Is Jesus God?

[NotWorthy]

So, do you agree that Jesus is called ANGELOS at Gal 4:14?DRA Galatians 4:14 You despised not, nor rejected: but received me **as **an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Well yes, I thought I already agreed.

Here’s what I’ve found so far in my notes: *the Greek word angelos means messenger and was also a term designated for prophets

*Appended: I got this from AgapeBibleStudy.Com

The word translated “angel,” is from the Greek angelos, meaning “messenger” (*malak *in Hebrew). An angel is a spiritual being sent from the heavenly court as God’s personal messenger. Prophets are also called God’s messengers (i.e., Haggai 1:13; Malachi 2:7; 3:1). God’s messengers, whether spiritual or human, are treated as those who bear the authority of God. The Angel of Yahweh is a mysterious figure in Sacred Scripture. Some associate the Angel of Yahweh with the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, active in God plan of salvation history prior to the Incarnation. He is powerful and yet he is never identified as an Archangel (1 Thes 4:16; Jude 9). It is the Angel of Yahweh who greets Moses from the burning bush (Ex 3:2), he is responsible for leading the people of Israel to the Promised Land (Ex 14:19), he directs prophets (1 Kgs 19:7-8; 2 Kgs 1:3), he delivers judgment against Israel’s enemies (2 Kgs 19:35; 2 Chr 32:21-22), and against Israel and her kings when they fail (1 Chr 21:16), and he protects the righteous (Ps 34:7; 35:5-6).

And further on:

in Greek the word messenger is *‘angelos’*; in Hebrew, *‘mal’ak.’ * Both terms are used to describe Biblical prophets in the Old and New Testaments (see 2 Chron. 36:15-16 *“**Yahweh, God of their ancestors, continuously sent them word through his messengers because He felt sorry for His people and his dwelling, but they ridiculed the messengers of God, they despised His words, they laughed at His prophets***…”;  Hag. 1:13 *“**Haggai, the messenger of Yahweh, then passed on Yahweh’s message to the people***,..”; Mal. 3:1 as quoted by Jesus in Matthew 11:9-10 speaking of John the Baptist: *“**Then what did you go out for?  To see a prophet? Yes, I tell you, and much more than a prophet:  he is the one of whom scripture says: ‘Look, I shall send my messenger to clear a way before Me***.’”; Luke 7:24 *“**And when John’s messengers*** (angelos) ***had gone He***(Jesus) ***began to talk to the people about John****...”*; and Luke 9:51-52 *“**Now it happened that as the time drew near for Him to be taken up, He*** (Jesus)* **resolutely turned His face towards Jerusalem and sent messengers*** (angelos)*  **ahead of Him***.”).

 

[Dan_Parker]

Well yes, I thought I already agreed.

Here’s what I’ve found so far in my notes: *the Greek word angelos means messenger and was also a term designated for prophets

*Appended: I got this from AgapeBibleStudy.Com
**

Remember when I said that many consider a spirit to be an angel and a human to be a messenger? From your quote:
An angel is a spiritual being sent from the heavenly court as God’s personal messenger.

Messenger has the connotation of a function, but angel has the connotation of a category of being who also functions as a messenger, but a spirit creature.

So all angels are messengers, but not all messengers are angels. A subtle distinction.

 

[NotWorthy]

Remember when I said that many consider a spirit to be an angel and a human to be a messenger? From your quote: An angel is a spiritual being sent from the heavenly court as God’s personal messenger. Messenger has the connotation of a function, but angel has the connotation of a category of being who also functions as a messenger, but a spirit creature.

So all angels are messengers, but not all messengers are angels. A subtle distinction.

I’m not sure if you saw, but I appended my previous post a third time to indicate places in Scripture where Angelos was used for prophets in the Old Testament and the New.

 

[Dan_Parker]

I’m not sure if you saw, but I appended my previous post a third time to indicate places in Scripture where Angelos was used for prophets in the Old Testament and the New.

Yes, ANGELOS in Greek and Malak in Hebrew is rendered “angel” normally when the messenger is a spirit being and “messenger” when the messenger is a human being.

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, ANGELOS in Greek and Malak in Hebrew is rendered “angel” normally when the messenger is a spirit being and “messenger” when the messenger is a human being.

But as you can see in my quotes, “angelos” was also used to describe people, not just spirits.

 

[Dan_Parker]

But as you can see in my quotes, “angelos” was also used to describe people, not just spirits.

Yes, ANGELOS is the Greek word which is translated as “angel” when it refers to a spirit creature and “messenger” when it refers to a human being. The distinction is one in the English rendering, not the Greek.

That is why your first quote mentions spirit being.
An **angel is a spiritual being **sent from the heavenly court as God’s personal messenger.

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, ANGELOS is the Greek word which is translated as “angel” when it refers to a spirit creature and “messenger” when it refers to a human being. The distinction is one in the English rendering, not the Greek.

That is why your first quote mentions spirit being.An **angel is a spiritual being **sent from the heavenly court as God’s personal messenger.

So, what’s the point? The Greeks called prophets and angels “Angelos”. Jesus, being prophet (man) and God (spiritual being), would be the ultimate “Angelos” in my mind.

 

[Dan_Parker]

So, what’s the point? The Greeks called prophets and angels “Angelos”. Jesus, being prophet (man) and God (spiritual being), would be the ultimate “Angelos” in my mind.

God is the ultimate spirit being, but God is not ever sent by anyone as he does the sending. If the Son is sent as the messenger of God and “angel” refers to his being and appearance, that does have implications for our understanding of the current nature of the Son. Paul saw Christ after he had ascended to heaven and it blinded him. He is one of the few human beings who has seen Christ in this state.

 

[NotWorthy]

God is the ultimate spirit being, but God is not ever sent by anyone as he does the sending. If the Son is sent as the messenger of God and “angel” refers to his being and appearance, that does have implications for our understanding of the current nature of the Son. Paul saw Christ after he had ascended to heaven and it blinded him. He is one of the few human beings who has seen Christ in this state.

Peter, James, and John saw Jesus in this state, didn’t they?

But “angel” doesn’t refer to his appearance. Angel is simply the translation of the word Angelos.

 

[Dan_Parker]

Peter, James, and John saw Jesus in this state, didn’t they?

Dan:
You mean the vision at the transfiguration?

But “angel” doesn’t refer to his appearance. Angel is simply the translation of the word Angelos.

Dan:
So when Theos is rendered God it is simply the translation of the word theos and has no significance?

 

[NotWorthy]

Dan:
You mean the vision at the transfiguration?

Yes, Jesus revealed Himself in all His glory at the Transfiguration.
Dan Parker:

Dan:
So when Theos is rendered God it is simply the translation of the word theos and has no significance?

No, I’m simply saying that Angelos means messenger from God. Sometimes the translators used the word “angel” and sometimes they used the word “prophets” (or something similar). I’m not sure where “Theos” is paralleled, but I have no clue where it is used in the Bible. (It’s all Greek to me ).

 

[placido]

Luke 24
7 saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." NASB

If Jesus is God, that makes it sound like God submitted to man.

If Jesus is a mere man, then Christianity is a MAN-MADE religion.

placido

 

[Tomster]

If Jesus is a mere man, then Christianity is a MAN-MADE religion.

placido

Indeed.

catholic.com/library/Are_They_Awake_on_the_Watchtower.asp

 

[Martin_R]

If Jesus is a mere man, then Christianity is a MAN-MADE religion.

placido

No, Jesus was sent by God so we could know about Him (God’s Son) and His Father the** only** true God:

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. NASB

 

[Martin_R]

Jesus said God is spirit and made a point of showing He was not:

John 4:24
“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:39
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

NASB

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus said God is spirit and made a point of showing He was not:

John 4:24
“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Luke 24:39
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

NASB

You’re funny, Martin. Totally different context.

Jesus is trying to show that He truly rose from the dead and is not merely a ghost.

 

[Dan_Parker]

You’re funny, Martin. Totally different context.

Jesus is trying to show that He truly rose from the dead and is not merely a ghost.

Here is one which shows Christians will appear as does God because after they are resurrected they will be like him, they will be spirits as well.

NAB 1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
.

 

[NotWorthy]

Here is one which shows Christians will appear as does God because after they are resurrected they will be like him, they will be spirits as well.
NAB 1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
.

Where does “**we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” **mean that we will appear as Him?

Regarding spirit-ness, we will be “spirits” (for lack of a better term) until the 2nd Coming, where we will be reunited with our Glorified Bodies, as Jesus was after His Resurrection.

 

[Dan_Parker]

Where does “**we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” **mean that we will appear as Him?

Regarding spirit-ness, we will be “spirits” (for lack of a better term) until the 2nd Coming, where we will be reunited with our Glorified Bodies, as Jesus was after His Resurrection.

That’s a very clever solution, but it stretches credulity that John is speaking of an interim condition of souls without spirits!

The context strongly indicates that the identification as being called God’s children will be realized in full once they are resurrected in heaven and become his children in every sense of the word. To then change again by having a body added is entirely foreign to the context. Otherwise this privilege that John discusses, the being like God, will not be a permanent condition.

NJB 1 John 3:2 My dear friends, we are already God’s children, but what we shall be in the future has not yet been revealed. We are well aware that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he really is.

 

[NotWorthy]

That’s a very clever solution, but it stretches credulity that John is speaking of an interim condition of souls without spirits!

When did I say that there are “souls without spirits”? I don’t understand. Our souls, without our bodies, are pure spirits.

The context strongly indicates that the identification as being called God’s children will be realized in full once they are resurrected in heaven and become his children in every sense of the word. To then change again by having a body added is entirely foreign to the context. Otherwise this privilege that John discusses, the being like God, will not be a permanent condition.

NJB 1 John 3:2 My dear friends, we are already God’s children, but what we shall be in the future has not yet been revealed. We are well aware that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he really is.

As I see it, the underlined point is exactly what I was talking about. “When he appears (at His second Coming) we shall be like him (we shall be reunited with our resurrected bodies), because we shall see him as he really is (the way the Apostles saw him at the Transfiguration).”