Is Jesus God?

[fhansen]

**The Faith of Jesus was Judaism. Oh! Perhaps you have some reservation about his being Catholic or Protestant? That will be the day! **

Why would I have a reservation about that? Anyway, my point was that Jesus’ opinion on faith or any other matter of import wouldn’t be particularly trustworthy in any case if He misrepresented who He was-as you seem to be implying He did.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Re: Is Jesus God?

So in your mind they didn’t say a word about the Gospel. Tell me something with credibility, that’s the problem, you haven’t.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Why would I have a reservation about that? Anyway, my point was that Jesus’ opinion on faith or any other matter of import wouldn’t be particularly trustworthy in any case if He misrepresented who He was-as you seem to be implying He did.

Exactly for that very reason that Jesus was Jewish and whose faith wsa Judaism. The misrepresentation of a Jewish man claiming he was God or son of God is pagan Mythology, Hellenism or Christian. Things like that are unheard of among Jews.

 

[fhansen]

Exactly for that very reason that Jesus was Jewish and whose faith wsa Judaism. The misrepresentation of a Jewish man claiming he was God or son of God is pagan Mythology, Hellenism or Christian. Things like that are unheard of among Jews.

**Yes, I’d bet it could be a pretty blasphemous thing to say almost regardless of ones religious background, especially for a common citizen to say about himself-and more so yet, I’m sure, in the case of Judaism. Jesus didn’t tend to dance to anyone’s particular tune, however, taking issue with religious leaders on matters of faith if they departed from the truth; he claimed full understanding of scripture while there was some disagreement among Jewish leaders as to it’s meaning on certain points-and they didn’t always like His take on things.

Your point seems to be that, if He agrees with your beliefs then He couldn’t be who His followers claimed Him to be. Our point is that Messiah could only be God because God alone can save man. And that the time was ripe in human history for man to begin to learn this fact. The Law must be fulfilled but man cannot accomplish this on his own and so the new covenant would be one where mans justification in the eyes of God did not begin with observance of the law but would begin with faith in Him and in the need for Him to help him observe it.

The reason is that, according to Jesus, the whole Law and Prophets are only truly fulfilled when man loves, and man simply does not/cannot love as he was created to because, internally and individually, he’s separated from his Source of love by being given over instead to sin-meaning that he prefers his own way to God’s way regardless of outward professions of faith or the observance of any particular religion. This comprises sort of a Catch-22 for man which explains why he continuously falls short of the glory of God-never quite overcoming this predisposition with the result that evil continues to flourish on earth.

And this is why Catholicism teaches that the prophecies in Jeremiah 31 are fulfilled for all men in a new covenant instituted by the coming of Christ whereupon man can individually enter into a new direct relationship with God who will then undertake a process of replacing mans heart of stone with a heart of flesh, if man becomes so disposed as to begin to allow this change to take place.

**

 

[elvisman]

Exactly for that very reason that Jesus was Jewish and whose faith wsa Judaism. The misrepresentation of a Jewish man claiming he was God or son of God is pagan Mythology, Hellenism or Christian. Things like that are unheard of among Jews.

WRONG, Ben.
**I suggest you go back to this thread, where you were soundly defeated and exposed for what you are: **A self-serving, anti-Christian who knows next-to-nothing about Christianity.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=360864&page=5

You come here to pick fights with Christians and when they give you educated answers - you refer to them as “anti-Semites”, as you did to me.

**On that thread, I explained to you over and over how Jesus IS God and how he was the Fulfillment of the Law of the OT. **I asked you to quote the Greek Myth that the story of Jesus came from and you couldn’t. You just kept repeating the same mantra about how it was all based on Greek Mythology.

Until you can do this - you are not to be taken seriously.

 

[ready]

I don’t mean for you to take this personally, Ben, but I am glad elvisman pointed out to you your error - if only for you to take off your blinders.

 

[PAboy57]

sounds like this is appropriate.

ACT OF FAITH
O my God, who are infallible Truth and can neither deceive nor be deceived, I firmly believe all that you have revealed and propose to my belief though your holy Church, because you have revealed it. I believe that you are one in nature and three in Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that you are the Creator of all things and that you reward the just for all eternity in heaven and punish the wicked for all eternity in hell. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God made man, that he suffered and died for my sins and rose from the dead in glory, and that it is only in him through the Holy Spirit that eternal life is given to us . I believe in all that your holy Church believes. I thank you for having called me to the true faith, and I propose that with the help of your grace I will live and die in this holy faith. Amen.

 

[Canto]

The prophets would say: Thus says the Lord…
Jesus would say: Amen I say to you…

 

[Ben_Masada]

Jesus didn’t tend to dance to anyone’s particular tune, however, taking issue with religious leaders on matters of faith if they departed from the truth; he claimed full understanding of scripture while there was some disagreement among Jewish leaders as to it’s meaning on certain points-and they didn’t always like His take on things.

 

[fhansen]

That’s not true at all. Jesus did dance according to the tune of the Law even down to the letter. It means he danced to the Pharisaic tune. (Mat. 5:17-19)

Right, He called them hypocrites and blind guides, remarking that their righteousness was only an external show, challenged their interpretation on keeping the Sabbath, told them they break Gods commands for the sake of their traditions, etc. He certainly didn’t follow much of what the Pharisaical crowd actually did in spite of His love for the Law and approval of their basic teachings.

Even Jews who still believe in an individual Messiah don’t believe that the Messiah will be God. Therefore, the idea is not Jewish. Since Jesus was Jewish, the idea is not true.

Fortunately for man, God’s full of surprises-the Father doesn’t change His promises but He doesn’t dance to man’s tune either.

Where is it written that if we want to observe God’s Law, we must obey it perfectly? Nowhere. That’s why Jesus left it very clear that till heaven and earth pass all Jews must try to observe God’s Law and teach it down to the letter. (Mat. 5:19)

**For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.**Matt 5:20

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies* and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48**Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. **Matt 5:43-48

You have no idea of the love in the Jewish heart towards the observance of God’s Law.

The love of man is supposed to be for God-and most have no idea how far off we are in this area.*

 

[Ben_Masada]

(Edited)

You speak only of two things: Replacement Theology and Greek Mythology. You know very well that a man being born of god with a woman is Greek Mythology. Read about Greek Mythology if you don’t know the etimology of the term.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I don’t mean for you to take this personally, Ben, but I am glad elvisman pointed out to you your error - if only for you to take off your blinders.

**Jews have no blinders. We don’t have a church behind pulling the strings. We are free. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

sounds like this is appropriate.

ACT OF FAITH
O my God, who are infallible Truth and can neither deceive nor be deceived, I firmly believe all that you have revealed and propose to my belief though your holy Church, because you have revealed it. I believe that you are one in nature and three in Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that you are the Creator of all things and that you reward the just for all eternity in heaven and punish the wicked for all eternity in hell. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God made man, that he suffered and died for my sins and rose from the dead in glory, and that it is only in him through the Holy Spirit that eternal life is given to us . I believe in all that your holy Church believes. I thank you for having called me to the true faith, and I propose that with the help of your grace I will live and die in this holy faith. Amen.

Jesus himself said that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord. Read Mark
12:29. The problem with Catholics is that they prefer to believe what the Church says and not what Jesus said.

 

[Ben_Masada]

The prophets would say: Thus says the Lord…
Jesus would say: Amen I say to you…

Talking about the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53, Isaiah, the Prophet identifies that Servant with Israel by name in Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; 45:4. If Jesus said Amen to that, it means that he agreed with Prophet Isaiah that the Messiah is collective and not an individual. Now, I too say Amen.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Right, He called them hypocrites and blind guides, remarking that their righteousness was only an external show, challenged their interpretation on keeping the Sabbath, told them they break Gods commands for the sake of their traditions, etc. He certainly didn’t follow much of what the Pharisaical crowd actually did

 

[NotWorthy]

That’s not true at all. Jesus did dance according to the tune of the Law even down to the letter. It means he danced to the Pharisaic tune. (Mat. 5:17-19)

Is this why the Pharisees chastised Him for healing on the Sabbath (1)? Did anybody ever wonder how far Jesus walked on a Sabbath when Peter was caught picking wheat (2). If it was over 2000 yards, if I remember correctly, this was a third Sabbath violation that Jesus, the Law dancer would have violated. Oh yeah, and eating with tax collectors and prostitutes had to have violated about a dozen Judaic Laws. Hmmm, He also touched a leper without going through the purification Laws.

No, I think Jesus danced to a different tune, my Brother!

**His followers did not claim that he was what he was not. Paul was the one who showed up about 30 years after Jesus had been gone and claimed that he was Christ, son of God, and that he had resurrected. **

Even Jews who still believe in an individual Messiah don’t believe that the Messiah will be God. Therefore, the idea is not Jewish. Since Jesus was Jewish, the idea is not true.

Ben, in your own warped way, you are absolutely right! Jesus’ Divinity was not a Jewish idea. It was God’s idea. The rest of it is “Case Closed”.

The interesting thing is that the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31 is supposed to have been established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one, and not with Gentiles. So, what does Catholicism teach to overide what the Scriptures says? The Covenant with the Gentiles was the one established with Mankind through Noah.(Gen. 9:9)

No, the Covenant of Jesus is the fulfillment of Jeremiah’s prophecy as well as the Abrahamic promise to be a light to the Gentiles. Christ is that Light! Maranatha!

 

[adrift]

Would you like me to call you a hypocrite? I don’t think so. In that case, Jesus broke the Golden Rule, of not doing unto others what we would not like they did unto us. Now, you can no longer claim that Jesus was perfect. He broke the Law.

I have meant to answer this before. The golden rule as intended The ethic of reciprocity, more commonly known as the Golden Rule, is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. Jesus was just. The rule is never broken when the truth is being spoken. If you are being a hypocrite than it is right and just to tell you so. Now if this is not so, everytime you post you break the law.

 

[adrift]

Ben, in your own warped way, you are absolutely right! Jesus’ Divinity was not a Jewish idea. It was God’s idea. The rest of it is “Case Closed”.
No, the Covenant of Jesus is the fulfillment of Jeremiah’s prophecy as well as the Abrahamic promise to be a light to the Gentiles. Christ is that Light! Maranatha!

 

[ready]

**Jews have no blinders. We don’t have a church behind pulling the strings. We are free. **

My ancestors on my father’s side were Hebrews who converted to Christianity during time of persecution. They were converted to a religion that took them from their Jewish faith to its fulfillment, Christianity. I am grateful they converted or I - out of invincible ignorance - would have in all likelihood been brought up a Jew rejecting Christ just like you do. But I don’t see why you keep rejecting him. We’ve given very good arguments in favor of his divinity. Gosh, Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies about God coming to earth and taking on human flesh and even said with his own mouth, “before Abraham was, I AM.” How much more explicit did Jesus have to be. Perhaps you are locked into too much of rigid thinking without even giving faith in Jesus a chance. I don’t mean to offend you at all, but you do seem to have a mantra-thing going on with Jesus being a Jew and thus this precludes him from being God. Who says that is true? You and rigid thinking. If a Jew can’t be God, then why did so many Jews accept Jesus as God. Either you are wrong and they are proof that you are wrong or they are - as you called them - lunatics. Your insult offends me very much because all the saints of their times and in the contemporary Church are perfectly sane. Even Mary, a Jewish woman, knew her son to be God. Thank heavens she didn’t believe that a Jew couldn’t be God and knew that it would be specifically a very Jew Himself who would be God and Saviour of the world.

 

[elvisman]

Jesus himself said that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord. Read Mark
12:29. The problem with Catholics is that they prefer to believe what the Church says and not what Jesus said.

Jesus also said the following:
John 8:58
****“I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.”

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**John 10:30). **
“I and the Father are one”

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Isaiah said this about him:** **
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Immanuel means, “God is with us”)