Is Jesus God?

[Martin_R]

After Jesus went to be with God and the people who’d met Him where preaching, wouldn’t you expect them to justify what they taught with phrases such as:

“We know this is true because we actually met God - He came round for lunch.”?

Instead they talk of meeting Jesus, not God.

e.g. Gal 1:12 For my message came by a direct revelation from *Jesus Christ *himself. No one else taught me. NLT

 

[Martin_R]

Luke 24
7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." NASB

If Jesus is God, that makes it sound like God submitted to man.

 

[NotWorthy]

Luke 24
7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." NASB

If Jesus is God, that makes it sound like God submitted to man.

It may “sound” like it, but its not the ultimate reason.

Jesus submitted to The Father by submitting to man. “Not My Will, but Yours”.

And remember, Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit when she uttered, “And who am I that the Mother of My Lord should come to me”. She had no way of knowing that Jesus was Lord, without it being revealed by the Holy Spirit.

BTW, did you just change the listing of your religion from Catholic to Protestant?

 

[Martin_R]

Another verse of interest, regarding the spirit:

John 6:63 NASB

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

 

[NotWorthy]

Another verse of interest, regarding the spirit:

John 6:63 NASB

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

And how does this pertain to the subject?

 

[zach_dunn]

Luke 24
7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." NASB

If Jesus is God, that makes it sound like God submitted to man.

Like NotWorthy said, Jesus submitted to the Father which is why He submitted to man. There is also Matthew 16:19:

Matthew 16:19
“19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus here tells Peter that whatever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven. It sounds like Jesus is submitting Himself to Peter, this is just something I’ve heard, I’d need someone more knowledgeable to comment on it.

 

[zach_dunn]

After Jesus went to be with God and the people who’d met Him where preaching, wouldn’t you expect them to justify what they taught with phrases such as:

“We know this is true because we actually met God - He came round for lunch.”?

Instead they talk of meeting Jesus, not God.

e.g. Gal 1:12 For my message came by a direct revelation from *Jesus Christ *himself. No one else taught me. NLT

A better translation clears things up:

Galatians 1:12
“12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

This verse actually undermines your position! If he wasn’t taught by man, who was he taught by? All that’s left is God.

 

[Dan_Parker]

A better translation clears things up:

Galatians 1:12
“12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

This verse actually undermines your position! If he wasn’t taught by man, who was he taught by? All that’s left is God.

Also, reading the preceding context helps.
NJB Galatians 1:1 From Paul, an apostle appointed not by human beings nor through any human being but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead,

 

[zach_dunn]

Also, reading the preceding context helps.
NJB Galatians 1:1 From Paul, an apostle appointed not by human beings nor through any human being but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead,

What are you trying to say?

 

[NotWorthy]

What are you trying to say?

I think he’s trying to agree with you. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[zach_dunn]

I think he’s trying to agree with you. Do you have a problem with that?

Not at all if he’s agreeing with me. I just thought that since he is a Jehovah’s Witness that he was not agreeing with me.

 

[NotWorthy]

Not at all if he’s agreeing with me. I just thought that since he is a Jehovah’s Witness that he was not agreeing with me.

I know, but it seems like he’s admitting that Jesus is God. Go figure!

 

[frnate]

God said He should be worshipped:
Hebrews 1
6 And then, when he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, “Let all the angels of God worship him.” NLT

Notice it says “worship him” not “worship me”.

You stopped reading too soon, go on down to verses 8 thru 10:

8 But to the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
You rule with a scepter of justice.
9 You love justice and hate evil.
Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you,
pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else.”
10 He also says to the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
and made the heavens with your hands. – NLT

Who besides God laid the foundations of the earth or made the heavens with His hands? Who besides God could?

CS Lewis answered your question rather succinctly.

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a good moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great moral teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” C. S. Lewis

Pax,
+N

 

[Dan_Parker]

What are you trying to say?

You said:

Galatians 1:12
“12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

This verse actually undermines your position! If he wasn’t taught by man, who was he taught by? All that’s left is God.

I posted:
NJB Galatians 1:1 From Paul, an apostle appointed not by human beings nor through any human being but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead,

My point is that both verses should be interpreted together. For some reason you thought that if it was not man in 1:12 that the only alternative was God, but Paul identifies the Father as God in verse 1 in the same context and distinguishes God from Jesus Christ.

In addition Paul is also saying that Jesus Christ is not a human being. Jesus Christ is not a human being and not God. What is left

 

[NotWorthy]

My point is that both verses should be interpreted together. For some reason you thought that if it was not man in 1:12 that the only alternative was God, but Paul identifies the Father as God in verse 1 in the same context and distinguishes God from Jesus Christ.

… ah, so this is what Zach meant by “What are you trying to say”.

In addition Paul is also saying that Jesus Christ is not a human being. Jesus Christ is not a human being and not God. What is left

No, Paul is saying Jesus Christ is not God the Father. Paul is saying that Jesus Christ is God the Son, as he says elsewhere. … that every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[JeanneH]

You said:

Dan
In addition Paul is also saying that Jesus Christ is not a human being. Jesus Christ is not a human being and not God. What is left

Jeanne:
What is left is that Jesus IS both God and Man. Both Divine and human.
Congratulations! Dan you have finally gotten it right.

 

[Dan_Parker]

… ah, so this is what Zach meant by “What are you trying to say”.

No, Paul is saying Jesus Christ is not God the Father. Paul is saying that Jesus Christ is God the Son, as he says elsewhere. … that every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

The term God the Son is never used by any bible writer. Please try to produce an example and you will see I am correct. As for saying Jesus is Lord, I agree, but please finish your partial citation: NJB Philippians 2:10 so that all beings in the heavens, on earth and in the underworld, should bend the knee at the name of Jesus 11 and that every tongue should acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Dan_Parker]

Dan Parker;5765154:

You said:

Dan
In addition Paul is also saying that Jesus Christ is not a human being. Jesus Christ is not a human being and not God. What is left

Jeanne:
What is left is that Jesus IS both God and Man. Both Divine and human.
Congratulations! Dan you have finally gotten it right.

If you could show that a bible writer says that Jesus is God and Man at the same time then you might have a point. However in order for you to reach that conclusion you must either accept later doctrinal development such as Chalcedon or make assumptions regarding the bible text on passages where this is not explicitly taught. No bible writer teaches that the Son was both divine and human at the same time.

That being said, could you really say along with Paul that Jesus Christ is no longer a human being?

NJB Galatians 1:1 From Paul, an apostle appointed not by human beings **nor through any **human being but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead,

 

[JeanneH]

JeanneH;5765407:

If you could show that a bible writer says that Jesus is God and Man at the same time then you might have a point. However in order for you to reach that conclusion you must either accept later doctrinal development such as Chalcedon or make assumptions regarding the bible text on passages where this is not explicitly taught. No bible writer teaches that the Son was both divine and human at the same time.

That being said, could you really say along with Paul that Jesus Christ is no longer a human being?
NJB Galatians 1:1 From Paul, an apostle appointed not by human beings **nor through any **

human being but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead,

Hi Dan.

I certainly am not on the same level with you when it comes to biblical knowledge. That being said, I think at some point it is a matter of interpretation.

I also think that every religious assembly has their own doctrinal developments.

When Jesus says that the Father and I are one I take that literally.

Jesus also has the power to forgive sins: and we know that only God has the power to forgive sins.

Jesus also says that he lays down his life on his own and he will take it up again.John 10:17 How can he do this if he is not God? Only God can give life…

Now these are just my thoughts here. When Jesus was with God in heaven before he was incarnated he was divine and when he was born unto Mary he became human. Jesus never lost His divinity here on earth but it was veiled. Even Jesus says that only God the Father knows when the end will come. Jesus in his humanity does not.

DRB Gal1:1 Paul, an apostle,not from men,neither by man,but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead…

I think Paul is saying that it wasn’t from him who was only a man, but from Jesus Christ who was both God and man.

Jeanne

 

[NotWorthy]

The term God the Son is never used by any bible writer. Please try to produce an example and you will see I am correct. As for saying Jesus is Lord, I agree, but please finish your partial citation: NJB Philippians 2:10 so that all beings in the heavens, on earth and in the underworld, should bend the knee at the name of Jesus 11 and that every tongue should acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And how does that differentiate? Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of the Father? Does that make Jesus “less than Lord”?!?