to write their words of hatred.**
 
But a man was also God, therefore, it is not idolatry for me to worship him or believe in him. I too like you once had to believe by faith alone that Jesus died for me and was God. My circumstances were so extraordinary - I was put through a serious dark night of faith. The understanding followed after I gave my assent to believe Jesus died for me (but not before). I urge you to at least accept on faith alone that Jesus died for you and is God. I assure you, if you keep open, understanding will follow. St. Augustine even says this. Otherwise you may never believe in Jesus.:o That might not sound like the end of the world to you, but you will be missing out on the Eucharist, our gift of heaven on earth. I now understand you are not an atheist. Thanks for clearing that up.🙂
Do you know what I compare believing by faith to? A Roulette game. Too risky. The faithful of Jim Jones tried it and almost a thousand went to their death stupidly. Knowledge and Reason have proved much better. Disraeli, a former British Prime Minister once said that where faith begins, knowledge ends. And for lack of knowledge, Hosea said that my People perish. (Hosea 4:6) Think it through. You won’t regret.
 
You have only contradicted yourself in terms. From one of the corners of your mouth, you confess that Christians do not profess that a man can be god, and from the other corner, you confess that Jesus was God. What do you think we are, stupid? Jesus was a man upon earth, not at all different from any other man, physiologically, anatomincally and whatever there is more than that in a man, even spiritually. Don’t you think it’s about time to stop with this cop-out?
No, my brother. I said “A Man” can’t be God, meaning “any old man” can’t be God. But Jesus isn’t just “any old Man”. The Holy Spirit saw to that!

And what makes you think I feel you are stupid? Did I imply that? I certainly didn’t mean to.

Ben, my faith is serious to me, just as your is to you. None of my Faith is a result of a “cop-out”. I sort of resent you thinking that, and I pray that I simply misunderstood you.
 
**You have just confessed that Jesus was no more than a man just like any other, including with the weakness to sin as he did. Have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? You know, “Never do unto others what you would not like they did unto you.” Would you like me to mess up with your way to make a living? I didn’t think so. I don’t believe Jesus caused financial damages to the money changers in the front area of the Temple, but you do. Therefore, Jesus broke the Golden Rule and committed a sin. You can no longer claim
that he was sinless.

The money changers were there in the front area of the Temple to make it easier for Jewish tourists and for the Temple workers. To know the Jewish leaders as I do, everything
was well organized, and nothing was done against the rules of the Temple. They money changers were not a centimeter beyond the limits they could get in their approach to the Temple. I don’t believe either what the gospel writer says about them or that Jesus ever did that. It’s their envy of the Jewish People which prompted them to write their words of hatred.**
The money changers were profiting off the pilgrims that traveled to Jerusalem to make a Sacrifice. Jesus was performing a sign, one that God is perfectly allowed to do, to show what was going to happen in oh… about 40 years from that time.

The court where the livestock was sold was the “Court of Anias”, who had been the High Priest of Jerusalem, and was father in law of Caiaphas, the currect High Priest at Jesus’ time. Because of their “connections”, the Pharisees could find a blemish in any animal brought in from outside Jerusalem. Not to mention that fact that, after a long journey, many an animal could easily acquire a blemish. So the pilgrims were at the mercy of those who rented space from Anias to sell livestock for sacrifice. They also controlled the money-changers, who converted the money for a profit. Jesus was chastising the Pharisees for taking advantage of the pilgrims who were totally at their mercy, for the Jewish coin was worthless outside of Jerusalem.

You can choose to believe those words written in the Gospels or not. But many millions of Jews have believed it and have come to their promised fulfillment that many of the Jewish Faithful will never see, if they don’t open their eyes to the Word.
 
Do you know what I compare believing by faith to? A Roulette game. Too risky. The faithful of Jim Jones tried it and almost a thousand went to their death stupidly. Knowledge and Reason have proved much better. Disraeli, a former British Prime Minister once said that where faith begins, knowledge ends. And for lack of knowledge, Hosea said that my People perish. (Hosea 4:6) Think it through. You won’t regret.
You whitewash the faith of millions over the brainwashing of a 1000 in Guyana?

Disraeli just so happened to be wrong. To claim that faith washes out knowledge never met a scientist who still had faith. Some of the brightest minds in history were faithful. Their knowledge only increased their faith.

I fail to see where one cannot have knowledge and reason and faith!
 
Do you know what I compare believing by faith to? A Roulette game. Too risky. The faithful of Jim Jones tried it and almost a thousand went to their death stupidly. Knowledge and Reason have proved much better. Disraeli, a former British Prime Minister once said that where faith begins, knowledge ends. And for lack of knowledge, Hosea said that my People perish. (Hosea 4:6) Think it through. You won’t regret.
The only God that is credible to me is a self-sacrificial Trinitarian God in which Jesus is the second person. All other gods do not fit the definition of a loving God and so I feel perfectly safe believing in Jesus. Our Trinitarian God is Love and Truth and Jesus said he was the Truth and all his actions were motivated by love (even when he whipped the money off the tables in the synagogue out of zealous love for his Father and his Father’s house). Either Jesus is a liar or he is the Truth. I find no risk in believing in his words. It brings me comfort. Where is the risk? Is it a risk believing God took on flesh to redeem me and to give me example on how to live? Jesus has spoken words that are eternal and filled with authority. Jesus has told me everything I ever needed to know to get to heaven. Why should believing in him be a risk? Has he ever contradicted the Father in any way? Is it a risk to get to go to heaven? Would I go to hell for it? Would a humble and trusting soul of mine be rejected by the Father for believing in his Son Jesus? The only thing I fear is sin and going to hell and Jesus takes away my sin and makes it possible for me to avoid hell. If I don’t believe in Jesus how else am I supposed to be freed from my sin and get to heaven? After all, prophesy fortells of Jesus the Messiah. He fit the desciption perfectly. I’d be turning my back on the prophesy of the prophets of old in the Bible and the plan of the Father for my salvation.
 
No, my brother. I said “A Man” can’t be God, meaning “any old man” can’t be God. But Jesus isn’t just “any old Man”. The Holy Spirit saw to that!

And what makes you think I feel you are stupid? Did I imply that? I certainly didn’t mean to.

Ben, my faith is serious to me, just as your is to you. None of my Faith is a result of a “cop-out”. I sort of resent you thinking that, and I pray that I simply misunderstood you.
**Who said that the Holy Spirit saw to that, that Jesus wasn’t just a man, the Hellenistic Gentiles who wrote the gospels? Not too convincing.

Not as an excuse, but what I meant for Christians thinking that we are stupid is when they pick up a Jew and preach to the Jews that he was the son of God with a woman, as if Judaism is a synonym with Greek Mythology.

And to admit that you misunderstood me would make of you less intelligent than I have you to be. Therefore, I consider - not your faith - but the doctrine of a man-god in a Jew as a cop-out.**
 
The money changers were profiting off the pilgrims that traveled to Jerusalem to make a Sacrifice. Jesus was performing a sign, one that God is perfectly allowed to do, to show what was going to happen in oh… about 40 years from that time.

The court where the livestock was sold was the “Court of Anias”, who had been the High Priest of Jerusalem, and was father in law of Caiaphas, the currect High Priest at Jesus’ time. Because of their “connections”, the Pharisees could find a blemish in any animal brought in from outside Jerusalem. Not to mention that fact that, after a long journey, many an animal could easily acquire a blemish. So the pilgrims were at the mercy of those who rented space from Anias to sell livestock for sacrifice. They also controlled the money-changers, who converted the money for a profit. Jesus was chastising the Pharisees for taking advantage of the pilgrims who were totally at their mercy, for the Jewish coin was worthless outside of Jerusalem.

You can choose to believe those words written in the Gospels or not. But many millions of Jews have believed it and have come to their promised fulfillment that many of the Jewish Faithful will never see, if they don’t open their eyes to the Word.
**You mention above that Jesus did that to the money changers because they were taking advantage of the pilgrims to make a profit. Tell me, would you work for no profit? That was their way to make a living. See what I mean by “cop-out” now?

And the Pharisees were not the ones who rendered animals cosher or not cosher for sacrifice but the Levites. You guys like to blame Pharisees everywhere, unconsciously that the reason was due to the Pauline grudge for the reason that the Pharisees never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil throughout his life. Jesus never chased Pharisees or vice-versa, considering that Jesus was of the line of Pharisees.

“If they don’t open their eyes to the Word.” What Word are you talking about, the only Scriptures that Jesus used to handle and refer to as the Word of God? What makes you think we don’t have our eyes open to it? That’s the same Scripture we still have. Of course you mean to open our eyes to the writing of Hellenistic Gentiles who wrote about Jesus 50+ years after Jesus had been gone and with very poor knowledge of what is to be Jewish. That to be blinded to is a virtue.**
 
You whitewash the faith of millions over the brainwashing of a 1000 in Guyana?

Disraeli just so happened to be wrong. To claim that faith washes out knowledge never met a scientist who still had faith. Some of the brightest minds in history were faithful. Their knowledge only increased their faith.

I fail to see where one cannot have knowledge and reason and faith!
The answer is in the definition of faith, and Reason, and Knowledge. You might want to consider trading your faith for hope… at least.
 
Really easy? Not that easy, because you have not answered my question. It means the contradiction remains. Jesus was no threat to the Temple system. Who said so, the Hellenistic Gentiles who wrote the gospels? Why should I believe in Jewish haters who had a mind only to establish the church of Paul? If the guys who wrote the NT, were Jewish, I myself would quit being Jewish.
Well Ben, I won’t hold you to it. Matthew Mark and John were Jewish. Luke was probably from Antioch and thought to be Greek (Hellenistic Gentile). You got 1 out of four.

Some Christian quarters down the centuries have interpreted the New Testament as a justification for anti-semetism, and even the behaviour of SOME crazy Catholics against Jews is rather embarrassing, but I don’t think there are any formal Church teachings that encourage this grave sin, and if I am wrong, tell me what encyclical or papal bull in which it occurs. Built in scriptural anti-semitism is a complicated issue and should be examined with honesty.

The Gospel of John has been described both as the most Jewish and the most anti- Jewish of the Gospels. This duality is reflected in the present work where, starting by looking at the Jewish liturgical year, the author seeks to suggest causes for the conflict as well as offering ways of overcoming any resulting sense of anti-semitism.
http://www.loyolapress.com/judaism-and-the-jews-in-the-gospel-of-john.htm
*4. As the sacred synod searches into the mystery of the Church, it remembers the bond that spiritually ties the people of the New Covenant to Abraham’s stock. *
*Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God’s saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham’s sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch’s call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people’s exodus from the land of bondage. The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) *

*Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8) *
*The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: “theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh” (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church’s main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ’s Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people. *

*As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and “serve him shoulder to shoulder” (Soph. 3:9).(12) *

*Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues. *
*True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. *
Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church’s preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
NOSTRA AETATE


Shalom
 
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