Is Jesus God?

[Holly3278]

Yes, Jesus is most certainly God. There are numerous evidences for this, including Scripture and Sacred Tradition. I will start with Scripture:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1 RSV)

The Word is Jesus and we see here that the Word is God.

This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.
(John 5:18 RSV)

Here we see that Jesus made Himself equal to God.

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
(John 8:58 RSV)

“I Am” is the name of God. Jesus called Himself this which proves that He is God.

Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”
(John 20:26-29 RSV)

Here we see that Thomas exlaims to Jesus that He is his Lord and God. Jesus approves of this and says that those who believe this and have not seen Him are blessed.

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
(Philippians 2:5-8 RSV)

Again we see that Jesus is God.

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
(Colossians 1:15-20 RSV)

Again we see that Jesus is God in Colossians.

For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily, and you have come to fulness of life in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
(Colossians 2:9-10 RSV)

Again, the author of Colossians says that Jesus is God.

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men, training us to renounce irreligion and worldly passions, and to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world, awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good deeds.
(Titus 2:11-14 RSV)

Finally we see that Jesus is our great God and Savior.

 

[Holly3278]

And now for Sacred Tradition:

“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (*Letter to the Ephesians *1 [A.D. 110]). - Ignatius of Antioch

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid.,18:2). - Ignatius of Antioch

“[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (*Letter to the Romans *1 [A.D. 110]). - Ignatius of Antioch

“We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (*Address to the Greeks *21 [A.D. 170]). - Tatian the Syrian

“It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages” (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s *The Guide *13 [A.D. 177]). - Melito of Sardis

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth . . . " (*Against Heresies *1:10:1 [A.D. 189]). - Irenaeus

“The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things” (*Exhortation to the Greeks *1:7:1 [A.D. 190]). - Clement of Alexandria

There are more from the Early Church Fathers here:

catholic.com/library/Divinity_of_Christ.asp

 

[Fink]

Since your last post, others have put up answers; but let`s have another go, anyway.

Still not clear to me, please correct me if wrong. As I said, I do understand God the Father and God the Son and have no trouble separating them. My difficulty lies in separating God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as Their essence seems to be the SAME, Spirit.

Follow me on my perspective?

I understand the Trinity to be three distinct persons*** from One God***, I can easily separate these Persons of the Father and Son. But the Holy Spirit just seems like another description of God the Father to me.

It`d be better to say: “…IN One God.”

The closes I can come to separating them is as follow and correct me if I’m wrong. Please forgive any gnostic sounding terms.

God the Father can be considered as the ***First Principal ***[True: as long as it`s spelt "Princip[/COLOR]le".], or that which no one can ever know or understand, accept the Holy Spirit.[No]

It is through the Holy Spirit that God makes Himself Known. Holy Spirit being the Action of God, or manifestation needed to make Himself Known.

True. “He has spoken through the prophets”: Nicene Creed.

So in a sense, the Holy Spirit is the Second Principal of God, or manifestation. God the Son Being the third Principal or manifestation of God.

No: it`s the other way around.

To try to avoid confusion, i`ll use upper case “S” only when referring to the Holy Spirit.

The essence or nature of God the Father is spirit. Spirit does not possess any physical substance; and so, doesn`t occupy space. [The angels and our own souls are the same. They consist of “only” intellect and will.] His essence/nature is utterly simple: cannot be divided. Immortal. Eternal.

God the Father is perfect, infinite, eternal.
God the Father possesses the fullness of the Godhead.
God the Father knows Himself perfectly, infinitely, eternally.
There is NOTHING about Himself which He does not know.
Everything that God the Father is is contained in His Selfknowledge (which includes WISDOM).
God the Father`s Selfknowledge is God the Son.
God the Son possesses the fullness of the Godhead because
He possesses everything that the Father is.
God the Father GENERATES God the Son IN ETERNITY.
God the Son is the Image of the Father.
God the Son is literally God, but not a separate God, because He relies on the Father for His existence. So,
God the Son cannot exist without God the Father; and,
God the Father cannot exist without His Selfknowledge.

An analogy:
We generate thoughts which cant exist independently of ourselves; and, We cant exist without generating thoughts… unless we`re dead or vegies!

The Prelude to Saint John`s Gospel:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Sone translations say: “…and God was the Word.” That makes it more definite.

The word “Word” comes from the Greek “logos” which means a thought or an idea: ie God the Father`s “idea” of Himself
The Nicene Creed:
God from God, Light from LIght, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made.
“…of one Being…” means the same essence/nature.

---

Between the Father and the Son, there is a perfect, infinite, eternal union. TOTAL. It CANNOT be broken: the two Persons CANNOT be separated. It`s a perfect, infinite, eternal union of Self-giving Love: from the Father to the Son, and from the Son to the Father.
Each gives Himself TOTALLY, so the Love contains all that the Father is, and all that the Son is: ie the FULLNESS of the Godhead.
That Love is the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not a separate God because He “depends” on the Father and the Son for His existence.
Father and Son cannot exist without breathing the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is uncreated, just like the Son.

The Nicene Creed, using the new translation:
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father AND the Son.
With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.

God the Father GENERATES God the Son in eternity.
The Father and the Son BREATHE or SPIRATE the Holy Spirit in eternity.

There is one divine will.

Remember, again (!) that God doesnt exist in Space (or Time), so theres no problem of how can the three Persons occupy the same space; and there`s no mathematical problem of how can 1 = 3, and 3 = 1.

---

If you can spare the cash, a good book would be “Theology and Sanity” by Frank Sheed, published by Ignatius Press. It devotes more than 30 pages to the Doctrine of the Blessed Trinity.!

Take a dive into this:
thesumma.info/reality/index.php

… the holy spirit in lower case, the apostles where filled with holy spirit, the gift of holy spirit. If that is not the Holy Spirit, the Second psrt THIRD

Person] of the Trinity, why is it not in caps in some readings?
Not being in caps sounds like something the Jehovah Witnesses would do, seeing they regard the Holy Spirit as being only "Jehovah Gods" IMPERSONAL force. The same with "filled with holy spirit", rather than "filled with **T**he **H**oly **S**pirit". If you read anything from a "New World Translation" (ie JW translation) be wary. Its full of error.
Any good Bible translation would always use caps!

---

This has turned into a monster.
#@%$&# 6,000 character limit!
To be continued.

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Hello again Fink! Good work!

God is love, Jesus, the Word is the Beloved and the love between them is the Holy Spirit.
God is Spirit & Love
God does not depend on creation for love or He would not be God & you couldn’t call Him LOVE. His Love existed prior to creation BUT He Loved the Word and the love between them is the Holy Spirit.

Deut 6:4 the Schema says “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
The word for one is 'echad rather a unity in one (similar to one bunch of grapes)
The word for a solitary one is 'yachid or one grape
This hints at a plural “the Lord our God is one Lord.” see Eph 4:5; Matt 11:25, II Cor 3:17;

Jesus the Word became a man at the Incarnation but existed in the beginning as the Word and the Beloved. The Holy Spirit has existed from all eternity as well as Jesus & the Father. Trinity comes from Tri-unity.

Genesis “let us make man in our image”
ch 1 “A MIGHTY WIND SWEPT OVER THE WATERS”

The Holy Spirit or the Paraclete is God’s Spirit, having God’s attributes.
The nature of the tri unity is divine
Jesus is the God-man. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
the Holy Spirit is a distinct person proceeds from the Father and sent by the Son Heb 9:14, I Cor 2:10, PS 139:7 Acts 5:1-4 Is 44:24, Job 33:4, Ps 104:30 Mal 2:10; Ex 17:2 & Heb 3:9; Jer 31:33 & Hebrews 10:15-16

Early Church Fathers: See Tertullian "Against Praxeas [post A.D. 213]
The Tome of Damacus (Pope St. Damacus I [A.D. 382] etc.

Get Wm A. Jurgens “The Faith of the Early Fathers” 3 volumes. FABULOUS RESOURCE!!!

 

[Fink]

Hello again Fink! Good work!

God is love, Jesus, the Word is the Beloved and the love between them is the Holy Spirit.
God is Spirit & Love
God does not depend on creation for love or He would not be God & you couldn’t call Him LOVE. His Love existed prior to creation BUT He Loved the Word and the love between them is the Holy Spirit…

Get Wm A. Jurgens “The Faith of the Early Fathers” 3 volumes. FABULOUS RESOURCE!!!

And a big hello to you, too!
i,ve got Jurgens: as you say:** FAB!**

These two links lead to some good stuff…and it`s free:
katapi.org.uk/TandS/ShortContents.html

thesumma.info/reality/index.php

Both books can be purchased: i prefer to read from a page than from a screen.

On the back cover of the 1978 Ignatius Press edition of Theology an Sanity:

Of Sheed`s many books, this is my favourite, not just because it includes the clearest explanation of the Trinity ever put on paper, but because it proves that only the Catholic view of reality can satisfy our mental hunger. - Karl Keating !]

There`s no promo material on the back cover of Reality; but the publisher is Ex Fontibus Company.

 

[JesuisSean]

True Bible Codes, as depicted within the Pantocrator picture above,
are based upon digits or numbers ( Right Hand ), Gematria,
and also the ELS or equally spaced letters ( Left Hand ).



The English Gematria of today, produces
the numerical value of ( 906 ) when concerning the name “JESUS CHRIST”,
and also the value of ( 156 ) in when concerning the name “GOD”.

The Greek Gematria of Christ’s day, produces
the numerical value of ( 888 ) when concerning the name “JESUS” in Greek.

Search the New Testament of the KJV Bible for the letters that appear within the
Pantocrator painting, and proceed with the the ELS ranges set as shown above.

In each case, the number ( 888 ) appears. Thus we see the following connections.

“JESUS CHRIST” points to “JESUS”
“JESUS CHRIST”, and the one “GOD”, point to “JESUS”
The one “GOD” points to “JESUS”

There does seem to be a connection!

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Frank & Maisie: 2 AWESOME WARRIORS

Bought the complete Summa Theologicae 25 years ago - INCOMPARABLE.
THE DUMB OX: ONE OF THE MOST BRILLIANT MINDS EVER - this is INDISPUTABLE
love St. Thomas Aquinas’ text of “Panis Angelicus”; so lush, so heavenly- so far ahead of it’s time. Better yet: timeless.

Singing theology - adds dimension to the text; places it on an altogether different plane! Merges the head with the heart! A dear elderly friend of mine (whose brother was a Jesuit) frequently reminded me “He/She who sings, prays twice” We can get so clinical, dry, hot-headed about theology. But add music & transform it. Sometimes beauty is the only way we can get to someone’s heart & melt it. Beauty = one of the 4 transcendentals. “Beautiful Savior, King of Creation…” the arts, stained glass & hymns still teach us our theology, about Christ, etc.

 

[Fink]

Frank & Maisie: 2 AWESOME WARRIORS

Bought the complete Summa Theologicae 25 years ago - INCOMPARABLE.
THE DUMB OX: ONE OF THE MOST BRILLIANT MINDS EVER - this is INDISPUTABLE

Ouch! You`re** REALLY **on fire!

No wonder he`s the Number One Doctor. We Catholics are truly blessed; but. reading the Summa raw would be way over my head…

love St. Thomas Aquinas’ text of*** “Panis Angelicus”; so lush, so heavenly- so far ahead of it’s time. Better yet: timeless.***

Shows what happens when the soul become transparent, and transmits God`s beauty.
i like to think of the soul as a lens: the cleaner the lens, the more light it transmits.
If trying to focus the sun, a badly soiled lens can heat up to the point where it cracks, or even shatters. Now useless!
A clean lens remains cool, and does its God-willed job.

Singing theology - adds dimension to the text; places it on an altogether different plane! Merges the head with the heart! A dear elderly friend of mine (whose brother was a Jesuit) frequently reminded me “He/She who sings, prays twice”

Most Sundays, i go to an FSSP-celebrated Solemn High Mass. The “Asperges me” sends vibes up and down my spine. Accompanied by a pipe organ, played by a young lady who really knows what she`s doing.

We can get so clinical, dry, hot-headed about theology. But add music & transform it. Sometimes beauty is the only way we can get to someone’s heart & melt it. Beauty = one of the 4 transcendentals. “Beautiful Savior, King of Creation…” the arts, stained glass & hymns still teach us our theology, about Christ, etc.

And in earlier days, thats exactly what church interiors did! In the days before everyone could read, what better way was there to teach? Sight and sound! Look at the Byzantine artwork, Michaelangelos Pieta, ad [almost] infinitum…labours of Faith and Love.
Thanks be to God…and Pope Benedict, beauty is making a comeback.

Youve probably seen this; but **JUST** in case you havent:
neu.gloria.tv?media=156829

Notice what Father Phillips says about the new floor…

 

[Pepband_Mom]

FINK, THAT WAS FAB!!! THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!

I recognize Mozart’s Laudate Dominum, Regina Coeli, Jesus Christ is risen today, Lacrimosa from the Mozart Requiem, plus a couple others I have done about 1/2 the music in that segment. Most all of it = soprano heaven!..

A BIG POINT to non- Catholics; OUR WORSHIP INVOLVES ALL THE SENSES!
see Beauty of the MASS. speak Scripture, sing Scripture & Praise. A “Still, small voice” can take you places. We smell incense (See the Book of Revelation), Cross ourselves with our hands, Kneel etc so the whole body is used in worship, we listen to the WORD & MUSIC, SPEAK, TASTE & SEE!

EATING

OT Eating LOSES SALVATION (Adam & Eve, the fall) as in GENESIS, brings about death, SEPARATION from GOD. They disobeyed and sinned.

NT Eating GAINS SALVATION (Bread of LIFE which is real food) as in the Gospels, brings UNION with GOD/MAN, CHRIST JESUS.

GOD gives LIFE; JESUS’ EUCHARIST gives LIFE (no Eucharist, no life)

Slaughter the LAMB, (PASSOVER/PASCAL/PASCHE) sprinkle his BLOOD on the DOORPOST & LINTEL (fore-runner of the cross), roast the LAMB, EAT the LAMB (forerunner of the Eucharist) or your FIRSTBORN would DIE

According to OT Scripture, Passover Lamb NOT “SYMBOLIC”, neither is the NT BREAD of LIFE, which is infinitely more powerful SACRIFICIAL LAMB.

DEATH by

1. eating of the TREE of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (GENESIS)
2. Not eating the PASSOVER LAMB
3. Not eating the BREAD of LIFE- “you shall not have life in you” for “I AM the Way, the TRUTH and the LIFE”