Is Jesus God?

[Martin_R]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

Yes. Full God and Full Man.

If you don’t believe in Christ’s divinity you are not Christian.

James

 

[Michael_Francis]

Then you have a real serious problem.

Even the Jews of His day knew that Jesus claimed to be God.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one. 31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father; for which of these works do you stone me? 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God.

 

[Church_Militant]

Then you have a real serious problem.

Even the Jews of His day knew that Jesus claimed to be God.

John 10:30 I and the Father are one. 31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father; for which of these works do you stone me? 33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God.

 

[mchale]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

What are we suppose to discuss? All you have done is state your belief… there is nothing to discuss. Now if you care to state your reasons for denying Jesus’s divinity, we might have a discussion.

–
Bill

 

[MDK]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

If you don’t believe Jesus is God, then don’t dare call yourself a Christian. Christians believe that Jesus is God. Like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, sadly, you are not a Christian either.

 

[Doxiemom]

This is why we call protestants our brethren: because we all believe in the divinity of Christ.

Please, please, please, re-examine this error on your part. You are heading down the wrong road.

Some have put forth that this is the blasphemy of the holy Spirit which is the one unforgiveable sin.

 

[murtad]

If you don’t believe Jesus is God, then don’t dare call yourself a Christian. Christians believe that Jesus is God. Like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, sadly, you are not a Christian either.

Assyrian Church of the East supreme leader His Holiness Mar Dinkha IV does not believe Jesus is God The Word, and he himself confessed this to Pope John Paul II at Vatican City: “I believe the Second Qnuma of the Holy Trinity, the eternal Word cannot be crucified or incarnated, as He is immortal. The immortal cannot be subject to death as he cannot become man. I believe there are two Qnume in Messiah, the Word and Jesus. Each Qnume has his own Kyana. On Good Friday, the uncreated Word did not die but the created Jesus died”.

This heresy is called Nestorianism and Assyrians such as Mar Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrrhus held that Messiah is one “person” in two “natures”, who are the immortal Word and the mortal Jesus. By “person”, they really mean “mask”, and by “natures” they really mean “person”.

The Vatican however recognises Assyrian sacraments as valid and refers these Nestorians as “seperated brethren”.

 

[mchale]

Assyrian Church of the East supreme leader His Holiness Mar Dinkha IV does not believe Jesus is God The Word, and he himself confessed this to Pope John Paul II at Vatican City: “I believe the Second Qnuma of the Holy Trinity, the eternal Word cannot be crucified or incarnated, as He is immortal. The immortal cannot be subject to death as he cannot become man. I believe there are two Qnume in Messiah, the Word and Jesus. Each Qnume has his own Kyana. On Good Friday, the uncreated Word did not die but the created Jesus died”.

This heresy is called Nestorianism and Assyrians such as Mar Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrrhus held that Messiah is one “person” in two “natures”, who are the immortal Word and the mortal Jesus. By “person”, they really mean “mask”, and by “natures” they really mean “person”.

The Vatican however recognises Assyrian sacraments as valid and refers these Nestorians as “seperated brethren”.

Yep, you are right about the position of the Assyrian Orthodox and Nestorians in general. However, their position is very nuanced. I would also be very careful about saying that when they say person they mean mask and by nature they mean person. When they refer to two natures, they are using the same language a Catholic Theologian would. Jesus did have two natures, one created and human and the other uncreated and divine. Where we differ from them is how the two natures existed together. We believe that the two natures were joined together into a hypostatic union in the one person of Jesus.

Now I am not even certain I understand the exact difference myself. Both the Nestorians and Catholics would agree that the two natures were united in purpose and I believe would agree that they were united in thought as well (i.e., there were no debates between the two natures).

In any case, we recognize their sacrements because they have valid apostolic succession. As long as apostolic succession is maintained, their sacrements are valid.

–
Bill

 

[MDK]

Assyrian Church of the East supreme leader His Holiness Mar Dinkha IV does not believe Jesus is God The Word, and he himself confessed this to Pope John Paul II at Vatican City: “I believe the Second Qnuma of the Holy Trinity, the eternal Word cannot be crucified or incarnated, as He is immortal. The immortal cannot be subject to death as he cannot become man. I believe there are two Qnume in Messiah, the Word and Jesus. Each Qnume has his own Kyana. On Good Friday, the uncreated Word did not die but the created Jesus died”.

This heresy is called Nestorianism and Assyrians such as Mar Theodoret, Bishop of Cyrrhus held that Messiah is one “person” in two “natures”, who are the immortal Word and the mortal Jesus. By “person”, they really mean “mask”, and by “natures” they really mean “person”.

The Vatican however recognises Assyrian sacraments as valid and refers these Nestorians as “seperated brethren”.

Murtad,
Thanks for the response. You are not at the truth yet, and I think you misunderstand the position. You can’t deny the divinity of Christ and still be a real Christian. Separated brethren is a very loose and far reaching term. The phrase in no way means that the person is anywhere close to authentic Christianity found only on the Catholic Church. This is the only Church that God made, and is Head of His Church… and it is the Catholic Church with the holder of the office of Peter as the visible head while the King is on His Throne in Heaven.

From the m of the Assyrian Church of the Easts:

Section 9, item 9:
"Why is it that Jesus the Christ is called “The Lord”?

“He is called “Lord” because He is God.”

Section 9, item 10:
“What does the Holy Book say is The Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God?”

“In the Beginning was The Word and The Word was with God; and The Word was God.” (John 1:1)

**So, it’s very clear their catechism teaches that Jesus is God. **

In another example, you must know that God did not make Islam. Islam is another false man made religion based on a man’s word, but not God’s. Mohammad shamelessly stole from and distorted Christianity to make his false “religion.” Islam obviously is not Christian either.

Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Divinity of Christ, and are not Christians.

It’s not simply a label, though. You can call yourself whatever you want. There are people who consider themselves as formal members of God’s one Church (the Catholic Church), who are not authentic Christians, and there are others worse off whose beliefs are not compatible with generic Christianity.

 

[zach_dunn]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

Any support for your belief? I don’t see how anyone that follows Jesus (or rather, think they do) can claim that He isn’t God, especially when He Himself does. Do you think Jesus is a liar or a nut? I doubt it, so believe in Him and believe that He is God.

Pax,
Zach

 

[mchale]

The original poster hasn’t posted since his original post more than a day ago. This seems like someone who is trolling…

Until he actually replies to our questions, I don’t think there is much virtue in continuing this thread.

–
Bill

 

[StrawberryJam]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

So who is he then?

 

[Martin_R]

So who is he then?

The Son of God - like He said.
But not God the Son - a phrase that is not in the Bible.
Holy? Yes. But not God.

God also said it was not HIm:

Luke 9:35
Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”(NLT)

not

“This is me in bodily form, listen to me”.

Sorry for the delay in posting, I’m very busy but do have plenty more to add.

 

[Martin_R]

I should also have said that I started this new thread as another one about Mary was going off topic.

 

[TheQuestioner]

The Son of God - like He said.
But not God the Son - a phrase that is not in the Bible.
Holy? Yes. But not God.

God also said it was not HIm:

Luke 9:35
Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”(NLT)

not

“This is me in bodily form, listen to me”.

Sorry for the delay in posting, I’m very busy but do have plenty more to add.

ahhh and thus we see the fruits of sola scriptura. Here. John 20 (NIV)

**Jesus Appears to Thomas **

24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” 26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28Thomas said to him, **“My Lord and my God!” **
29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Don’t worry. I used to be like the Arians at one point, but this passage below shook me out of my stubborness and I could no longer shut my eyes and ears and heart to the truth.

John 1 (NIV)

John 1

**The Word Became Flesh **

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understooda] it.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,e]f]who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

 

[MDK]

The Son of God - like He said.
But not God the Son - a phrase that is not in the Bible.
Holy? Yes. But not God.

God also said it was not HIm:

Luke 9:35
Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”(NLT)

not

“This is me in bodily form, listen to me”.

Sorry for the delay in posting, I’m very busy but do have plenty more to add.

This illustrates once again the dangers of creating your own religion from our Catholic Book, the Bible. If you don’t believe Jesus is God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, then don’t call yourself a Christian.

To start to become a Christian, how about considering when Christ said “Before Abraham was, I am.” How could that be, unless He was God? Do you know who is the “I am?”

Next, look at John 1 "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Jesus is the Word made flesh. This passage is all about Jesus.

It is extreme ignorance or willful disobedeince not to believe Jesus is God.

 

[upright]

I’ve started this thread to discuss the idea that Jesus is God. I don’t think so and no, I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness.

Hi:

Here’s my little contribution offering biblical proofs of the divinity of Christ.

First He has all the attributes of God the Father: He is same with the
Father (Jn 14:9-11), He and the Father are one (Jn 10:30), He is in the
Father and The Father in Him (Jn 17:21).

Jesus has the same glory as the Father (Jn 17:5) and since only God
can have the same glory as God, He is God.

As God, He forgave the sins of many (Mt 9:2,6; Lk 7:42-48) and He gave
his apostles the power to forgive sins too ((Jn 20:23)

As God, He is Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8).

The Jews once took up stones to throw at Jesus and He demanded why
they were intent on stoning Him, they replied:

“Because, you being a man make yourself God.” (Jn 10:33). Jesus
knowing how serious a charge of divine impersonation was did not deny
the charge; meaning that He is God.

Now if we go by the injunction to worship only God (Ex 20:3-5; Mt 4:10;
Rev 19:10), then Jesus is God since He was worshiped a good number
of times. He was worshipped by the three wise men from the East (Mt 2:2,19),
by the man who was blind from birth whom He healed by mixing His spittle
with sand (Jn 9:38), by the apostles after Peter nearly sank in the water (Mt 14:33).

Now there are numerous instances where Jesus is called God (Jn 1:1-2;
Rom 9:5; Tit 2:5; Jn 20:28)

Hope these are enough evidence that Jesus Christ is Lord and God.

God bless us all.

 

[MDK]

Luke 9:35
Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”(NLT)

not

“This is me in bodily form, listen to me”.

Sorry for the delay in posting, I’m very busy but do have plenty more to add.

Jesus is not simply the Father in bodily form. Jesus is a distinct Person. He is one of Three Persons of the Holy Trinity, a consubstantiation, a union and communion of Persons. God is indeed One in three Divine Persons.

If you love God, you would be busy finding the truth about Him. Please don’t post another word here of ignorant blasphemy regarding Christ. Please spend this time learning the truth instead… but, not from yourself. We already see how that turns out. Learn from those who Christ sent to continue His mission, who are the Pope and Bishops in union with the Pope. No one has ever been led astray by the official teachings of the Catholic Church. No one ever will. It is by men’s own pride and arrogance that they choose their own word over God’s word, as you have sadly done.

To call Jesus only a man and not God, is to blaspheme. Stop blaspheming!

 

[mchale]

The Son of God - like He said.
But not God the Son - a phrase that is not in the Bible.
Holy? Yes. But not God.

The phrase is not in the Gospels per say, but it can be inferred. Consider the prologue to the Gospel of John (already referenced by others). It equates Jesus with the Word and the Word it says was both with God and was God.

Also, if Jesus was not God, that leaves us two basic alternatives:

1. Jesus was simply a man, maybe a prophet. I think, if we are looking at the Bible we can reject this alternative. After all, being that God himself is his father, then it seems unlikely that he can simply be a man. Also it is hard to see what purpose the crucifixtion would have if only a man died on the Cross.
2. Jesus is neither God nor man but something inbetween. This idea, essentially arianism, has been around since the Early Church. The problem is, then what is Jesus precisely? He is not an angel, for an angel isn’t mortal. We already ruled out him being just a human. All that leaves us is that he is divine in some sense, but not God… so a lesser god? But this contradicts the basic idea that there is not god but God that has been firmly in the Judeo-Christian Tradition since at least the time of Moses.

God also said it was not HIm:

Luke 9:35
Then a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to him.”(NLT)

not

“This is me in bodily form, listen to me”.

This is the Father referring to the Son. It doesn’t mean that Jesus wasn’t God. This is akin to denying that my hand is part of me because I say “This is my hand” as opposed to saying “This hand is part of me”

–
Bill